So here is my question (Offense and Taylor)

[MAJBobby]

Let me ask the question here.

 

In a QB starved league what NFL Team ever lets a Legit QB walk out the door without compensation (that doesnt have an INJ issue)?

[jms62]

Yep you will continue to say it again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again.

Since you come here over and over I figure 136 points. 36 for the running TDs and 100 for extending drives with his legs and his avoiding sacks. PROVE OTHERWISE?

[MAJBobby]

Since you come here over and over I figure 136 points. 36 for the running TDs and 100 for extending drives with his legs and his avoiding sacks. PROVE OTHERWISE?

Nah dont have to because i cant remember the site that shows that advanced stat. Just asked everyone that uses him to justify scoring to post the site because obviously they see it somewhere. Maybe not and just say things like Baltimore offered more money to TT to be a BU

[jms62]

Nah dont have to because i cant remember the site that shows that advanced stat. Just asked everyone that uses him to justify scoring to post the site because obviously they see it somewhere. Maybe not and just say things like Baltimore offered more money to TT to be a BU

136 points get back to me when you prove otherwise and that is me being my usual ultra conserative self

[Kirby Jackson]

Thoughts on Victor Cruz?

Could be a nice "buy low" option.

How do the great teams solve Defense issues?? They have a Franchise caliber QB. There are a number of recent examples so I don't need to go through them all - but a great QB can literally carry a team....Tyrod cannot.

You tell me the upgrade to the QB position and I'll listen. I don't see it. The argument against TT isn't that there are better options, it's the cap hit can't be justified.

[MAJBobby]

Could be a nice "buy low" option.

I am not sure he would be. He seems like the type of player that thinks the INJ issues wont hurt his market value and will be an after draft into camp signing a 1 year proce it deal.

 

This is all conjecture becuase i dont know the player but he doesnt seen like a guy that will sign that prove it deal early in UFA

[Kirby Jackson]

I am not sure he would be. He seems like the type of player that thinks the INJ issues wont hurt his market value and will be an after draft into camp signing a 1 year proce it deal.

 

This is all conjecture becuase i dont know the player but he doesnt seen like a guy that will sign that prove it deal early in UFA

I don't necessarily disagree. I'd be okay with him on a prove it deal is kind of what I was getting at. He played a nice game the other night. He's certainly not a guy I'd depend on but wouldn't hate him on an incentive laden, minimal deal.

[MAJBobby]

I don't necessarily disagree. I'd be okay with him on a prove it deal is kind of what I was getting at. He played a nice game the other night. He's certainly not a guy I'd depend on but wouldn't hate him on an incentive laden, minimal deal.

Yeah i can handle that. Just getting tired of the buy this INJed player and watch. Rarely do they ever return to close to form. But like everything depends on Price but a player like that should be given a league min deal with escalators.

 

I would rather take chances on players like Richie who dont have INJ history but some stupid other issue (granted Richies blackball was utterly stupid for doing exactly what his coach asked him to do)

[John from Riverside]

For all those that says you absolutely have to pick of the option. Hypothetically they dont.

 

What changes on the Offense? What do you lose? What is it that this offense cannot be without?

 

Now is that worth a 16M cap hit and essentially being married to TT at min til the end of 2018?

That option makes him around the 20th highest paid qb

 

His production puts about about the 20th ranked qb

 

The offense overall is 5th in scoring

 

All I need is that name that is going to keep it 5th in scoring...im all ears.

 

I still think the bills should approach him with renegotiating the option. Get it down to a 10 million dollar cap hit....I dont care about the actual money

[MAJBobby]

That option makes him around the 20th highest paid qb

 

His production puts about about the 20th ranked qb

 

The offense overall is 5th in scoring

 

All I need is that name that is going to keep it 5th in scoring...im all ears.

 

I still think the bills should approach him with renegotiating the option. Get it down to a 10 million dollar cap hit....I dont care about the actual money

Another response from the supporters with No response to the actual thread.

 

I am even at a point i could care less about 2017 cap hit.

 

What i hate about the option is we are also locked in for 2018.

