Trump foreign policy

[B-Man]

Head of Iran Guards announces ‘end of the sedition’
(Agence France-Presse)
Iran’s Revolutionary Guards said Wednesday that the unrest that had rocked Iran over
several days was at an end, and that a maximum of 15,000 people had taken part nationwide.
“Today we can announce the end of the sedition,” Mohammad Ali Jafari, commander of
the Revolutionary Guards, said on its website.

[Deranged Rhino]

4 hours ago, GG said:

 

Dear lord, instead of typing all of that, all you had to do is type "Halliburton" 100 times and saved a lot of effort. 

 

Talk about a distorted view.

 

The distorted view is the one still blindly clinging to a philosophy that has not only been proven to be bunk, but dangerous. Name one, just one neocon regime change war that went the way it was supposed to?

 

... See, you can't. Because they all became cluster!@#$s.

 

Why? Because the neocon leadership by and large are poncy academics whose hubris makes them believe they can ignore reality and history and still accomplish their mission. This same hubris allowed many patriotic men and women to be manipulated by others who made them believe they were serving the best interests of the nation when in reality they were serving different masters. Masters who care not for the USA or its people.

 

This is why the controlling elements of the USIC - who subscribed to this theory - have been shown the door and the Pentagon is calling more of the shots. JSOC and the men and women in command in the service are over being sent to fight proxy armies trained, funded, and "advised" by the same CIA spooks they have to share a FOB with.

 

You've been had. Bigly  But don't worry. The neocons are done - as we've seen for the past year. Their illegal networks are being rolled up, and many of the worst ones are about to be indicted. 

 

************************************

 

You're winning, Iranians. Keep it up. 

Edited January 3, 2018 by Deranged Rhino

[Deranged Rhino]

More good footage. The Iranians are doing everything right so far. Get the security forces on their side and the Mullahs are done. This is an exercise in efficiency... especially considering how "spontaneous" these protests were (ie they're getting help):

 

 

[DC Tom]

11 hours ago, Deranged Rhino said:

**********

This (I think) is a distraction: 

 

Just speculation: Things are in a critical phase in Iran, I imagine the US is helping in various ways and this is a mighty big piece of red meat thrown to the press to get them spastic while operations are being run in Iran. 

 

 

 

[Deranged Rhino]

10 minutes ago, DC Tom said:

 

 

 

 

Perfect.

[GG]

1 hour ago, Deranged Rhino said:

 

The distorted view is the one still blindly clinging to a philosophy that has not only been proven to be bunk, but dangerous. Name one, just one neocon regime change war that went the way it was supposed to?

 

... See, you can't. Because they all became cluster!@#$s.

 

Why? Because the neocon leadership by and large are poncy academics whose hubris makes them believe they can ignore reality and history and still accomplish their mission. This same hubris allowed many patriotic men and women to be manipulated by others who made them believe they were serving the best interests of the nation when in reality they were serving different masters. Masters who care not for the USA or its people.

 

This is why the controlling elements of the USIC - who subscribed to this theory - have been shown the door and the Pentagon is calling more of the shots. JSOC and the men and women in command in the service are over being sent to fight proxy armies trained, funded, and "advised" by the same CIA spooks they have to share a FOB with.

 

You've been had. Bigly  But don't worry. The neocons are done - as we've seen for the past year. Their illegal networks are being rolled up, and many of the worst ones are about to be indicted. 

 

************************************

 

You're winning, Iranians. Keep it up. 

 

So when you're saying that Americans don't have the appetite, what you're projecting is the Twitter generation that needs instant gratification (including you).  Recognizing that tectonic change to ruling regimes take more than one election cycle, only knee jerk reactionaries were expecting a final resolution overnight, instead of at least a decade.  If you were here during the discussions in the early 2000's and surrounding the war, you'd also hear the timelines discussed at that time were about the 2020's, and not something sooner.

 

Considering that the neocon theory was framed around the success of the democratization and westernization of post-war Germany, Japan & Korea, I would firmly count those as resounding success stories.  But since you don't have the capacity to look at this situation objectively, by consistently tying neocons to serving other interests (without ever identifying what those interests are) and consistently distorting reality to suit your deranged narratives, this discussion will go nowhere.

 

But I will ask this, do you for a second think that these 2018 Iranian protests would have occurred if the 2009 protests did not take place, if the Arab Spring never happened, and if there was no Iraq invasion?   And if there's no correlation among those, what is the catalyst?

