BringBackOrton Posted December 21, 2016 Posted December 21, 2016 (edited) While I consider Williams to be a big loss at safety....jmc does have a point here. All teams are playing injuries at this point in the season. Rex Ryan's defense scheme is flawed (in my opinion) This is a good arguement.....I actually am trying to get someone to convince me that RR's D can work. Preston Brown is not going to be the LB that Reggie Ragland is gonna be (imo) Of course he's a big loss. But if losing a single above average player causes a defense with 3 Pro Bowlers and a 10+ sack per year player to suck, it means your coach sucks. Every team has big losses. Houston is still killing it and they lost Watt, a player way more valuable than Aaron Williams. Edited December 21, 2016 by jmc12290
hondo in seattle Posted December 21, 2016 Posted December 21, 2016 I want to know what is going to change about this defense if Rex stays..... Seriously I'd like to know, too. Maybe Rex is a simpleton and his plan to field a better D next year is to simply allow some guys to heal. But while it's debatable if Rex is a good HC/DC, I'm pretty sure he's not a simpleton. I think he'll do what coaches do: examine what went right and what went wrong. Then he'll try to reinforce what went right and correct what went wrong. Will he be successful? I'm not sure. I'm certainly not confident. But I don't think it's unreasonable to give a HC three years to make things right.
USABuffaloFan Posted December 21, 2016 Posted December 21, 2016 I would retain him if he gives up control of his defense completely. But to be honest I would rather keep Lynn as OC and all other position coaches and go get Philips or Schwartz as HC. We should have made Schwartz HC after Marrone left for continuity and reward for his defense. I personnelly think we are cursed and should bring back the coach who took us to the playoffs 2-3 years he was HC and got fired after being 8-8. Just don't let him hire position coaches again, lol.
Buffalo Boy Posted December 21, 2016 Posted December 21, 2016 Are you kidding me does everyone want more of the same next year THIS!!!!!
jaclynrea21 Posted December 21, 2016 Posted December 21, 2016 C'mon it's never truly more of the same. The "same" for him is better than the average for the length of the drought. The odds of improving are greater with him, and the evidence for a total flame out is not yet there for a truly undisputed firing. He should get another year. The goal, at this point, is clearly to make the playoffs...it's not to have the perfect team that looks/plays/acts like we all want. Rex is the best answer to making a real push to hit our goal next year. The push to make the playoffs was his first year and his second year, now we want more.. OK THIS!!!!! no THAT!!!!!
genosmith Posted December 21, 2016 Posted December 21, 2016 I'd like to know, too. Maybe Rex is a simpleton and his plan to field a better D next year is to simply allow some guys to heal. But while it's debatable if Rex is a good HC/DC, I'm pretty sure he's not a simpleton. I think he'll do what coaches do: examine what went right and what went wrong. Then he'll try to reinforce what went right and correct what went wrong. Will he be successful? I'm not sure. I'm certainly not confident. But I don't think it's unreasonable to give a HC three years to make things right. According to people who actually look at film and understand defense (unlike 99% of posters here including myself) he has made the defense more simple this year because Bills cant handle too complicated. Last year he tried to incorporate his style with 4-3 to help players (unlike every1 who says he tried to force 3-4 completely) and was too complicated. With regard to injuries, their top and highest paid defensive player has been out half the season. Their best safety is gone. Also, Corbin Bryant is gone and Hughes has been playing hurt. Either way no Mario (washed up anyways), Dareus out half the year, Hughes injured, Aaron Williams gone,-DOES NOT ADD UP TO #4 DEFENSE ANYMORE-GET OVER IT. And the players doing well Lorenzo and ZBrown are castoffs from other teams which he should also get credit for. Get more guys like that, and get rid of losers like Mario and Dareus (won't happen but not good to have him as your highest and best defender-obviously good but cant be relied upon) and the defense will be better. Rex had great defenses with Jets. even last year with Jets when had worst secondary in the league he was competitive against tough schedule. You were coming off 9-7 season and your coach and Qb quit. Greatest strength of team was d-line which contains two 30 year olds who got injured/washed up and pothead. Your best safety has been injured last two years. Lost your best linebacker. And had no first round pick. (not to mention this years was out half season and second rounder gone). You should be happy with 7-7. If he didn't bring in Tyrod and Incognito it could be worse!!!
