Doc Brown Posted July 14, 2018 Posted July 14, 2018 1 hour ago, 3rdnlng said: Germany is going to shutter its nuclear industry by 2022 and is working on eliminating coal. Its only options will be renewables and gas & oil in the near future. Whether Trump was technically correct at this exact point in time or if he misspoke by not including oil in his original statement, his remarks are/will be true. Now, for practical reasons do you think it is wise for a NATO nation to have nearly all of its energy needs supplied by Russia? The global perspective on him is that he's a liar who can't be trusted and his false statement (no matter how you spin it) reinforces that point. To answer your question. No, it's a horrible idea to increasingly rely more on Russia to meet your energy needs if you're a NATO country with the current state of affairs. Trump's critique of Germany is valid, but I have zero faith in his abilities to do anything about it.
3rdnlng Posted July 14, 2018 Posted July 14, 2018 5 minutes ago, Doc Brown said: The global perspective on him is that he's a liar who can't be trusted and his false statement (no matter how you spin it) reinforces that point. To answer your question. No, it's a horrible idea to increasingly rely more on Russia to meet your energy needs if you're a NATO country with the current state of affairs. Trump's critique of Germany is valid, but I have zero faith in his abilities to do anything about it. Yes, if you ask the left anywhere in the world they will have a lot to say about Trump that isn't very nice.
Iron Maiden Posted July 14, 2018 Posted July 14, 2018 (edited) 18 hours ago, Doc Brown said: Is NATO antiquated? Absolutely. Should other countries be paying more? Yes. My problem with Trump is he always has to be a dick about it. There's a more diplomatic way of doing things that doesn't make you look like a prick to the rest of the world and half the people here. Also, if you're going to call out another country publicly, get your damn facts straight. Like telling reporters that Germany gets 60 to 70% of their energy consumption from Russia when it's really closer to 20%. 100% spot on....I like what he's doing overall...I really disagree about the way he goes about it.....The President of the United States is acting like a prick and our image it taking quite the hit...now, if you do not care about our image around the world, then you don't have to worry about it...I do...so I completely disagree with his methodology...especially the way he goes after our allies....they have to answer to their citizens and insulting their leaders is probably not a good thing to do...just like we don't like being told electing Trump was a big mistake, it's the same for them......Imagine May or Trudeau telling the world how Trump is making bad decisions after bad decisions and telling the world they would have done it differently and with much better results....it wouldn't be a popular move.....I love " America First "...but I do not want an isolationist President.... Edited July 14, 2018 by Iron Maiden 1
IDBillzFan Posted July 14, 2018 Posted July 14, 2018 2 minutes ago, Iron Maiden said: 100% spot on....I like what he's doing overall...I really disagree about the way he goes about it.....The President of the United States is acting like a prick and our image it taking quite the hit...now, if you do not care about our image around the world, then you don't have to worry about it...I do...so I completely disagree with his methodology... Did you agree with Obama's apology tours?
Iron Maiden Posted July 14, 2018 Posted July 14, 2018 (edited) 18 minutes ago, LABillzFan said: Did you agree with Obama's apology tours? I didn't agree with Obama.....on anything....but I liked how he wasn't pissing off most of our allies....despite what some think, we need allies...the us vs the world philosophy doesn't really work in the 2018 reality... Edited July 14, 2018 by Iron Maiden
IDBillzFan Posted July 14, 2018 Posted July 14, 2018 33 minutes ago, Iron Maiden said: I didn't agree with Obama.....on anything....but I liked how he wasn't pissing off most of our allies....despite what some think, we need allies...the us vs the world philosophy doesn't really work in the 2018 reality... The only thing that genuinely matters, in most aspects of any situation, is that you need me more than I need you. The US does more and pays more than everyone and anyone, and in most cases, that is against a combined comparison.They all need the US more than the US needs them, and sometimes they need to be reminded of that. I have no problem letting them know that in unequivocable terms. Think about it? What are these suddenly offended countries going to do? Are they really going to look at Trump and say "You know what, USA, go screw yourself. We're on our own from here on out." Not a batschitphuckingchance in hell.
row_33 Posted July 14, 2018 Posted July 14, 2018 Obama’s US bowed and apologized and gave over $$$ with nothing asked in return what a friend they had in Barrrrrrrr-eeeeee...
Iron Maiden Posted July 15, 2018 Posted July 15, 2018 4 hours ago, LABillzFan said: The only thing that genuinely matters, in most aspects of any situation, is that you need me more than I need you. The US does more and pays more than everyone and anyone, and in most cases, that is against a combined comparison.They all need the US more than the US needs them, and sometimes they need to be reminded of that. I have no problem letting them know that in unequivocable terms. Think about it? What are these suddenly offended countries going to do? Are they really going to look at Trump and say "You know what, USA, go screw yourself. We're on our own from here on out." Not a batschitphuckingchance in hell. What stops the EU + Canada + the UK to simply keep moving without us....they need us, but absolutely can go on without us....what if they get " friendlier" with China ?.....China would love to take these guys off our team and on theirs ....Now, I don;t think this will happen.....despite what Trump is saying, our culture and values are much closer to those countries than China....But acting like WE don't value our allies, economically and militarily, is not good IMO....we are a huge market, but the world can go on without the good ol' USA...I don't want us to piss off our allies to the point where they say enough, and gives us the " Trump " treatment....And I truly believe, that time will come sooner than later....Hopefully I'm wrong...