 

So go TT get the guaranteed money in 2018 wiped out so i can walk away if he continues to not be good enough without a major cap issue and fine pick up his option

 

But as long as 2018 guaranteed money is tied to that option NOPE

[Dragonborn10]

MAJ - You have no credibility if you think the biggest issue with this team is the offense and the QB.

As many as three DB positions need to be replaced if they let Gilmore walk. The defense is worse than last year and is the reason this team is not in the playoffs. The offense crapped the bed against Baltimore, Pittsburgh, and the second half of Oakland. The defense lost the Jets, Pittsburgh, Miami x 2, Seattle, Oakland, and Patriots.

I will agree I have seen little development in TT's game this year. Perhaps a little more awareness and throws over the middle. But little if any awareness and ability to figure out the risk/no risk ratio on when to throw the ball. He gets a bit of a pass for several games playing with JV level WR's.

 

But as others have pointed out, what is your alternative? Jones is years away if ever. No rookie worth a first round grade. I have no issue drafting a rookie QB and if he wins the job like Wilson did with a new coach I could care less if TT is being paid or not. The total money spent on starter/back-up would still be very acceptable.

Another response from the supporters with No response to the actual thread.

I am even at a point i could care less about 2017 cap hit.

What i hate about the option is we are also locked in for 2018.

So go TT get the guaranteed money in 2018 wiped out so i can walk away if he continues to not be good enough without a major cap issue and fine pick up his option

But as long as 2018 guaranteed money is tied to that option NOPE

2018? Come on. You don't even know what the cap will be then. With your plan of drafting a rookie and he beats out TT for the job, the starting QB would be among the least paid starting QB's in the league just like it was for Seattle. 2018 KW, Hughes, and maybe even Shady would be coming off the books. The only player worth keeping not under contract is Watkins. There will be plenty of money to pay him.

[MAJBobby]

MAJ - You have no credibility if you think the biggest issue with this team is the offense and the QB.

As many as three DB positions need to be replaced if they let Gilmore walk. The defense is worse than last year and is the reason this team is not in the playoffs. The offense crapped the bed against Baltimore, Pittsburgh, and the second half of Oakland. The defense lost the Jets, Pittsburgh, Miami x 2, Seattle, Oakland, and Patriots.

I will agree I have seen little development in TT's game this year. Perhaps a little more awareness and throws over the middle. But little if any awareness and ability to figure out the risk/no risk ratio on when to throw the ball. He gets a bit of a pass for several games playing with JV level WR's.

 

But as others have pointed out, what is your alternative? Jones is years away if ever. No rookie worth a first round grade. I have no issue drafting a rookie QB and if he wins the job like Wilson did with a new coach I could care less if TT is being paid or not. The total money spent on starter/back-up would still be very acceptable.

 

2018? Come on. You don't even know what the cap will be then. With your plan of drafting a rookie and he beats out TT for the job, the starting QB would be among the least paid starting QB's in the league just like it was for Seattle. 2018 KW, Hughes, and maybe even Shady would be coming off the books. The only player worth keeping not under contract is Watkins. There will be plenty of money to pay him.

Sure you the minute the option is picked up you know the dead money in 2018 if Taylor continues to regress

 

Glad you think i have no credibility because i dont think the same as you. I dont think in any of my posts i have ever said the defense is not a problem. However i think it is more scheme than players.

 

TT on the other hand is in the ideal offense for his play and just regressed

[Dragonborn10]

Sure you the minute the option is picked up you know the dead money in 2018 if Taylor continues to regress

 

Glad you think i have no credibility because i dont think the same as you. I dont think in any of my posts i have ever said the defense is not a problem. However i think it is more scheme than players.

 

TT on the other hand is in the ideal offense for his play and just regressed

At least we agree it is scheme not the players on defense. Even a healthy secondary and Rex's antiquated defense would get torched.

And I want a QB that can throw for 300 a game too. I like modern NFL passing games. I like watching the best athletes make incredible plays downfield. But there is more than one way to win in this league. If Seattle had handed the ball to Lynch they would have two SuperBowl wins with some of the worst passing attacks in a decade. The offense was good enough to beat Miami twice and the Bills would be locked into a playoff spot already.

 

Perhaps it would be easier to want TT gone if he wasn't so likeable. He seems like a perfect Buffalo guy. Plays hard every snap. Never quits. Always nice.

