Sisyphean Bills Posted December 22, 2016 Posted December 22, 2016 FWIW, do they suggest you do it publicly or internally? Suppose one of the owners of an organization doesn't have a great affinity for local media due to its treatment of him from the beginning and he says internally "This report is patently false, and unless someone strongly objects, we're not going to give these dolts the satisfaction of indulging this bull **** publicly. They're clowns, and they're gonna write what they're gonna write. At the end of it all they'll be exposed for the frauds that they are. Sorry, Rex, but the pressers are gonna suck for the rest of the season. You up for it?" Hunh? This is a public relations issue. Who handles a public relations issue for their business by doing a one-on-one in a break-out room?
Hapless Bills Fan Posted December 22, 2016 Posted December 22, 2016 (edited) Do you all realize that the self-important tool who writes that uninformed garbage has virtually no idea what is actually happening on a football field? I have literally coached middle school kids who have a superior understanding of this game than that guy does. In addition he also has no real idea what is going on in the front office because nobody there has any respect for him as a writer or as a person. This board will likely have 100+ posts written this week that are more knowledgeable and insightful than anything you'll ever read from that clueless self-promoting blowhard. I don't think that's true, actually, and bear in mind that I've little respect for what Sully has become. But back in da day - the '80s and so - Sully did used to show that he knew his football. IMO of course. This is an example of a broken clock being correct twice a day. In this instance, Sullen is partially correct, but his motivation is BS. He is correct that Rex has shown a lot of class and dignity. He is correct that ownership should have squelched this story - in fact, it should have done so within minutes of La Canfora's hit piece. He is correct that Rex should not have been allowed to twist in the wind while others seem to be hiding. On the other hand, I think that Sullen is making these points mostly as a result of his overarching animosity toward the Pegulas (which he gives away in the article). He and his buddy Bucky really like to grind their axes with them. Regarding Whaley, I can understand why he has no interest in accepting an interview request with Sullen etc. when they already have made up their minds and drafted (in their minds) their articles criticizing him. That is not to say that Whaley is beyond criticism. Moreover, if any of these reports are true and if they are coming from him or people under him, he has to go. I do not like a GM or others under him trying to anonymously throw the head coach under the bus - at any time and especially when it happened. I think we're forgetting the "Whaley went rogue" brohaha and several others (the "ultimatum"). There's a "Leaky Peter" in the Bills organization; I don't think it makes sense for it to be Whaley. I think it's someone in the FO who has been here a long time and become a trusted source to Carucci etc. They have good access, but not top level, so they get things wrong as though they're repeating water-cooler talk that got distorted a bit, or ideas that were kicked around but weren't the organizations final decision. I mean, think about it, why on earth would Whaley leak that Rex will be fired 2 weeks ago? How would that help or advantage him, especially after it's seen to not happen? Edited December 22, 2016 by Hapless Bills Fan
Mr. WEO Posted December 22, 2016 Posted December 22, 2016 I think the blame for most of this goes right on Pegula(s). Whether Rex is a good coach or not..whether he wants to pass the ball or run...has a winning season or not....it might not have mattered much. You NEED your coach and GM to be on the same page (or at least in the same chapter. By not allowing Whaley to make the coaching hire, Pegula is the one that made the decision to get to this point. If they really REALLY wanted Rex and wanted him as the 'figurehead' of the team, they they should have asked him to look over a list of GM candidates that he thinks he can work with and share his philosophy. If they REALLY wanted Whaley as the GM, they should have let HIM pick his own coach. I'm not a huge fan of Sullivan and his style of confrontational writing, but I am agreeing with him more and more with the Pegulas...they just seem like they sometimes operate as amateurs. Yes, they are new at the game, but they haven't brought in experienced people with either team to guide them, and then look the situations that just look bad for the teams (Lafontaine, "Lidny's not going anywhere", promoting Rolston, Ted Nolan, bypassing whaley in hiring of Rex, how Marrone left......some of this may not be their fault, but a lot of it could have been avoided.) Everything I have bolded in your post has proven to be untrue. Whaley was the guy they "brought in" to guide them in selecting a HC. Whaley was crystal clear at the time that he Rex was the guy he was "on the same page with". He said so himself. You and others can repeat the "Whaley should be allowed to pick his own HC" all you want, but the fact remains that 2 years ago, he did just that.
HT02 Posted December 22, 2016 Posted December 22, 2016 http://buffalonews.com/2016/12/20/whaley-fiddles-ryan-burns/ Buffalo News has been putting out some excellent articles the past several weeks about the Bills. I agree and everything Sully says in this article I am in agreement with.