IDBillzFan Posted July 15, 2018 Posted July 15, 2018 (edited) 11 minutes ago, Iron Maiden said: What stops the EU + Canada + the UK to simply keep moving without us....they need us, but absolutely can go on without us....what if they get " friendlier" with China ?.....China would love to take these guys off our team and on theirs ....Now, I don;t think this will happen.....despite what Trump is saying, our culture and values are much closer to those countries than China....But acting like WE don't value our allies, economically and militarily, is not good IMO....we are a huge market, but the world can go on without the good ol' USA...I don't want us to piss off our allies to the point where they say enough, and gives us the " Trump " treatment....And I truly believe, that time will come sooner than later....Hopefully I'm wrong... Someone is finally calling them out on the free ride they've been getting, and you're worried about how we freaking look to the world? We just spent the last eight years looking like the world's diaper, and NOW you're concerned what the world thinks? Please. What stops the EU and Canada and the UK from moving on without us is that they would be selling their soul, and given they don't have much of a soul to sell, they'll be some other country's prison whore by Monday. You know it. Everyone knows it. Trump is the only one I've ever seen say it. And I don't even like the nutbag, but after the last eight years of Obama bobbing every country's knob, it's kind of refreshing. Edited July 15, 2018 by LABillzFan
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted July 15, 2018 Posted July 15, 2018 14 minutes ago, Iron Maiden said: What stops the EU + Canada + the UK to simply keep moving without us....they need us, but absolutely can go on without us....what if they get " friendlier" with China ?.....China would love to take these guys off our team and on theirs ....Now, I don;t think this will happen.....despite what Trump is saying, our culture and values are much closer to those countries than China....But acting like WE don't value our allies, economically and militarily, is not good IMO....we are a huge market, but the world can go on without the good ol' USA...I don't want us to piss off our allies to the point where they say enough, and gives us the " Trump " treatment....And I truly believe, that time will come sooner than later....Hopefully I'm wrong... Good! Then we can remove our armed forces from around the globe and use them to protect our borders from the hordes of undocumenteds invading our country each year!
/dev/null Posted July 15, 2018 Posted July 15, 2018 (edited) 35 minutes ago, Iron Maiden said: But acting like WE don't value our allies, economically and militarily, is not good IMO....we are a huge market, but the world can go on without the good ol' USA America does value our allies but our allies do not necessarily recognize the value the United States. Nor do you An estimated 90% of international trade is transported by sea. Who dominates the sea and the skies over the sea? Lefties like to cite the fact that the United States spends so much more on defense than the rest of the world powers combined. The exorbitant spending ensures American dominance of the sea and the sky Take away that dominance and what happens to the world economy? The biggest contributor to the world economy is the United States Navy Edited July 15, 2018 by /dev/null 2
Iron Maiden Posted July 15, 2018 Posted July 15, 2018 41 minutes ago, LABillzFan said: Someone is finally calling them out on the free ride they've been getting, and you're worried about how we freaking look to the world? We just spent the last eight years looking like the world's diaper, and NOW you're concerned what the world thinks? Please. What stops the EU and Canada and the UK from moving on without us is that they would be selling their soul, and given they don't have much of a soul to sell, they'll be some other country's prison whore by Monday. You know it. Everyone knows it. Trump is the only one I've ever seen say it. And I don't even like the nutbag, but after the last eight years of Obama bobbing every country's knob, it's kind of refreshing. Let me ask you this...how often to you travel outside if the country? I'm lucky to have the opportunity to do it quite often because of work.....So yeah, I do think about the way we are perceived..... Selling their soul ?...that's a bit dramatic.....my point was we are not indispensable for them to progress......Trump's act will be wearing thin with the other world's leader.....
DC Tom Posted July 15, 2018 Posted July 15, 2018 23 minutes ago, /dev/null said: America does value our allies but our allies do not necessarily recognize the value the United States. Nor do you An estimated 90% of international trade is transported by sea. Who dominates the sea and the skies over the sea? Lefties like to cite the fact that the United States spends so much more on defense than the rest of the world powers combined. The exorbitant spending ensures American dominance of the sea and the sky Take away that dominance and what happens to the world economy? The biggest contributor to the world economy is the United States Navy And there's a reason Japan is building aircraft carriers again... 2
row_33 Posted July 15, 2018 Posted July 15, 2018 Chill its discussion time, a chance to try to get more favourable terms
row_33 Posted July 15, 2018 Posted July 15, 2018 5 minutes ago, Nanker said: TORA TORA TORA!!! Oh yes Captain, you will talk, talk about aircraft carriers.... of the Hornet variety....
Doc Brown Posted July 15, 2018 Posted July 15, 2018 44 minutes ago, joesixpack said: Good! Then we can remove our armed forces from around the globe and use them to protect our borders from the hordes of undocumenteds invading our country each year! That's a horrible idea on so many levels. NATO alone has helped create the longest time of relative peace in Europe in centuries.
row_33 Posted July 15, 2018 Posted July 15, 2018 6 minutes ago, Doc Brown said: That's a horrible idea on so many levels. NATO alone has helped create the longest time of relative peace in Europe in centuries. Turn out the lights the party’s over
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