So here is my question (Offense and Taylor)

[Pbomb]

Oh wait nevermind continued reading and hoyer is one of his better options, a career journeyman backup, ya thats a great idea

[Kirby Jackson]

What changes in offense that is just so bad? Because by letting him walk frees up much needed cap space to address what your defense concerns are

 

The running game regresses. They have a running game that is the best of the last two decades and clicking on all cylinders. Their offense is 7th in PPG. https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/points-per-game I have no interest in pulling the QB out of that situation. They need to add a RT and a WR (or 2) but other than that I am leaving them alone.

Hard to argue with this. I see many flaws in TTs game, but the offense does put points on the board. They are somewhat unconventional in their approach for the modern NFL . Perhaps the modern measurables aren't as important when assessing the offenses effectivenes? If the goal is to score x number of ppg, does it matter how the offense looks as they score them? Maybe not. A better passing attack would undoubtedly take away from the running attack (there are only so many offensive plays run in a game) so the improvement nay not lead to more points being scored. If one looks at the point total this season and where it stands in team history, this appears likely. Is it realistic to think that more passing yards would lead to the best offensive output the Bills have ever sustained in their existence? Probably not. If getting an obvious upgrade at QB such as Romo is not an option, then TT at the 20th slot in term of QB pay is not crazy. The defense seems more antiquated than the offense, and all efforts at improvement should likely be focused there. Start by showing Rex and his system the door. Keep the Offense with some minor tweaks so players don't need to learn an entirely new system . One side of the ball is enough to start over. Reinvent the D in a more personnel friendly scheme and the Bills may get a two or three game improvement. Easier to make the D a top ten unit than to find a top 5 or 10 QB.

100% agree with absolutely everything. That pretty much sums up my feelings on the team.

[MAJBobby]

There is a difference between having a so-so situation and having a problem. The O is so-so, the D is a problem. The team can live and even flourish to a degree with a so-so O but it can not win with a problematic D. The sole focus this off season has to be on the D, either improving the personnel or, more likely, improving the coaching. An improved D that comes close to matching the O's league standing makes for a much more successful team overall.

 

So what do you lose without having TT? You lose that so-so offense. The only possible replacement in-house is a kd with 11(!) collegiate starts, one who was benched. From the outside there are a bunch of bums, mediocrities and washed up vets. There are no candidates in the draft who rise to TT's level. Because of his elusiveness combined with his ability to go long, defenses are schizophrenic and tentative. This opens up the run game in general, making it more lethal than with a more traditional QB. It also makes the line appear to be better than it possibly is otherwise. And getting rid of TT means there will be more turnovers which are among the most significant factors in losing games. But you already know these things as they have been brought to your attention in thread after thread after thread. You either refuse to accept these truths or you are just an old crank who needs to fill his life with endless trolling.

Massive assumption that replacing TT with the bum-of-the-month automatically somehow magically vastly improves the passing game. God lord, you even beleve Brian Hoyer can be the one to somehow pull off this miracle! I sincerely hope no one allows you near firearms, volitile liquids or car keys.

Because yet in his entire career he can be at least what Tyrod is and likely better passing for 1/3rd the cap hit.

 

Awesome eventually people will understand the game.

There is a difference between having a so-so situation and having a problem. The O is so-so, the D is a problem. The team can live and even flourish to a degree with a so-so O but it can not win with a problematic D. The sole focus this off season has to be on the D, either improving the personnel or, more likely, improving the coaching. An improved D that comes close to matching the O's league standing makes for a much more successful team overall.

 

So what do you lose without having TT? You lose that so-so offense. The only possible replacement in-house is a kd with 11(!) collegiate starts, one who was benched. From the outside there are a bunch of bums, mediocrities and washed up vets. There are no candidates in the draft who rise to TT's level. Because of his elusiveness combined with his ability to go long, defenses are schizophrenic and tentative. This opens up the run game in general, making it more lethal than with a more traditional QB. It also makes the line appear to be better than it possibly is otherwise. And getting rid of TT means there will be more turnovers which are among the most significant factors in losing games. But you already know these things as they have been brought to your attention in thread after thread after thread. You either refuse to accept these truths or you are just an old crank who needs to fill his life with endless trolling.

Massive assumption that replacing TT with the bum-of-the-month automatically somehow magically vastly improves the passing game. God lord, you even beleve Brian Hoyer can be the one to somehow pull off this miracle! I sincerely hope no one allows you near firearms, volitile liquids or car keys.

