plenzmd1 Posted February 25, 2019 Share Posted February 25, 2019 (edited) 2 minutes ago, Buffalo_Gal said: I hope this goes well. He scares me at a negotiating table when he has more to lose than the other side. OTOH, if Pompeo is leading the discussions and informing Trump of what is realistic etc I feel much better. Edited February 25, 2019 by plenzmd1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo_Gal Posted February 25, 2019 Share Posted February 25, 2019 Just now, plenzmd1 said: I hope this goes well. He scares me at a negotiating table when he has more to lose than the other side. I'm not sure how you figure NK has more to lose than the US. In any event, NK will do what China tells them to. I do not think it is a coincidence that this summit is coming after the trade negotiations between the US and China, and the March 1 deadline on tariffs being pushed back. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plenzmd1 Posted February 25, 2019 Share Posted February 25, 2019 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Buffalo_Gal said: I'm not sure how you figure NK has more to lose than the US. In any event, NK will do what China tells them to. I do not think it is a coincidence that this summit is coming after the trade negotiations between the US and China, and the March 1 deadline on tariffs being pushed back. just like China, their leadership answers to no one and faces no elections. Trump has elections, and specifically primaries coming up...and he wants no part of being primaried( is that the right word?) . These guys know how to hit Trump where it hurts..look at the socialistic bailout for the farmers based on China's reaction to Trump trade war ..they know that's his base. Edited February 25, 2019 by plenzmd1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo_Gal Posted February 25, 2019 Share Posted February 25, 2019 Just now, plenzmd1 said: just like China, their leadership answers to no one and faces no elections. Trump has elections, and specifically primaries coming up...and he wants no part of being primaried( is that the right word?) . These guys know how to hit Trump where it hurts..look at the socialistic bailout for the farmers based on China's reaction to Trump trade war ..they know that's his base. Trump is not going to be primaried. The RNC has made it next to impossible for someone to do so meaningfully. Now, if you mean that President Trump would like the Rs to take back the House next cycle (the Senate does not break well for the Ds in 2020, so it will likely remain in R hands), that I can agree with. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plenzmd1 Posted February 25, 2019 Share Posted February 25, 2019 48 minutes ago, Buffalo_Gal said: Trump is not going to be primaried. The RNC has made it next to impossible for someone to do so meaningfully. Now, if you mean that President Trump would like the Rs to take back the House next cycle (the Senate does not break well for the Ds in 2020, so it will likely remain in R hands), that I can agree with. Hogan gunna go out and get em!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koko78 Posted February 25, 2019 Share Posted February 25, 2019 1 hour ago, plenzmd1 said: I hope this goes well. He scares me at a negotiating table when he has more to lose than the other side. OTOH, if Pompeo is leading the discussions and informing Trump of what is realistic etc I feel much better. What, exactly, does Trump have to lose, and how is it more than what Best Korea has to lose? Besides, do you seriously think that Trump and Kim are going to Hanoi to do anything more than pose for a photo op meeting to agree to an agreement that they've already agreed to? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo_Gal Posted February 25, 2019 Share Posted February 25, 2019 I am still not used to the "new" Lindsey Graham. I keep waiting for him to revert back to his McCain brain. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo_Gal Posted February 25, 2019 Share Posted February 25, 2019 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plenzmd1 Posted February 25, 2019 Share Posted February 25, 2019 1 hour ago, Koko78 said: What, exactly, does Trump have to lose, and how is it more than what Best Korea has to lose? Besides, do you seriously think that Trump and Kim are going to Hanoi to do anything more than pose for a photo op meeting to agree to an agreement that they've already agreed to? as I mentioned above, when dealing with autocrats, dictators, communists etc...the leader of that country has very little to lose. In North Korea's case, from my understanding, a significant portion of the population already lives in poverty, continued sanctions aint making a dent in their lifestyle, its already at rock bottom. ..ya think they gonna revolt and throw him out cause they went from poverty to slightly worse poverty? What does he have to lose relative to his position and his power? He is Supreme Leader for life..POTUS not so much. And no, I don't think the agreement is done by any stretch..sure was not last time. Lets hope more concrete steps, and i think there will be as Trump lowered the bar yesterday to no more testing...it will take steps..hopefully in this agreement we get some verification steps as well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B-Man Posted February 25, 2019 Share Posted February 25, 2019 Progress? Trump delays new tariffs on China, predicts “signing summit” soon . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted February 25, 2019 Share Posted February 25, 2019 1 hour ago, Koko78 said: What, exactly, does Trump have to lose, and how is it more than what Best Korea has to lose? Besides, do you seriously think that Trump and Kim are going to Hanoi to do anything more than pose for a photo op meeting to agree to an agreement that they've already agreed to? Until the China deal is done, the fulfillment of the DPRK deal will remain as a carrot (or stick) to be used by Xi. The agreement to extend sanction talks before leaving was a good indicator things are moving along... but China is still using its influence in the DPRK to secure its own deal. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plenzmd1 Posted February 25, 2019 Share Posted February 25, 2019 7 minutes ago, Deranged Rhino said: Until the China deal is done, the fulfillment of the DPRK deal will remain as a carrot (or stick) to be used by Xi. The agreement to extend sanction talks before leaving was a good indicator things are moving along... but China is still using its influence in the DPRK to secure its own deal. do we have any idea what " good progress" means. I really would like to get from the Trump supporters what a new trade agreement with China should look like..and then compare it to what Trump actually gets compared to where he started the trade war. I mean we know the dude is going to claim total victory, be great to actually judge results against pre-defined criteria. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dpberr Posted February 25, 2019 Share Posted February 25, 2019 1 hour ago, Koko78 said: What, exactly, does Trump have to lose, and how is it more than what Best Korea has to lose? Besides, do you seriously think that Trump and Kim are going to Hanoi to do anything more than pose for a photo op meeting to agree to an agreement that they've already agreed to? IMO, I think the Koreas have already agreed to the end of the Korean War and easing of some sanctions. I think that can still be screwed up. I'm concerned the neocon movement in Washington will not be happy with anything less than their idea of a Korean peninsula in the image of South Korea. If Trump can get the Koreas to end the war and get North Korea on a path mirroring Vietnam's economy, I'd chalk that up to a success. If it were anybody (and I mean anybody) but Trump doing it, we'd be getting him or her fitted for a Nobel Peace Prize. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted February 25, 2019 Share Posted February 25, 2019 2 minutes ago, plenzmd1 said: do we have any idea what " good progress" means. I really would like to get from the Trump supporters what a new trade agreement with China should look like..and then compare it to what Trump actually gets compared to where he started the trade war. I mean we know the dude is going to claim total victory, be great to actually judge results against pre-defined criteria. There are multiple fronts that need to be urgently addressed w/r to China. Number one on that list is IP theft/corporate espionage. That's a boondoggle without an easy answer, but the progress being made on that front are obvious if you've been tracking what's been happening with Huawei and ZTE. A lot of that issue can't be solved by signing a deal, it has to be done at the counterintelligence level... which would be easier if somehow our entire HUMINT network in China hadn't been systematically eliminated during the previous administration (under Mr. Brennan's leadership among others). Almost like that was done as some sort of quid pro quo ... but that's another story. https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/08/us/politics/cia-china-jerry-lee-indictment.html https://in.news.yahoo.com/cias-communications-suffered-catastrophic-compromise-started-iran-090018710.html?guccounter=1 I'll leave it to the economists of the board to give you a more concrete answer to the specific goals, but my point is what they are actually negotiating is much more than an economic agreement. That's the public face of a deal that's much more expansive in scope - hence my comments about the DPRK deal being tied to this one. So it's really important to not look at either of these deals (not just China and the DPRK, but all these trade deals) as being independent of one another even though they're presented as such. The world order is being rewritten - here at home, in Europe, the Middle East, South America and Asia... all at once. That's not an accident. It's evidence of what I laid out in the OP of the Deep State Thread. There's a global shadow war taking place that's going to end up changing the power structure of the world, not just this country. The evidence of it is out there in the open for all to see - but no one in the media or politics is going to cover it. We have to do it for ourselves. 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koko78 Posted February 25, 2019 Share Posted February 25, 2019 1 hour ago, plenzmd1 said: as I mentioned above, when dealing with autocrats, dictators, communists etc...the leader of that country has very little to lose. In North Korea's case, from my understanding, a significant portion of the population already lives in poverty, continued sanctions aint making a dent in their lifestyle, its already at rock bottom. ..ya think they gonna revolt and throw him out cause they went from poverty to slightly worse poverty? What does he have to lose relative to his position and his power? He is Supreme Leader for life..POTUS not so much. And no, I don't think the agreement is done by any stretch..sure was not last time. Lets hope more concrete steps, and i think there will be as Trump lowered the bar yesterday to no more testing...it will take steps..hopefully in this agreement we get some verification steps as well Again, what does Trump lose? At worst, we wind up back where we started - the same place that the last 12 administrations left us. He still wins for actually trying, and getting closer to an agreement