[Deranged Rhino]

3 hours ago, GG said:

 

So when you're saying that Americans don't have the appetite, what you're projecting is the Twitter generation that needs instant gratification (including you).  Recognizing that tectonic change to ruling regimes take more than one election cycle, only knee jerk reactionaries were expecting a final resolution overnight, instead of at least a decade.  If you were here during the discussions in the early 2000's and surrounding the war, you'd also hear the timelines discussed at that time were about the 2020's, and not something sooner.

 

Yawn. "They're going to greet us as liberators."

 

I've never been under the impression it would be an overnight success - which is why I laughed at that proclamation when it was made DESPITE supporting the war in Iraq initially on this board.

 

The point is not that regime change is incompatible with the Twitter generation, it's that it's incompatible with the US political system. The only way to make it compatible is to CHANGE the system... which is exactly what neocons spent 16 years doing because they care more about themselves than this country and its principles. It takes decades - not one - to enforce regime change through occupation. It takes even longer when you double down on the mistake by outsourcing your military action to proxy armies comprised of jihadists who have NOTHING in common with our cause or mission. 

 

This is a mistake the neocons made war after war after war. The blowback was always the same yet they refused to learn. Because "this time we'll do it better". 

 

3 hours ago, GG said:

 

Considering that the neocon theory was framed around the success of the democratization and westernization of post-war Germany, Japan & Korea, I would firmly count those as resounding success stories. 

 

 This is laughable. 

 

You know what they say about people who don't know their history, don't you?

 

...They say they're probably !@#$ing ignorant neocons who continue to think they're above history rather than learning from it. Neocons failed because they had the hubris to think they can remake history in their image - reality and facts be damned. 

 

Germany is NOT the middle east. The differences in cultures is vast. And to "democratize" Japan it took not one, but two atomic bombs and YEARS of occupation. So yeah, if you're comfortable with millions of deaths, the use of WMD, and a WORLD WAR then sure, regime change can work just great. 

 

I know you have no issues with those things so long as you get more dead Russians under your boot, but thankfully most people aren't insane with blood lust. 

 

3 hours ago, GG said:

But since you don't have the capacity to look at this situation objectively, by consistently tying neocons to serving other interests (without ever identifying what those interests are) and consistently distorting reality to suit your deranged narratives, this discussion will go nowhere.

 

 

Of the two of us, I'm the only one looking at it objectively. History shows my argument is not only correct, but inarguable. The US system and people do not have the will or stamina to execute long term occupation and regime change - which is exactly the tactic the neocons of the 90s and today hitched their wagons to.

 

They're wrong.

 

Because they're poncy academics with no sense of history. Men and women who "play war" in their minds and think that makes them experts.

 

If you think the neocon philosophy is so great - how come they FAILED MISERABLY in the Middle East? It wasn't just 44's fault. At all. After all HRC was following the neocon playbook for her term at State. Look at Libya - that was a neocon job from the start. How did that work out for the people of Libya and the world? 

 

https://nypost.com/2017/12/04/slave-auctions-in-libya-caught-on-camera/

 

Oh... right...

 

How come, IMMEDIATELY after the neocons in State and CIA were shown the door, did ISIS, AQ, and Hezbollah collapse? Are you REALLY blind to this connection and how this is impacting everything else we're seeing? 

 

Saudi Arabia, Lebanon, Syria (about to be) and Iran (about to be) will all have undergone or will undergo regime change in 2017-2018 without a single US boot on the ground or bomb dropped. All within a year of the neocon philosophy being gutted from the mechanisms of power.

 

Again, the neocon legacy is one of FAILURE. Worse, now the victories they assured the world they'd deliver are being brought to them by a Cheetoh tinted hair piece with Twitter-rage. 

 

I !@#$ing love it.  

 

3 hours ago, GG said:

 

 

But I will ask this, do you for a second think that these 2018 Iranian protests would have occurred if the 2009 protests did not take place, if the Arab Spring never happened, and if there was no Iraq invasion?   And if there's no correlation among those, what is the catalyst?

 

This is about as laughable as the left's current attempt to say the dossier doesn't matter. It's not shifting the goal posts so much as it is pretending your audience are absolute morons.

 

The Iranian protests are happening BECAUSE the neocons in State and CIA were shown the door. Not because of their blunder 14 years ago.