jaclynrea21 Posted December 21, 2016 Posted December 21, 2016 Bills fans are suckers. A win against the Browns and some are reconsidering. Lol.[/quote Surprised it's this close. Thought it would be a landslide to fire him. You are so right. Fans are like sex, what have you done for me lately.They one "A" game against a 0-13 team that really sucks. Now people think Rex can coach. stupid auto spell They won "A" game
Miyagi-Do Karate Posted December 21, 2016 Posted December 21, 2016 I am not a big Rex fan, but who can the Bills get that is better. Exactly.
section122 Posted December 21, 2016 Posted December 21, 2016 Exactly. Who would come to a team where 17-15 after 2 years gets you fired. The expectations would be crushing from the second they take the job.
C.Biscuit97 Posted December 21, 2016 Posted December 21, 2016 Who would come to a team where 17-15 after 2 years gets you fired. The expectations would be crushing from the second they take the job. The Broncos fired their coach after going to a SB and afc title game. We have so low self esteem. This team was 9-7 and not 1-15 when Rex took over. He made the defense worse. He has had 2 winning seasons in his career. But let's just cross our fingers next year that he stops being an average to below coach.
section122 Posted December 21, 2016 Posted December 21, 2016 The Broncos fired their coach after going to a SB and afc title game. We have so low self esteem. This team was 9-7 and not 1-15 when Rex took over. He made the defense worse. He has had 2 winning seasons in his career. But let's just cross our fingers next year that he stops being an average to below coach. I certainly see your point but Elway hired one of "his guys" and the team was obviously on the cusp of something. They had Peyton as Qb and a great defense. Surely you can see how that would be a more attractive opening that Buffalo where the team hasn't made any sort of noise for 15+ years. Love your avatar btw!
KOKBILLS Posted December 21, 2016 Posted December 21, 2016 Exactly. Who would come to a team where 17-15 after 2 years gets you fired. The expectations would be crushing from the second they take the job. There are 32 jobs in the entire world of this nature...It is literally the most coveted position in all of professional sports from a Head Coaching/Manager standpoint...The money is crazy good...The owners in this case are top notch... Furthermore I'll go out on a limb here and say there are PLENTY of qualified candidates who will fully understand why Rex Ryan needed to go... There will be no shortage of qualified candidates who will want the Bills job...One is already on this coaching staff...There is also no shortage of candidates who will be better than Rex Ryan...IMHO folks are allowing the awkward timing and franchise history to warp their judgement...That is leading them to ignore some glaringly obvious deficiencies, and modern NFL philosophy problems, that come with a Rex Ryan led team...
dpberr Posted December 21, 2016 Posted December 21, 2016 Who would come to a team where 17-15 after 2 years gets you fired. The expectations would be crushing from the second they take the job. Marty Schottenheimer was fired after going 14-2 in the 2006 season. Think about that. 14-2. That season was after 2004 and 2005 campaigns where he went 12-4 and 9-7 respectively. Rex going 17-15 is not all that remarkable.