How do you lose thag So So offense

Does the passijg gake get worse? Does the run game fall of the cliff?

its hilarious he refuses to post any other options

Hilarious not many COT members can quanify what this saviour brings to the offense

Oh wait nevermind continued reading and hoyer is one of his better options, a career journeyman backup, ya thats a great idea

So Tyrod cool

The running game regresses. They have a running game that is the best of the last two decades and clicking on all cylinders. Their offense is 7th in PPG. https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/points-per-game I have no interest in pulling the QB out of that situation. They need to add a RT and a WR (or 2) but other than that I am leaving them alone.

100% agree with absolutely everything. That pretty much sums up my feelings on the team.

Running game regresses because i remove Taylor really? Shady is leaving too? How much does it regress TAke Taylors run stats out where do the Bills rank

[Kirby Jackson]

Running game regresses because i remove Taylor really? Shady is leaving too? How much does it regress TAke Taylors run stats out where do the Bills rank

You don't think that that running game regresses without Tyrod? In addition to his 580 yards, 6.1 YPC and 6 TDs he commands a spy. The Bills design all kinds of run fakes because of the threat of him. The design of the offense that is 7th in the league in scoring is possible because of the threat of his legs, designed bootlegs, options, zone reads, etc... Basically the foundation of the offense is built on that.

 

In fact I'll ask the exact opposite question of you. How don't you think that the running game will regress. They are averaging the highest YPC in the NFL for at least the last 15 seasons. That's as far back as I could find the stats. Their rushing attack has been better than AT LEAST the last 480 NFL teams (and possibly significantly more). You are suggesting that changing the foundation of that attack and replacing Taylor with Hoyer will somehow keep them operating at this level. How so? Even the biggest TT critics wouldn't try to make that argument.

Edited December 25, 2016 by Kirby Jackson

[MAJBobby]

You don't think that that running game regresses without Tyrod? In addition to his 580 yards, 6.1 YPC and 6 TDs he commands a spy. The Bills design all kinds of run fakes because of the threat of him. The design of the offense that is 7th in the league in scoring is possible because of the threat of his legs, designed bootlegs, options, zone reads, etc... Basically the foundation of the offense is built on that.

 

In fact I'll ask the exact opposite question of you. How don't you think that the running game will regress. They are averaging the highest YPC in the NFL for at least the last 15 seasons. That's as far back as I could find the stats. Their rushing attack has been better than AT LEAST the last 480 NFL teams (and possibly significantly more). You are suggesting that changing the foundation of that attack and teplacing Taylor with Hoyer will somehow keep them operating at this level. How so? Even the biggest TT critics wouldn't try to make that argument.

I think it does regress. However i also think it likely falls into the top 5. So now if i can get a passing game to be in the 20s and not dead last i dont lose much.

 

Example Does Shady perfomr similar with Derek Carr at QB yep he does and now i have a much better passing attack and much more balance and unpredictable offense.

 

Again it does fall off a bit but not enough to cause people to say our run offense is bad

 

So an offense perfectly designed for him and he is Blah. Sorry i can get blah at a lot less cap hit and improve elsehere

Edited December 25, 2016 by MAJBobby

[jms62]

The rushing game won't be affected much moving from a guy that has accounted for nearly 25% of our rushing yards and 6 TD's to a guy with -2 yds this year and 116 and 1 TD for his career. Good !@#$ing grief.

Edited December 25, 2016 by jms62

[MAJBobby]

The rushing game won't be affected much moving from a guy that has accounted for nearly 25% of our rushing yards and 6 TD's to a guy with -2 yds this year and 116 and 1 TD for his career. Good !@#$ing grief.

take his stats out where to the Bills rank

 

Try it

[Kirby Jackson]

Running game regresses because i remove Taylor really?

I think it does regress.

So you do agree now that it regresses? Thats what the Bills need to be careful of. Why are you taking away what you do best to get better balance? You don't sacrifice what you do well to get better. You work on your weaknesses but not at the expense of what makes you effective.

[MAJBobby]

So you do agree now that it regresses? Thats what the Bills need to be careful of. Why are you taking away what you do best to get better balance? You don't sacrifice what you do well to get better. You work on your weaknesses but not at the expense of what makes you effective.

I never once said it wouldnt regress. I have said not that much.