 

The Iranian protests are happening because TRILLIONS of dollars in dirty money was taken off the board in November, as well as MAJOR players in human trafficking and terrorism. Money and monsters who were actively working to PREVENT this kind of uprising from happening. Who was funding these people? Who was working with them, convinced they could "control/change" them? 

 

Oh... right. 

 

You're way behind in this game, friend. Way behind.

 

There's a reason why Hezbollah collapsed, why ISIS collapsed, why AQ is retreating... and it's not because of the neocons. 

 

Edited January 3, 2018 by Deranged Rhino

[/dev/null]

1 minute ago, Deranged Rhino said:

 

There's a reason why Hezbollah collapsed, why ISIS collapsed, why AQ is retreating... and it's not because of the neocons. 

 

[Deranged Rhino]

10 minutes ago, /dev/null said:

 

 

 

Walked into that one.  

 

*******************************

 

Two hours ago... 

 

 

Police surrendering to protesters. 

No violence... 

Edited January 3, 2018 by Deranged Rhino

[Deranged Rhino]

 

Meanwhile, the regime is using plainclothes agents, posing as protesters, to cause violence: 

 

 

Notice the scars on the main dude (and the look of the rest). These are Revolutionary Guard, not citizens. 

[GG]

12 minutes ago, Deranged Rhino said:

 

 

 

Walked into that one.  

 

*******************************

 

 

 

Only in your world did the neocons have any say in foreign policy during Obama's administration.   Trump's foreign policy is a hell of a lot closer to Bush's last term, and that's why the dominoes started falling again. 

 

But keep looking for the connections where there aren't any, such as Lybia.  Please square the neocon argument for a leading US role in world affairs and leading from behind?   That should be a good long explanation.

 

BTW, given your obsession with the deep state and personal enrichment that was driving decisions, which three countries were the biggest opponents of the second Iraq invasion?  And what happened to the leaders of those three countries after they left power and where did their money come from?

 

 

[Deranged Rhino]

3 minutes ago, GG said:

 

Only in your world did the neocons have any say in foreign policy during Obama's administration.   Trump's foreign policy is a hell of a lot closer to Bush's last term, and that's why the dominoes started falling again. 

 

But keep looking for the connections where there aren't any, such as Lybia.  Please square the neocon argument for a leading US role in world affairs and leading from behind?   That should be a good long explanation.

 

BTW, given your obsession with the deep state and personal enrichment that was driving decisions, which three countries were the biggest opponents of the second Iraq invasion?  And what happened to the leaders of those three countries after they left power and where did their money come from?

 

 

 

The neocon influence at State and CIA existed during 44's term. HRC's deputy was Nuland for Pete's sake. 

 

The difference between you and I is you believe the executive is the seat of power in this country. That hasn't been the case since 1963.

 

I respect you, I like you a great deal (even when we butt heads), but you should really do yourself a favor and dig into the recent purges in KSA and how THAT'S the real trigger for the dominoes that are falling. Seriously, it's all there if you do the legwork. 

[GG]

2 minutes ago, Deranged Rhino said:

 

The neocon influence at State and CIA existed during 44's term. HRC's deputy was Nuland for Pete's sake. 

 

The difference between you and I is you believe the executive is the seat of power in this country. That hasn't been the case since 1963.

 

I respect you, I like you a great deal (even when we butt heads), but you should really do yourself a favor and dig into the recent purges in KSA and how THAT'S the real trigger for the dominoes that are falling. Seriously, it's all there if you do the legwork. 

 

One staffer of a one term Secretary of State, who was neutered by Obama's flunkies is your evidence that neocons controlled foreign policy?  M'kay.

 

No, the difference between you and me is that I don't believe in a shadowy conspiratory cabal that is running the country or the world.  If that were the case, you wouldn't have such wild swings in policy and actions.

 

Funny how you cling to the DoD build up after 2001 as evidence of Deep State power, but ignore the "peace dividend" that  gutted the DoD between 1992 and 2000.  If Executive didn't have the power as you claim, there's no way DoD budget goes below 3%

[/dev/null]

2 hours ago, Deranged Rhino said:

 

Meanwhile, the regime is using plainclothes agents, posing as protesters, to cause violence: 

 

 

Notice the scars on the main dude (and the look of the rest). These are Revolutionary Guard, not citizens. 