Alphadawg7 Posted December 21, 2016 Posted December 21, 2016 I'm more in line with this take... I guess things change a bit for some folks when you thump yet another crap team... Rex is 4-11 vs teams with a winning record over almost 2 full years now...Nothing has changed really on Defense...The pass D has gotten statistically better, the run D has gotten statistically worse...19th ranked D overall last year, 16th ranked D so far this year...Why does anyone think this is going to change much in 2017? I see the Rex situation like this...Defense is his baby...He's a self-proclaimed defensive guru and he has told us that ad nauseam...If the Defense played better in either one of these years the streak probably would have ended...And if a Rex Ryan lead team can't provide at least a Top 10 Defense, then why have Rex Ryan? Any number of DC's can land the Bills in the middle of the pack defensively, and maybe you get a HC that can provide better game planning, discipline, heck maybe even teach the importance of getting on and off the field properly...Lining up properly...How to run a hurry up...etc...etc... I really like Rex as a person...His personality fits Buffalo and I REALLY wish he was a better HC...But he's not...And more importantly I think there is at least some evidence that his Defense, and his defensive philosophy, has been passed by the league... Well that depends on how you define "winning records"...Rex has beaten at least 6 teams with winning records, but that is based on the time he played the team. If you are going to use "winning" records as the barometer, then to be accurate it has to deal directly with the record of the team at the time we played that team, NOT the end of the year finish. Things change, injuries happen, etc so using what happened to the team AFTER we beat them is not a fair barometer when making a statement of beating a team WITH a winning record at the time we played. Marty Schottenheimer was fired after going 14-2 in the 2006 season. Think about that. 14-2. That season was after 2004 and 2005 campaigns where he went 12-4 and 9-7 respectively. Rex going 17-15 is not all that remarkable. He was fired because his team could not win in the playoffs, something that was not uncommon in his career and the team was making mistakes to beat themselves in those playoff losses. Going into that final season, the team was seen as TOO talented to not make a real run in playoffs and it was basically known that if Marty didn't get the job done in the post season he was going to be in the hot seat. There was also issues with him and the FO that did not help the situation. Its not as cut and dry as your post would make it appear.
KOKBILLS Posted December 21, 2016 Posted December 21, 2016 Well that depends on how you define "winning records"...Rex has beaten at least 6 teams with winning records, but that is based on the time he played the team. If you are going to use "winning" records as the barometer, then to be accurate it has to deal directly with the record of the team at the time we played that team, NOT the end of the year finish. Things change, injuries happen, etc so using what happened to the team AFTER we beat them is not a fair barometer when making a statement of beating a team WITH a winning record at the time we played. Well...You can break it down anyway you want...One of those 4 wins came against a NE team starting their injured 3rd string QB...If you want to over-complicate it there's any number of ways to do it... I think it's pretty simple... Teams that have a winning record so far this year, or finished with one last year...IE...The teams that end up as Playoff teams...The better teams in the NFL... But you can break it down anyway you want to make Rex look better...That's your prerogative...
dpberr Posted December 21, 2016 Posted December 21, 2016 Well that depends on how you define "winning records"...Rex has beaten at least 6 teams with winning records, but that is based on the time he played the team. If you are going to use "winning" records as the barometer, then to be accurate it has to deal directly with the record of the team at the time we played that team, NOT the end of the year finish. Things change, injuries happen, etc so using what happened to the team AFTER we beat them is not a fair barometer when making a statement of beating a team WITH a winning record at the time we played. He was fired because his team could not win in the playoffs, something that was not uncommon in his career and the team was making mistakes to beat themselves in those playoff losses. Going into that final season, the team was seen as TOO talented to not make a real run in playoffs and it was basically known that if Marty didn't get the job done in the post season he was going to be in the hot seat. There was also issues with him and the FO that did not help the situation. Its not as cut and dry as your post would make it appear. That's my point. The "record" isn't the be all, end all of evaluating performance. Keeping Ryan simply because he's gone 17-15 isn't enough of a reason for me personally.
BuffaloHokie13 Posted December 21, 2016 Posted December 21, 2016 Marty Schottenheimer was fired after going 14-2 in the 2006 season. Think about that. 14-2. That season was after 2004 and 2005 campaigns where he went 12-4 and 9-7 respectively. Rex going 17-15 is not all that remarkable. And since then their HC's have been Norv Turner and Mike McCoy, and their record since then is 83-75 which loosely translates to 8.67-7.33 every year for the 9 years from '07 to '15.
