Pine Barrens Mafia Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 2 minutes ago, The_Dude said: I type using my Appalachian accent when angry. However, I’m quite sure you can decipher my meaning. Ah, on fifth re-reading, you mean COMBAT DIVISIONS IN THE UKRAINE. You're truly a buffoon if you think that's a good idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Dude Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 (edited) 5 minutes ago, joesixpack said: Ah, on fifth re-reading, you mean COMBAT DIVISIONS IN THE UKRAINE. You're truly a buffoon if you think that's a good idea. Well since you put it so convincingly, I retract my idea. After all, I don't want to be labeled a buffoon. God that would be stupid of us to stop Russian territorial acquisition. It's funny how Trump has turned conservative into capitulating pussies. Actually, it's rather sad now that I think of it. Trump is cowing the last of the American men. Sad. Edited July 19, 2018 by The_Dude Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 1 minute ago, The_Dude said: Well since you put it so convincingly, I retract my idea. After all, I don't want to be labeled a buffoon. God that would be stupid of us to stop Russian territorial acquisition. It's funny how Trump has turner conservative into capitulating pussies. Actually, it's rather sad now that I think of it. Trump is cowing the last of the American men. Sad. This is beyond absurd. You realize of course, ANY war with Russia carries with it the threat of nuclear annihilation? This wouldn't be like invading Iraq....which proved to be impossible. This would be fighting against a first-rate army, again backed with nuclear weaponry. And you can't see why anyone would think that would be buffoonery? Actually, I take that back, it's doing a disservice to buffoons to call it bufoonery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TH3 Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 11 hours ago, joesixpack said: I think it’s better if we just ditch it. Let them figure out their own defense. You're truly a buffoon if you think that's a good idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 7 minutes ago, baskin said: You're truly a buffoon if you think that's a good idea. None of you morons has yet to offer me one benefit we receive from providing a defense umbrella for Europe. Do they give us favorable trade conditions? No. Do they help provide for their own defense? Not really. Do they help defend US? No. Do they back us up in global politics? MMMMnope. So again, WHAT do we get from it as taxpayers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Dude Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 (edited) 16 minutes ago, joesixpack said: This is beyond absurd. You realize of course, ANY war with Russia carries with it the threat of nuclear annihilation? This wouldn't be like invading Iraq....which proved to be impossible. This would be fighting against a first-rate army, again backed with nuclear weaponry. And you can't see why anyone would think that would be buffoonery? Actually, I take that back, it's doing a disservice to buffoons to call it bufoonery. Ok, first, Iraq wasn't impossible, I know because I was there and participated in it. Second, Russia does NOT have a first rate Army. They can't afford one. They have crack special ops and such. But theirs is not as good as ours, and they don't have the ability to sustain a war with us. When you look at the balance sheet, the odds are in our favor. Provided we act before a solid Russo-Chinese alliance gets going. Third, the nuclear option is unlikely. History substantiates that when you consider the cold war thingy, which was hot for much of its duration via proxies, it is unlikely. Fourth, APPEASEMENT, you jackass, is exactly what started WWII. So you can take your gutless Chamberlainesque white flag politics and shove 'em up your gutless ass. Fifth, this is what Winston meant when he said he was in the wilderness. All off by himself. Sixth, the idea of divisions in the Ukraine isn't to ignite a war, it's to prevent one. See doctrine in Europe post VE day. Edited July 19, 2018 by The_Dude Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 3 minutes ago, The_Dude said: Second, Russia does NOT have a first rate Army. They can't afford one. Fourth, APPEASEMENT, you jackass, is exactly what started WWII. So you can take your gutless Chamberlainesque white flag politics and shove 'em up your gutless ass. You realize of course, the complete idiocy of these two statements combined into one post? IF, like you say, Russia doesn't have a first rate army, they're not going to try and conquer the world. So what difference does combat divisions in the Ukraine make? You're a neo-con hawk. I get it. You like sending americans all over the globe to keep the world safe for democracy. I take a look at HISTORY, and not even DISTANT history and see how poorly that strategy's worked out for us. People HATE our country because we send troops everywhere. And we get ZERO benefit as Americans from doing it. I'm tired of that. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Dude Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 Just now, joesixpack said: You realize of course, the complete idiocy of these two statements combined into one post? IF, like you say, Russia doesn't have a first rate army, they're not going to try and conquer the world. So what difference does combat divisions in the Ukraine make? You're a neo-con hawk. I get it. You like sending americans all over the globe to keep the world safe for democracy. I take a look at HISTORY, and not even DISTANT history and see how poorly that strategy's worked out for us. People HATE our country because we send troops everywhere. And we get ZERO benefit as Americans from doing it. I'm tired of that. You're NOT wrong there. It sickens me. Iraq's oil is ours by conquest. The mineral resources of Afghanistan are ours by right of conquest. I look at history too. Hiding from the boogeyman under the blankets doesn't work. Killing the boogeyman does work. What's even better though, is out strategising your opponent. I advocate for forcing Russia to capitulate in hopes that a war will be averted. I don't want a war with Russia. But I won't run from it. That will only give Russia time to secure resources and it will only delay necessary action in a manner that benefits the Russians. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 (edited) 6 minutes ago, The_Dude said: I look at history too. Hiding from the boogeyman under the blankets doesn't work. I'm not advocating for THAT. I want us to maintain a capable military. What I am advocating against is playing world police. Let other people kill each other. Let the Israelis and Arabs settle their differences with violence so that the problem is resolved once and for all, either way. We're now in a position where we're energy independent. We don't need to be in the Middle East. We don't need to be in Europe protecting them. They should protect themselves. About the only foreign countries I feel an obligation toward are Japan, Canada and the UK. That's it. The rest can rot...especially the utterly obnoxious Germans and French. Edited July 19, 2018 by joesixpack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 2 hours ago, The_Dude said: The best way to prevent a war is by putting divisions in the Ukraine, driving out the “rebels,” and demonstrating that we ain’t scared of commie bitches. And thems some bitches. So you're advocating for preventing a war by invading Ukraine? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
row_33 Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 22 minutes ago, DC Tom said: So you're advocating for preventing a war by invading Ukraine? i would be very happy to not see another Vietnam during the hopefully 30 years of senescence i have remaining. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Dude Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 58 minutes ago, DC Tom said: So you're advocating for preventing a war by invading Ukraine? “invading” — no. Asking if they’d like our help dealing with these separatists that Putin assured us in no way are his people, yes. I advocate for that. Let’s ask the Ukraine if they’d like some air squadrons and armored divisions to help secure their borders. That’s what I advocate for. I advocate for pressuring NATO to sever all economic ties with Russia. I advocate for a strong Naval presence in the Black Sea. 1 hour ago, joesixpack said: I'm not advocating for THAT. I want us to maintain a capable military. What I am advocating against is playing world police. Let other people kill each other. Let the Israelis and Arabs settle their differences with violence so that the problem is resolved once and for all, either way. We're now in a position where we're energy independent. We don't need to be in the Middle East. We don't need to be in Europe protecting them. They should protect themselves. About the only foreign countries I feel an obligation toward are Japan, Canada and the UK. That's it. The rest can rot...especially the utterly obnoxious Germans and French. Joe, you logic isn’t bad. And I’d agree with it but for the costly lessons of the first half of the 20th century. I do NOT want a war. Churchill didn’t want WWII in the 30’s. He wanted to stop it by castrating Germany during their rearmament. What I advocate for is to keep the peace by doing everything we can to keep the Russians in check. Understand Putin. Putin is as Russia as Russia. He’s the embodiment of that country. Does that mean he’s evil? Not really. But he’s willing to do anything like Stallin was to reach the greatness he envisions for Russia. IMO, Putin wants the territory of the old Soviet bloc back. And does he have a point? Kinda. Russia paid for that territory with blood when pushing the Nazis back. I get why he wants what he wants. But we mustn’t let him have it. Inaction on is a greater risk than action. The action I propose is prevention. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 9 minutes ago, The_Dude said: “invading” — no. Asking if they’d like our help dealing with these separatists that Putin assured us in no way are his people, yes. I advocate for that. Let’s ask the Ukraine if they’d like some air squadrons and armored divisions to help secure their borders. That’s what I advocate for. I advocate for pressuring NATO to sever all economic ties with Russia. I advocate for a strong Naval presence in the Black Sea. Joe, you logic isn’t bad. And I’d agree with it but for the costly lessons of the first half of the 20th century. I do NOT want a war. Churchill didn’t want WWII in the 30’s. He wanted to stop it by castrating Germany during their rearmament. What I advocate for is to keep the peace by doing everything we can to keep the Russians in check. Understand Putin. Putin is as Russia as Russia. He’s the embodiment of that country. Does that mean he’s evil? Not really. But he’s willing to do anything like Stallin was to reach the greatness he envisions for Russia. IMO, Putin wants the territory of the old Soviet bloc back. And does he have a point? Kinda. Russia paid for that territory with blood when pushing the Nazis back. I get why he wants what he wants. But we mustn’t let him have it. Inaction on is a greater risk than action. The action I propose is prevention. Putin isn't Hitler, and Russia isn't Nazi Germany. The comparison is simply invalid. I don't see Russia as a threat. China, yes. Russia, no. The Euros can handle their own security without a dime from us. Let them spend THEIR treasure on their own defense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