Holy crap I think I used to work with that guy (or his doppleganger).  Except he wasn't as heavy and identified as White Hispanic not Arabic (or Iranian).  He could speak some funny words which I always thought was Spanish

[Deranged Rhino]

2 hours ago, GG said:

 

One staffer of a one term Secretary of State, who was neutered by Obama's flunkies is your evidence that neocons controlled foreign policy?  M'kay.

 

That's a Tibs level argument. Calling Nuland a "staffer", and presuming she was the only one, is just being willfully ignorant. 

 

But that's okay. It's hard to admit you've been had.

 

Look into the purge in KSA. Look into the connections between several of the men detained and the USIC. Look into their connections to not just Sunni terrorism but Shia terrorism as well. 

 

We're living through a great moment of change. Start paying closer attention or you're going to miss a truly historic moment.

3 minutes ago, /dev/null said:

Holy crap I think I used to work with that guy (or his doppleganger).  Except he wasn't as heavy and identified as White Hispanic not Arabic (or Iranian).  He could speak some funny words which I always thought was Spanish

[GG]

2 hours ago, Deranged Rhino said:

 

That's a Tibs level argument. Calling Nuland a "staffer", and presuming she was the only one, is just being willfully ignorant. 

 

But that's okay. It's hard to admit you've been had.

 

Look into the purge in KSA. Look into the connections between several of the men detained and the USIC. Look into their connections to not just Sunni terrorism but Shia terrorism as well. 

 

We're living through a great moment of change. Start paying closer attention or you're going to miss a truly historic moment.

 

If I understand you correctly Victoria Nuland ran the entirety of the foreign policy operation for the Obama administration, and that makes his administration captive to neocons.  

 

And why do you keep harping on Nuland?  Oh, that’s right - she provided verbal assistance to the Ukranian government that was overrun by Russian operatives.  Funny how you fail to cheer anyone who wants to free themselves from the Russian yoke.  And before you chime in with your wrongful assertion that CIA provoked the Russians through Ukranian proxies, you should check the timelines of  exactly when the provocations started and who started it. 

 

Lastly, are we to believe that a Shiite regime that’s survived nearly 40 years through insurrections, wars, sanctions and a concerted US effort to undermine it, but now also armed with gifted billions from Obama, is suddenly on the verge of collapse within a month of a Sunni prince jailing some of his cousins?  It was really that easy and simple?   

 

Who knew?

[3rdnlng]

3 minutes ago, GG said:

 

If I understand you correctly Victoria Nuland ran the entirety of the foreign policy operation for the Obama administration, and that makes his administration captive to neocons.  

 

And why do you keep harping on Nuland?  Oh, that’s right - she provided verbal assistance to the Ukranian government that was overrun by Russian operatives.  Funny how you fail to cheer anyone who wants to free themselves from the Russian yoke.  And before you chime in with your wrongful assertion that CIA provoked the Russians through Ukranian proxies, you should check the timelines of  exactly when the provocations started and who started it. 

 

Lastly, are we to believe that a Shiite regime that’s survived nearly 40 years through insurrections, wars, sanctions and a concerted US effort to undermine it, but now also armed with gifted billions from Obama, is suddenly on the verge of collapse within a month of a Sunni prince jailing some of his cousins?  It was really that easy and simple?   

 

Who knew?

You and DR, ready to go at it again. Should I stock up on popcorn or forget it all?

[Azalin]

33 minutes ago, 3rdnlng said:

You and DR, ready to go at it again. Should I stock up on popcorn or forget it all?

 

I like it. Two informed people engaged in a very lengthy back & forth, each giving as good as they get?

 

That's exactly what I was hoping PPP would be.

 

Would that there was more of this, and less of the kindergarten-level trolling.

 

 

[Deranged Rhino]

2 hours ago, GG said:

 

If I understand you correctly Victoria Nuland ran the entirety of the foreign policy operation for the Obama administration, and that makes his administration captive to neocons.  

 

Incorrect. She is one example I used because of her prominence and (lengthy) service through multiple administrations but she is just one of many. There were hundreds of career State officials shown the door. Hundreds more at Langley. 

 

2 hours ago, GG said:

And why do you keep harping on Nuland? 

 

Because of her record and who she's married to. You're talking about the neocon power couple. To write her off as insignificant is just inaccurate. She's a very visible example of how despite a changing of the guard in the Oval, the actual "boots on the ground" career State and Langley folks don't magically change their philosophies. Her tenure didn't begin and end with HRC. 