 

And let me ask what has the top ranked run offense with bad pass offense and weak (No 16M in space to help) defense gotten Bills in past.

 

Even with Marrone has a much better much better defense and a top Run game once again no playoffs

 

See

[Kirby Jackson]

take his stats out where to the Bills rank

 

Try it

It's not just the stats (which are historically great) but the threat of Tyrod's legs and design of the offense. That works BECAUSE he is so mobile. The Bills rushing attack will take a step back without him and a huge step back without a mobile QB because the design will have to change. If you believe that what you will be sacrificing there is worth the upgrade to the passing game then maybe so. I just don't believe that replacing Tyrod with Brian Hoyer will produce the 3rd or 4th highest scoring season in Bills history.

[nucci]

It's not just the stats (which are historically great) but the threat of Tyrod's legs and design of the offense. That works BECAUSE he is so mobile. The Bills rushing attack will take a step back without him and a huge step back without a mobile QB because the design will have to change. If you believe that what you will be sacrificing there is worth the upgrade to the passing game then maybe so. I just don't believe that replacing Tyrod with Brian Hoyer will produce the 3rd or 4th highest scoring season in Bills history.

Amazing that he think Hoyer will make this team better....the conversation should stop right there

[MAJBobby]

It's not just the stats (which are historically great) but the threat of Tyrod's legs and design of the offense. That works BECAUSE he is so mobile. The Bills rushing attack will take a step back without him and a huge step back without a mobile QB because the design will have to change. If you believe that what you will be sacrificing there is worth the upgrade to the passing game then maybe so. I just don't believe that replacing Tyrod with Brian Hoyer will produce the 3rd or 4th highest scoring season in Bills history.

Yeah all TT nothibf to do with the OL and an Elite RB it is Tyrod the reason the run game is so great.

 

But it is the INJ T WRs the reason the pass game was historically bad.

Amazing that he think Hoyer will make this team better....the conversation should stop right there

Amazing you cant see what i am saying wow Bills fans so funny

[Kirby Jackson]

I never once said it wouldnt regress. I have said not that much.

 

And let me ask what has the top ranked run offense with bad pass offense and weak (No 16M in space to help) defense gotten Bills in past.

 

Even with Marrone has a much better much better defense and a top Run game once again no playoffs

 

See

The Bills have only scored at this rate a couple of times in franchise history. You can't compare the decent offenses to one that's averaging 26 PPG and never turns the ball over. That's different. The offense has CERTAINLY been good enough to be a playoff team this year. It's the defense that has been the problem. They've been atrocious (as have the kickers).

[nucci]

Yeah all TT nothibf to do with the OL and an Elite RB it is Tyrod the reason the run game is so great.

 

But it is the INJ T WRs the reason the pass game was historically bad.

 

Amazing you cant see what i am saying wow Bills fans so funny

I apologize. I thought I read that you wanted Hoyer signed

[MAJBobby]

The Bills have only scored at this rate a couple of times in franchise history. You can't compare the decent offenses to one that's averaging 26 PPG and never turns the ball over. That's different. The offense has CERTAINLY been good enough to be a playoff team this year. It's the defense that has been the problem. They've been atrocious (as have the kickers).

Ok what dies he bring to the table. 7 points , 1 point. What is his the expected point gain with TT playing QB

[fansince88]

Your depth of football knowledge is astounding thanks for the contribution

If it wasnt Christmas I would tell you how pompous you are and how impossible you are to discuss anything on here. But it is Christmas so I won't.

[MAJBobby]

I apologize. I thought I read that you wanted Hoyer signed

I apologize thought you added something to a conversation

[jms62]

25% seems like a significant amount to me. But lets replace him with someone averaging 175 yds passing a game and a 2.1 % INT rate for his career while our QB is averaging 201 per game and 1.4%. Seems like we lose on the rushing and the passing.

[MAJBobby]

Do you have an alternative or do you just like to B word without naming a replacement?

Yep many and named many but not what this tgread was about

25% seems like a significant amount to me. But lets replace him with someone averaging 175 yds passing a game and a 2.1 % INT rate for his career while our QB is averaging 201 per game and 1.4%. Seems like we lose on the rushing and the passing.

Without TT stats the Bills ranked Top 5 in rushing last year.

 

Same this year so again were is the major regression compared to the rest of the league?

[nucci]

I apologize thought you added something to a conversation

are you really being a dick about this?