I get your points about his play. He simply does not pull the trigger when guys are just getting open. This leads to guys catching the ball at the boundaries and without a chance to get more yards. Case in point the OOB throw to Clay in the back of the end-one. He could have made that throw a second earlier and Clay is catching the ball wide open with four yards to spare to the endline. Or worse he doesn't pull the trigger at all. Watkins is a highlight reel waiting to happen.

Sure you the minute the option is picked up you know the dead money in 2018 if Taylor continues to regress

 

Glad you think i have no credibility because i dont think the same as you. I dont think in any of my posts i have ever said the defense is not a problem. However i think it is more scheme than players.

 

TT on the other hand is in the ideal offense for his play and just regressed

 

Regressed or not progressed. Matter of opinion I guess. But, even if TT regressed, the offense progressed. And if TT regressed it is with a huge injury asterisk for the WRs.

[MAJBobby]

At least we agree it is scheme not the players on defense. Even a healthy secondary and Rex's antiquated defense would get torched.

And I want a QB that can throw for 300 a game too. I like modern NFL passing games. I like watching the best athletes make incredible plays downfield. But there is more than one way to win in this league. If Seattle had handed the ball to Lynch they would have two SuperBowl wins with some of the worst passing attacks in a decade. The offense was good enough to beat Miami twice and the Bills would be locked into a playoff spot already.

 

Perhaps it would be easier to want TT gone if he wasn't so likeable. He seems like a perfect Buffalo guy. Plays hard every snap. Never quits. Always nice.

I get your points about his play. He simply does not pull the trigger when guys are just getting open. This leads to guys catching the ball at the boundaries and without a chance to get more yards. Case in point the OOB throw to Clay in the back of the end-one. He could have made that throw a second earlier and Clay is catching the ball wide open with four yards to spare to the endline. Or worse he doesn't pull the trigger at all. Watkins is a highlight reel waiting to happen.

Look a agree about running too it is needed. But like you said so isnt an actual NFL passing attack. I would love people that have All 22 go watch the Bills passing concepts and then watch other teams. Even those run first teams like Dallas and Seattle.

 

And yes even in Seattle and Denver there was games they needed their respective QB to step up and win a game. They did, Taylor?

 

I am sorry maybe i am not like most that want to blame the defense (they did fail this year) but i think it is an easy fix this defense is not that far removed from a defense that had 4 10 sack players on the DL.

 

Fix the scheme And defense is much better. On offense though i cannot say the same. Go away from the current Army Offense scheme and i dont think Taylor or the offense gets better because i have serious reservations about this QB executing a modern NFL offense

At least we agree it is scheme not the players on defense. Even a healthy secondary and Rex's antiquated defense would get torched.

And I want a QB that can throw for 300 a game too. I like modern NFL passing games. I like watching the best athletes make incredible plays downfield. But there is more than one way to win in this league. If Seattle had handed the ball to Lynch they would have two SuperBowl wins with some of the worst passing attacks in a decade. The offense was good enough to beat Miami twice and the Bills would be locked into a playoff spot already.

 

Perhaps it would be easier to want TT gone if he wasn't so likeable. He seems like a perfect Buffalo guy. Plays hard every snap. Never quits. Always nice.

I get your points about his play. He simply does not pull the trigger when guys are just getting open. This leads to guys catching the ball at the boundaries and without a chance to get more yards. Case in point the OOB throw to Clay in the back of the end-one. He could have made that throw a second earlier and Clay is catching the ball wide open with four yards to spare to the endline. Or worse he doesn't pull the trigger at all. Watkins is a highlight reel waiting to happen.

 

 

Regressed or not progressed. Matter of opinion I guess. But, even if TT regressed, the offense progressed. And if TT regressed it is with a huge injury asterisk for the WRs.

Again the INJ happens all over the league. Fact is Clay open all year why til now before Taylor starts throwijg to him. Maybe he realized he has to flash a bit to keep a job (or try)

 

Other QBs lose WR, Cam did what happened he turned Ginn into a viable WR. Who did TT elevate.

 

We have a QB that needs everyone around him to play great to look AVG were good QBs can take those AVG players and make them look above average or even great

[Fan in San Diego]

I'll jump in and throw in my 2 cents. I vote for keeping TT, we don't really have a better option. I do think his play would improve if the the OL was improved and a few more WR's for him to throw too.