Sisyphean Bills Posted December 22, 2016 Posted December 22, 2016 Assuming the articles written about Rex being canned at year end are all true, as was questioned here, I do think Rex has been told he'll be gone at year end, or if not outright, reading the tea leaves he knows he's gone. So what's Whaley supposed to do, support Rex state the articles are all false then fire him in ten days, or even worse, publicly NOT give him a vote of confidence. If the rumors are all true, I think silence by Whaley makes the most sense. Reading the PFW article, sounds like the Bills are parting ways more as it said they've grown tired of Rex's act than based on actual coaching, so again makes most sense to say nothing. If the Bills are officially eliminated this weekend which likely will happen, wouldn't be surprised to see them can Rex on Monday as the questioning will be relentless, particularly if Rex has already been told he's done at the end of the year. Maybe that was part of Rex's deal, let me stay until we're officially out of it. Regardless of the job—it could be dog-catcher—if management knows a guy isn't working out and has made the decision to move on, then the best course forward for everyone is to execute that decision. The Bills save no money here. They aren't doing Rex a solid by this. Dumping him now or in 10 days wouldn't change that they hired a well-known name coach and only gave him two years. It doesn't wipe the egg off their faces. It just comes off as ... amateur.
PromoTheRobot Posted December 22, 2016 Posted December 22, 2016 Looking forward to the "scathing" follow up on all the Whaley "toxic" signings that are going to the pro Bowl.
Bill from NYC Posted December 23, 2016 Posted December 23, 2016 Looking forward to the "scathing" follow up on all the Whaley "toxic" signings that are going to the pro Bowl.Exactly! The playoff appearances will shut the media up as well.
Rico Posted December 23, 2016 Posted December 23, 2016 Exactly! The playoff appearances will shut the media up as well.
Hapless Bills Fan Posted December 23, 2016 Posted December 23, 2016 (edited) Looks like you got it crooked. 1. The media reported an alleged leak that Rex would be fired. 2. No one from within the organization has come forward and denied this leak. 3. Sullivan called this amateur hour antics by a group of amateurs. FWIW, in Management 101, they teach one to get out in front of rumors and not let them fester and boil over across your entire organization. Good management wants Johnny Worker B. focusing on building widgets, not hanging out by the water cooler talking about the next pink slip parade and how much the company sucks. Don't think I got it crooked at all. The media didn't report an "alleged leak", the media reported that Rex would be fired (source in the organization, ie unless they lied, no allegation about the leak) It's not inappropriate for "the organization" to deny an erroneous report, but it's also pretty clear after the timing passed and Rex wasn't fired, the report was erroneous. That was followed up by another leak saying he'd be fired at the end of the season. There are people whose job it is press releases and PR and to make decisions about publicity for the organization. Whaley is not one of those people, nor does he have "fate control" over Rex, not at all. So calling out Whaley for failing to step forward and deny a "burning" crisis regarding Rex he didn't create makes no sense, even if one stipulates that you're correct in your assumption that the "leak" should be denied by the organization. Me, I think that Rexy can best be focused on "building a game plan" in the face of false "leaks" to the press by internal, not external, communication. You're really not talking about rumors boiling over the organization or "management 101" here; you're talking about informing the public and the press (PR), not the same thing at all. Edited December 23, 2016 by Hapless Bills Fan
flmike Posted December 23, 2016 Posted December 23, 2016 I don't think things are as bad as people are saying. The team is 7-7, and 9-7 is still on the table. Without any real passing offense and a ton of injuries, including not getting much of anything out of the team's 1st and 2nd round picks. Am I crazy? Why does anyone, let alone everyone, have to be fired? Nobody is perfect. The Patriots blow a lot of draft picks but it doesn't matter because they pick up budget FA who fit their system and they have Brady, who never loses and never has a bad game. Ever. Because they had a cakewalk of a schedule. That's why.
Saxum Posted December 23, 2016 Posted December 23, 2016 Sully should be gone for the quality of his reporting. Sully is NOT a reporter, he has stated so, so should not be given press access. Do you all realize that the self-important tool who writes that uninformed garbage has virtually no idea what is actually happening on a football field? I have literally coached middle school kids who have a superior understanding of this game than that guy does. In addition he also has no real idea what is going on in the front office because nobody there has any respect for him as a writer or as a person. This board will likely have 100+ posts written this week that are more knowledgeable and insightful than anything you'll ever read from that clueless self-promoting blowhard. That is not nice thing to say about plenzmd, may be true but not nice.
Saxum Posted December 23, 2016 Posted December 23, 2016 The leaks make the whole organization look bad, and the management should deal with that. Not even a press release since the first leak is a bad sign. It makes them look culpable, guilty. Until Whaley addresses those concerns in a fair way not on "Western New York's sports leader," he's guilty as charged. Have you addressed the rumors that you are a child molester? Are you saying that is baseless accusation? Same thing here - it is fact free statement and should be ignore other than telling crock of crap IF he went to a game or press conference (which he does not) he smells but despite that does not provide nutrients to plants so he is worse than crap. An anonymous source has NO value and should not treated as anything needed to be validated. If it is brought up in press conference the person bringing it up should be ridiculed as a fool.