than anyone else. You also seem to forget that the sanctions were taking a massive bite out of the regime loyalist's collective asses. They are the ones who can depose Kim, not the rural farmer. The "maximum pressure" sanctions were never going to significantly impact the starving rural Best Koreans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hedge Posted February 26, 2019 Share Posted February 26, 2019 (edited) 7 hours ago, Deranged Rhino said: There are multiple fronts that need to be urgently addressed w/r to China. Number one on that list is IP theft/corporate espionage. That's a boondoggle without an easy answer, but the progress being made on that front are obvious if you've been tracking what's been happening with Huawei and ZTE. A lot of that issue can't be solved by signing a deal, it has to be done at the counterintelligence level... which would be easier if somehow our entire HUMINT network in China hadn't been systematically eliminated during the previous administration (under Mr. Brennan's leadership among others). Almost like that was done as some sort of quid pro quo ... but that's another story. https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/08/us/politics/cia-china-jerry-lee-indictment.html https://in.news.yahoo.com/cias-communications-suffered-catastrophic-compromise-started-iran-090018710.html?guccounter=1 I'll leave it to the economists of the board to give you a more concrete answer to the specific goals, but my point is what they are actually negotiating is much more than an economic agreement. That's the public face of a deal that's much more expansive in scope - hence my comments about the DPRK deal being tied to this one. So it's really important to not look at either of these deals (not just China and the DPRK, but all these trade deals) as being independent of one another even though they're presented as such. The world order is being rewritten - here at home, in Europe, the Middle East, South America and Asia... all at once. That's not an accident. It's evidence of what I laid out in the OP of the Deep State Thread. There's a global shadow war taking place that's going to end up changing the power structure of the world, not just this country. The evidence of it is out there in the open for all to see - but no one in the media or politics is going to cover it. We have to do it for ourselves. Things have really ratcheted up in the last hour with India and Pakistan. Edited February 26, 2019 by Hedge 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeginnersMind Posted February 26, 2019 Share Posted February 26, 2019 (edited) Seems like the 200-300 dead was just chest-thumping. Most camps were abandoned after the attack last week when Modi promised to retaliate. Hope this ends soon with little more than bombing empty fields. I once went to the Wagah Border crossing between India and Pakistan. They have two horseshoe shaped stadiums, one on either side of the border, with the open ends facing the border (and each other). Every day when tensions are not crazy, they open the gates between the stadiums and have this huge pomp and circumstance ceremony on either side of the border with cheering, patriotic music, soldiers posing at each other, people shouting, etc. It ends with the flags being lowered on either side at the same time. This video captures it well. After, people go up to the closed fence and talk to each other across the gates. They sit Euro-looking folk in a "VIP" section that is close to the gates...probably because we were not going to sing along and be as patriotic as the many thousands of others who were having a blast. This is near the city of Amritsar, home of The Golden Temple, which is the hub of the Sikh faith. One of the coolest places I've ever been--I enjoyed it more than the Taj Mahal, although Amritsar is more challenging to get to and stay. Edited February 26, 2019 by BeginnersMind Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B-Man Posted February 26, 2019 Share Posted February 26, 2019 BACKGROUND TO THE TRUMP-KIM HANOI SUMMIT: No one is astonished that North Korea’s criminal regime still has nuclear weapons. In many respects, nukes and ICBMs are Kim’s only bargaining chips. Many, however, are warily amazed that the diplomatic process continues. RELATED: Some thoughts from The Hill on implementing denuclearization. . 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo_Gal Posted February 26, 2019 Share Posted February 26, 2019 Exclusive: HSBC probe helped lead to U.S. charges against Huawei CFO An internal investigation by HSBC Holdings PLC into Huawei Technologies’ connections to a suspected front company in Iran found that the Chinese telecommunications equipment maker maintained close financial ties to the firm years after purportedly selling the unit, documents reviewed by Reuters show. </snip> 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deranged Rhino Posted February 26, 2019 Share Posted February 26, 2019 10 minutes ago, Buffalo_Gal said: Exclusive: HSBC probe helped lead to U.S. charges against Huawei CFO An internal investigation by HSBC Holdings PLC into Huawei Technologies’ connections to a suspected front company in Iran found that the Chinese telecommunications equipment maker maintained close financial ties to the firm years after purportedly selling the unit, documents reviewed by Reuters show. </snip> Who sat on HSBC's board for years before joining the FBI? Wonder how much cover he gave the Chinese (and cartels) during his tenure... though it's not as big of a mystery as to why he turned the other way when the Chinese were pilfering Hillary's illegal server set up. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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