But our real problem is not the offense, it's the defense, this defense cant stop anybody. As Jim Miller on the NFL Network says, we are defensively challenged. Since Rex Ryan and his brother Rob are supposed to be defensive guru's, it's not happening, so I think we have to let those two guys go.

[Dragonborn10]

Look a agree about running too it is needed. But like you said so isnt an actual NFL passing attack. I would love people that have All 22 go watch the Bills passing concepts and then watch other teams. Even those run first teams like Dallas and Seattle.

 

And yes even in Seattle and Denver there was games they needed their respective QB to step up and win a game. They did, Taylor?

 

I am sorry maybe i am not like most that want to blame the defense (they did fail this year) but i think it is an easy fix this defense is not that far removed from a defense that had 4 10 sack players on the DL.

 

Fix the scheme And defense is much better. On offense though i cannot say the same. Go away from the current Army Offense scheme and i dont think Taylor or the offense gets better because i have serious reservations about this QB executing a modern NFL offense

 

Again the INJ happens all over the league. Fact is Clay open all year why til now before Taylor starts throwijg to him. Maybe he realized he has to flash a bit to keep a job (or try)

 

Other QBs lose WR, Cam did what happened he turned Ginn into a viable WR. Who did TT elevate.

 

We have a QB that needs everyone around him to play great to look AVG were good QBs can take those AVG players and make them look above average or even great

Again I agree the defense is easy to fix.

I disagree the offense needs to be fixed. Improved sure. But the offense has scored enough to win and be in the playoffs.

You can not equate what happened to the Bills WRs this year to losing one WR.

I don't know what the issue was with Clay and TT. Open on All-22 doesn't equate to where the ball should go on any given play. We don't know what the play design dictates. But in general I agree, Clay should have been targeted far more.

 

In the end my opinion has not changed. I would pick-up the extension as is. Two weeks ago I would have tried to get TT to renegotiate the deal. Maybe Whaley still tries that. But the Bills would still be in the playoff race today with the way the QB played yesterday and through the totality of the season. The defense is the reason the team will miss the playoffs. Did you ever imagine that would be the case 24 months ago? Even if Marrone had not left, no one would have foreseen the total collapse on that side of the ball.

[billykaykay]

Defense is a concern. Under different leadership I expect Dareus and Hughes to return to form. Lawson will get a full camp and Ragland will be back. We still have depth on the line. Zach Brown or Lorax could be brought back if we wanted and I don't think either would cost a lot because Brown regressed and Alexander is kind of old. Secondary is a concern. DB is almost assuredly our round 1 pick. But it's not a looming disaster just yet.

 

Gonna try not to hijack the thread though.

We don't need high priced studs at DB if we don't put them on an island. A steady veteran free agent DB & more zone packages would free up money that is maybe going to Gilmore.. Of course that means getting rid of Rex.

[yungmack]

Where were you guys when TT pooped the bed vs the Raiders and Steelers ending the Buffalo Bills season ? Selective memory for the CoT ?

Qb is a huge problem. One good game vs the fins when the season is over doesn't change that.

For every Miami game there is a Ravens game.

TT will have bad moments and bad games. After all, he's not Brady and I don't think anyone around here believes he is. But is he a bottom of the barrel waste of space as some continue to argue? Hardly. I for one would take him over half the starters in the league while actively looking to improve to the Brady level. I certainly wouldn't replace him with any of the QBs likely to he available this off season. That would be insane.

[MAJBobby]

TT will have bad moments and bad games. After all, he's not Brady and I don't think anyone around here believes he is. But is he a bottom of the barrel waste of space as some continue to argue? Hardly. I for one would take him over half the starters in the league while actively looking to improve to the Brady level. I certainly wouldn't replace him with any of the QBs likely to he available this off season. That would be insane.

Yeah league worst passing attack in a passing NFL is totally acceptable

[billykaykay]

How do the great teams solve Defense issues?? They have a Franchise caliber QB. There are a number of recent examples so I don't need to go through them all - but a great QB can literally carry a team....Tyrod cannot.

So, what's your solution - just go out & clone one ?