TPS Posted December 23, 2016 Posted December 23, 2016 A couple statistics on Whaley' draft record. First, I've always believed he should be judged since the 2014 draft because that's the first draft he was both in control and when "his guys" -- monos and fisher -- were on board. Regardless, I'll go back to 2013, the EJ draft. A total of 28 players were drafted. 20 are still with the Bills in some capacity. Add the shady for Kiko trade, and 21/28 (75%) are still with the bills. Only ONE draftee is not attached to an NFL roster, tony steward, who has an injury history, but was still picked up by the Pats then Saints after being released. Getting rid of Whaley is about as stupid as Sullivan's article...
Peter Posted December 23, 2016 Posted December 23, 2016 A couple statistics on Whaley' draft record. First, I've always believed he should be judged since the 2014 draft because that's the first draft he was both in control and when "his guys" -- monos and fisher -- were on board. Regardless, I'll go back to 2013, the EJ draft. A total of 28 players were drafted. 20 are still with the Bills in some capacity. Add the shady for Kiko trade, and 21/28 (75%) are still with the bills. Only ONE draftee is not attached to an NFL roster, tony steward, who has an injury history, but was still picked up by the Pats then Saints after being released. Getting rid of Whaley is about as stupid as Sullivan's article... I am not clamoring for getting rid of DW unless he is responsible for the leaks and/or throwing the head coach under the bus.
jms62 Posted December 23, 2016 Posted December 23, 2016 A couple statistics on Whaley' draft record. First, I've always believed he should be judged since the 2014 draft because that's the first draft he was both in control and when "his guys" -- monos and fisher -- were on board. Regardless, I'll go back to 2013, the EJ draft. A total of 28 players were drafted. 20 are still with the Bills in some capacity. Add the shady for Kiko trade, and 21/28 (75%) are still with the bills. Only ONE draftee is not attached to an NFL roster, tony steward, who has an injury history, but was still picked up by the Pats then Saints after being released. Getting rid of Whaley is about as stupid as Sullivan's article... Damn if life was that simple and you can change the parameters as you see fit to fit your narrative.
TPS Posted December 23, 2016 Posted December 23, 2016 Damn if life was that simple and you can change the parameters as you see fit to fit your narrative.I suppose you want to define the parameters "pot"?How far back does Whaley get the blame/credit?
San-O Posted December 23, 2016 Posted December 23, 2016 "Well, it could be that Whaley doesn't want to explain how it is that the Bills have fewer of their own draft picks on the active roster than any other team in the NFL, as Tim Graham laid out in his Monday column. Or perhaps Doug doesn't care to tell us why he gets credit for the good moves that were made before he became general manager, while the bad ones get laid at the feet of former GM Buddy Nix. Whaley could explain why the Bills still don't scout underclassmen until they declare for the draft, or why they take so many guys who are hurt, or why he didn't do more to bolster his depth at wide receiver when he knew Sammy Watkins had a serious injury."
Rico Posted December 23, 2016 Posted December 23, 2016 (edited) Just saw this on BZ, Mike Lupica hit it out of the park the other day: http://www.sportsonearth.com/article/212001194/buffalo-bills-most-dysfunctional-team-nfl?partnerId=as_mlb_20161221_68912076&adbid=811635005193535488&adbpl=tw&adbpr=595667888 Hope this is a sign of more national attention to come. MAKE THE BILLS GREAT AGAIN! DRAIN THE SWAMP, PEGS! Edited December 23, 2016 by Rico
Augie Posted December 23, 2016 Posted December 23, 2016 I've read nothing in this thread other than the title and all I have to say is: Shocking! (OK, maybe not so much...)
Peter Posted December 23, 2016 Posted December 23, 2016 Just saw this on BZ, Mike Lupica hit it out of the park the other day: http://www.sportsonearth.com/article/212001194/buffalo-bills-most-dysfunctional-team-nfl?partnerId=as_mlb_20161221_68912076&adbid=811635005193535488&adbpl=tw&adbpr=595667888 Hope this is a sign of more national attention to come. MAKE THE BILLS GREAT AGAIN! DRAIN THE SWAMP, PEGS! In the article, Lupica states: "On Wednesday morning, I asked my old friend Jerry Sullivan, a terrific columnist for The Buffalo News, just how dysfunctional the Bills are." That raises the following questions: Who knew Sully had any "friends" other than Bucky? Why would Lupica admit that he is a friend? What does that do to Lupica's credibility when he describes Sullen as "a terrific columnist"?
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