Alphadawg7 Posted December 21, 2016 Posted December 21, 2016 (edited) Well...You can break it down anyway you want...One of those 4 wins came against a NE team starting their injured 3rd string QB...If you want to over-complicate it there's any number of ways to do it... I think it's pretty simple... Teams that have a winning record so far this year, or finished with one last year...IE...The teams that end up as Playoff teams...The better teams in the NFL... But you can break it down anyway you want to make Rex look better...That's your prerogative... Im not doing anything other than pointing out that what you wrote is a false statement. And lets talk about this NE win...NE was 3-0 and beat good teams to do so without Tom. I see people on here talking about how good O'Brien is as a coach, and BB just shut him and the Texans out the week before with the same QB before we shut them out. NE was rolling without Brady, and it was not the first time they have done that. So if anyone here is trying to skew something to sell their point it would be what you said...disregarding wins because you have decided to discredit those wins to further your stance against Rex. But the bottom line is that beating NE and in the way we beat them was still a good win for this team. And you act like we didn't have our own issues with not having key players on the field. We were missing our best receiver, best DL, etc. We also were 1-2 and going into just our 2nd game with our new, and first time, OC. That win was no gimme by any means, and you ignoring it to make your case is silly. That Brady-less team still went 3-1...so what about 3-1 is not a "winning" record? Edited December 21, 2016 by Alphadawg7
section122 Posted December 21, 2016 Posted December 21, 2016 There are 32 jobs in the entire world of this nature...It is literally the most coveted position in all of professional sports from a Head Coaching/Manager standpoint...The money is crazy good...The owners in this case are top notch... Furthermore I'll go out on a limb here and say there are PLENTY of qualified candidates who will fully understand why Rex Ryan needed to go... There will be no shortage of qualified candidates who will want the Bills job...One is already on this coaching staff...There is also no shortage of candidates who will be better than Rex Ryan...IMHO folks are allowing the awkward timing and franchise history to warp their judgement...That is leading them to ignore some glaringly obvious deficiencies, and modern NFL philosophy problems, that come with a Rex Ryan led team... Remember the Browns search a couple of years ago where the settled for Pettine? By your reasoning that job should have been snapped up. There is more to it than just saying it is 1 of 32 jobs imo. Some jobs are "good jobs" like Denver with Peyton and some situations aren't like Cleveland a couple of years ago. I could be wrong and am not speaking that I think it is absolutely true but half of the fan base is so rabid for success that every single move is under the microscope. I know we love our Bills but it isn't a glamour job. How often does the team get a sit down with the top candidates. Hell it happened with the Bills where nobody wanted the job (although I think that had plenty to do with Ralph). Marty Schottenheimer was fired after going 14-2 in the 2006 season. Think about that. 14-2. That season was after 2004 and 2005 campaigns where he went 12-4 and 9-7 respectively. Rex going 17-15 is not all that remarkable. And since then their HC's have been Norv Turner and Mike McCoy, and their record since then is 83-75 which loosely translates to 8.67-7.33 every year for the 9 years from '07 to '15. Thanks Hokie as I was going to have to look it up. Those Charger teams were top of the conference and it was a poor move to relieve Schottenheimer of the job. It certainly did not work out for them so I don't think it can be used as an example of why this should happen it just shows that it does happen. It was the wrong move to fire Schottenheimer and the Chargers still haven't found that same success. It did work for the Broncos a couple of years ago and I have already posted about that.
BringBackOrton Posted December 21, 2016 Posted December 21, 2016 (edited) Im not doing anything other than pointing out that what you wrote is a false statement. And lets talk about this NE win...NE was 3-0 and beat good teams to do so without Tom. I see people on here talking about how good O'Brien is as a coach, and BB just shut him and the Texans out the week before with the same QB before we shut them out. NE was rolling without Brady, and it was not the first time they have done that. So if anyone here is trying to skew something to sell their point it would be what you said...disregarding wins because you have decided to discredit those wins to further your stance against Rex. But the bottom line is that beating NE and in the way we beat them was still a good win for this team. And you act like we didn't have our own issues with not having key players on the field. We were missing our best receiver, best DL, etc. We also were 1-2 and going into just our 2nd game with our new, and first time, OC. That win was no gimme by any means, and you ignoring it to make your case is silly. That Brady-less team still went 3-1...so what about 3-1 is not a "winning" record? If you're going to claim that we've beaten lots of "winning record" teams based on their record at the time we played them, let's see a league wide average of that stat. Otherwise it's useless. We may have 6 and all the playoff teams have 8, 9, 10, 11 or 12. Never mind the fact that teams get better as the year goes on as well. Edited December 21, 2016 by jmc12290
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