row_33 Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 all the liberals are Churchill now..... OHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH-KAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Dude Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 12 minutes ago, joesixpack said: Putin isn't Hitler, and Russia isn't Nazi Germany. The comparison is simply invalid. I don't see Russia as a threat. China, yes. Russia, no. The Euros can handle their own security without a dime from us. Let them spend THEIR treasure on their own defense. I agree. I am COMPLETELY fine with Trump stating 'everybody needs to pay up, or there wont be a dime from the US.' The first 50 years of the 20th century resulted in NATO as a means to preventing another World War on the continent. Destroying NATO will only guarantee that situation, not prevent it. Our interests in the early 20th century dragged us into two world wars and it'll happen again if we're not careful. I'm wanting to deny Russia the oxygen for the fire they want to start so we don't have to put it out at great expense later. I believe in a pro-active foreign diplomacy. Further, I do not, and will not, question America's right to dictate world events. I believe we've earned that. 14 minutes ago, row_33 said: all the liberals are Churchill now..... OHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH-KAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy.... Who said that? Lord knows I never will, despite the fact Churchill did go liberal for a brief time (even though his views never went liberal). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
row_33 Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 17 minutes ago, The_Dude said: I agree. I am COMPLETELY fine with Trump stating 'everybody needs to pay up, or there wont be a dime from the US.' The first 50 years of the 20th century resulted in NATO as a means to preventing another World War on the continent. Destroying NATO will only guarantee that situation, not prevent it. Our interests in the early 20th century dragged us into two world wars and it'll happen again if we're not careful. I'm wanting to deny Russia the oxygen for the fire they want to start so we don't have to put it out at great expense later. I believe in a pro-active foreign diplomacy. Further, I do not, and will not, question America's right to dictate world events. I believe we've earned that. Who said that? Lord knows I never will, despite the fact Churchill did go liberal for a brief time (even though his views never went liberal). everyone who isn't a SJW is called a Nazi, they are all finger-pointing Churchills telling us world war is coming.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TH3 Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 2 hours ago, joesixpack said: None of you morons has yet to offer me one benefit we receive from providing a defense umbrella for Europe. Do they give us favorable trade conditions? No. Do they help provide for their own defense? Not really. Do they help defend US? No. Do they back us up in global politics? MMMMnope. So again, WHAT do we get from it as taxpayers? Do some thinking/research before you indicate your ignorance... Favorable trade conditions? US/Euro have the most integrated and economic relationship in the world...our US investment in Europe far surpasses all other economic areas.... Provide for their own defense - yes Help defend the US? - See 9/11 Back us up in global politics? Ummmm....they did for 70 years till about last week.... What do you get....you get to live in the greatest economic time in the history of the world...among a partnership of liberal democracies that have set the stage for you to sit at your keyboard and spew your ignorance....be happy.... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Dude Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 3 minutes ago, row_33 said: everyone who isn't a SJW is called a Nazi, they are all finger-pointing Churchills telling us world war is coming.... Wait, what? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 8 minutes ago, baskin said: Do some thinking/research before you indicate your ignorance... Favorable trade conditions? US/Euro have the most integrated and economic relationship in the world...our US investment in Europe far surpasses all other economic areas.... Provide for their own defense - yes Help defend the US? - See 9/11 Back us up in global politics? Ummmm....they did for 70 years till about last week.... What do you get....you get to live in the greatest economic time in the history of the world...among a partnership of liberal democracies that have set the stage for you to sit at your keyboard and spew your ignorance....be happy.... Europe has been a trade competitor for the past 30 years, placing tariffs on our goods and blocking us at every turn. They haven't paid their allotted amounts into NATO since their inception. Your third point is laughable. They had to be dragged kicking/screaming into Afghanistan, and let's not even talk about iraq. They've thwarted us in middle eastern peace negotiations, often taking the side of the palestinians. They helped craft the HORRIBLE JCPOA deal with Iran that stopped nothing. They've acted in their own self-interests, often at the expense of our own. How about you think before YOU type? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IDBillzFan Posted July 19, 2018 Share Posted July 19, 2018 5 hours ago, The_Dude said: He ain’t no Winston Churchill. He ain't no Hillary Clinton, either. Thank God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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