 

2 hours ago, GG said:

 Oh, that’s right - she provided verbal assistance to the Ukranian government that was overrun by Russian operatives.  Funny how you fail to cheer anyone who wants to free themselves from the Russian yoke.  And before you chime in with your wrongful assertion that CIA provoked the Russians through Ukranian proxies, you should check the timelines of  exactly when the provocations started and who started it. 

 

Nuland is on tape urging police to shoot protesters in order to escalate the protests. This isn't conspiracy. It's on tape. This is in addition to supporting and funding known and ardent Nazis to oppose the Russian influence. Not bullshite Nazis but the real deal fukkheads. And this just one of most open source example of this kind of malfeasance undertaken for the neocon cause without any regard to potential (and inevitable) blow back. The only reason it didn't work is because 44 balked and Putin called his bluff. 

 

2 hours ago, GG said:

 

Lastly, are we to believe that a Shiite regime that’s survived nearly 40 years through insurrections, wars, sanctions and a concerted US effort to undermine it, but now also armed with gifted billions from Obama, is suddenly on the verge of collapse within a month of a Sunni prince jailing some of his cousins?  It was really that easy and simple?   

 

Who knew?

 

That, shockingly, is not at all what I'm saying. It's an oversimplification designed to prevent you from having to look deeper into the connections yourself. 

 

It's all there to see. The names are public. The connections can all be found (and have been found by others so most of the work is done for you by now). You asked many times for names of people running the show, well a whole chunk of them got taken out in that purge. Some of the most vile, contemptible pieces of human refuse were among them.

 

It's not a coincidence that in less than three months since their money, networks, and proxy armies were taken off the board Hezbollah all but abandoned Lebanon, Yemen, and Syria. It's not a coincidence that the current revolution in Iran, though smaller in scale than the ones in 2009, are systematically taking out the regime's ability to counteract the protests (Basij bases, police stations, government buildings all known weapons depots) with the kind of intelligence and precision that only comes from military intelligence. You can see/hear them getting help here:  

 

(That's return fire on behalf of the protesters)

 

And here: (this is an image from a police station being hit by a .50 cal HEIAP round. It was a warning shot... protesters don't have .50 caliber weapons and high incendiary ordinance, let alone the training to do this kind of precision shooting. Immediately after this shot, the police released the prisoners in the building. 

 

 

They're getting help. 

 

Forget the argument about the neocon philosophy for a second and actually consider what I'm saying. 

 

Trillions of dollars were just taken off the board. The heads of major networks of human trafficking, terrorism, and men with the deepest connections to the worst elements of the USIC were swept off the board in one night. The same night Hariri "resigned" while being detained in Saudi Arabia.

 

Just a coincidence.  

 

Then, within days you have the GCC launching serious offensives in Lebanon, Syria and Yemen - followed within a week by a near total Hezbollah retreat. 

 

ISIS and AQ support in Iraq and Syria collapse within the next month. 

 

Still, just a coincidence... Give me a break. That kind of collapse doesn't happen unless the core has been hollowed out and the money has dried up.

 

Now, today, we're getting reports of this:

 

Another sure sign (if true) that the Mullahs are done. 

 

All within less than three months! 

 

This to say nothing of the major upheaval going on domestically (refer to the scorecard listed in the deep state thread listing the CEOs and Congresscritters announcing their sudden resignation or decision not to run for re-election... these are unusual numbers). 

 

Oh, what else is happening today? 

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/north-korea/proposed-talks-don-t-mean-north-korea-s-kim-will-n833991

 

The "rogue regimes" lost their money and support. It's a bottom up operation being rolled up... and now the Mullahs and Kim are in a pickle. 

 

... But it's all happening at the same time coincidentally right?  

 

Don't take my word for it. Do an honest dive into the Saudi Purge and the men detained and their connections. See what you get. I think you'll be surprised. 

 

This is a tremendous moment of change. Not just here in the states, but globally. The evidence of it is getting harder and harder to ignore. 

 

That trend will continue through 2018. 

Edited January 4, 2018 by Deranged Rhino

[Taro T]

Anyone else find it interesting that many (the majority?) of the protesters in Iran are willing to show their faces?  Unlike members of groups like ISIS, Antifa, KKK, etc.