genosmith Posted December 20, 2016 Posted December 20, 2016 I'd take our talent all day over Jacksonville. And see where the Jags defense ranks now as opposed to where they were when he took over. He improved that defense big time. Can we say the same about Rex? Can argue talent but that's not 2-12 roster. People picked playoffs and haven't had injuries Bills had. Jaguars in points are 28,26,31,28. I know his defense better this year but IT'S HIS 4TH YEAR. didn't improve it for 4 years?????? And by the way, just came out Hughes has been playing injured since September. Rex has not had players for his scheme. I agree not good fit for him. but this Gus Bradley argument is ridiculous. 14-48. top five in draft 5 YEARS IN A ROW.
C.Biscuit97 Posted December 20, 2016 Posted December 20, 2016 Can argue talent but that's not 2-12 roster. People picked playoffs and haven't had injuries Bills had. Jaguars in points are 28,26,31,28. I know his defense better this year but IT'S HIS 4TH YEAR. didn't improve it for 4 years?????? And by the way, just came out Hughes has been playing injured since September. Rex has not had players for his scheme. I agree not good fit for him. but this Gus Bradley argument is ridiculous. 14-48. top five in draft 5 YEARS IN A ROW. Jacksonville are the kings of garbage time. Bortles last year was the biggest fraud. I believe he has like 1 1st quarter td pass in his career IIRC. But the Rex -Bradley comparison are much closer than you think. Especially given Bradley taking over a 2-14 team and Rex taking over a 9-7 team.
genosmith Posted December 20, 2016 Posted December 20, 2016 Jacksonville are the kings of garbage time. Bortles last year was the biggest fraud. I believe he has like 1 1st quarter td pass in his career IIRC. But the Rex -Bradley comparison are much closer than you think. Especially given Bradley taking over a 2-14 team and Rex taking over a 9-7 team. Comparisons based on what. Rex went to two conference championship games with mark Sanchez. Went 8-8 with rookie Geno and no receivers. Taking over injured, old defense that doesn't fit his scheme-agree would be better with Schwartz but not dominant. Please-say he should be fired but comparing him to Bradley is not rooted in any facts.
C.Biscuit97 Posted December 20, 2016 Posted December 20, 2016 Comparisons based on what. Rex went to two conference championship games with mark Sanchez. Went 8-8 with rookie Geno and no receivers. Taking over injured, old defense that doesn't fit his scheme-agree would be better with Schwartz but not dominant. Please-say he should be fired but comparing him to Bradley is not rooted in any facts. Obviously, I can't prove this but I don't Rex being any better than Gus in Jacksonville. I feel like the Bills team Rex inherited is so much more talent than those Jags teams.
dpberr Posted December 20, 2016 Posted December 20, 2016 I voted to fire him. I think what you see is what you get and it is not enough. Two years is enough time IMO. His body of work has had no pause, no break. I think his lack of taking a year off to reflect hasn't made him a better leader and coach.
genosmith Posted December 20, 2016 Posted December 20, 2016 Obviously, I can't prove this but I don't Rex being any better than Gus in Jacksonville. I feel like the Bills team Rex inherited is so much more talent than those Jags teams. Jacksonville has had top five draft picks five years in a row. Plays in an easy division. Spent a lot of money in free agency. People are going to be lining up for that job. With Watkins injured Bills have one of the worse receiving corps in league. With Darues not playing (and not even mentioning Hughes injury) and six safeties hurt this team is not that much more talented than Jaguars. And McCoy missed Pats loss, and was injured vs Dolphins. Darby out vs Oakland=bad secondary. Kyle out vs Steelers=not so great front seven. This team is not superbowl team.
C.Biscuit97 Posted December 20, 2016 Posted December 20, 2016 Jacksonville has had top five draft picks five years in a row. Plays in an easy division. Spent a lot of money in free agency. People are going to be lining up for that job. With Watkins injured Bills have one of the worse receiving corps in league. With Darues not playing (and not even mentioning Hughes injury) and six safeties hurt this team is not that much more talented than Jaguars. And McCoy missed Pats loss, and was injured vs Dolphins. Darby out vs Oakland=bad secondary. Kyle out vs Steelers=not so great front seven. This team is not superbowl team. If you blow a top 5 qb on a qb, it kills everything. Bortles wasn't even good last year but you have to keep playing him. I think Taylor is very replaceable but I would take him over Bortles because he doesn't kill your team with bad turnovers. The Jags have also had terrible free agents signings. It I respect your thoughts and I'll agree to disagree.
genosmith Posted December 20, 2016 Posted December 20, 2016 If you blow a top 5 qb on a qb, it kills everything. Bortles wasn't even good last year but you have to keep playing him. I think Taylor is very replaceable but I would take him over Bortles because he doesn't kill your team with bad turnovers. The Jags have also had terrible free agents signings. It I respect your thoughts and I'll agree to disagree. I know bad Qb kills your team. That's why I'm Rex fan. He went to two championship games with bad Qbs and went 8-8 with Geno. But he had 4 years of building. Rex has never had that. Had to take over teams in the middle and then was fired during rebuild with terrible GM who didnt spend any money like Jags have. Even in last year of Sanchez when had Sanchez throwing to Clyde Gates and Revis injured went 6-10. Rex wins with bad Qbs-at least around .500. Bradley was 14-48!!!!
QCity Posted December 20, 2016 Posted December 20, 2016 Good, because if you want to make the playoffs, you gotta be better than the teams you're supposed to beat. And we are. Consistently. Was that your point? No lol that is so far from my point we might as well be speaking different languages. Forget Rex. I'm saying that if you have any Coach X, coaching any Team Y for 30 games, a reasonable assessment can be made of that coach. You are not going to learn anything new in the final two games (one against a team that doesn't seem to care anymore), and it shouldn't change your opinion of him.
MarkyMannn Posted December 20, 2016 Posted December 20, 2016 When people say he "ruined a great defense," do they understand that "great" defenses tend to last for more than one season? Did they forget that two short years prior to "greatness" we were among the worst--if not the worst--defenses in franchise history? And that the season immediately preceding "greatness" we were 28th in the league against the run? The 2014 references and the pining for its "greatness" make it seem like it was emblematic of some kind of legacy. It wasn't. It was an immediate, sudden and very dramatic spike. We have regressed to "above average." 2010: horrible 2011: horrible 2012: horrible 2013: below average 2014: great 2015: average/above average 2016: above average Can we please toss out the phrase "he ruined a great defense?" Nice post. I was thinking the same thing. I knew one year was really good. Looked up the rest of the years only earlier today, and BLAH
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted December 20, 2016 Posted December 20, 2016 I voted to keep him not because of a win over the Browns but because I'm tired of rinse, wash, repeat with coaches every 3 years I suspect it stops once a good one is found.
MarkyMannn Posted December 20, 2016 Posted December 20, 2016 I'd take our talent all day over Jacksonville. And see where the Jags defense ranks now as opposed to where they were when he took over. He improved that defense big time. Can we say the same about Rex? You over estimate our talent. 22 starters in total average out to mediocre, right where our record is
Big Turk Posted December 21, 2016 Posted December 21, 2016 (edited) I wouldn't be surprised if it's more about what they think about Anthony Lynn and less about Ryan...They can do two things at once... Keep the high scoring offense together and possibly bring in someone to fix the defense... I'd be OK with hiring Lynn as HC and bringing in Bradley for the D... If the D performed better we'd be looking at the playoffs right now...the offense has scored 25+ points 10 times this year and are only 5-5 in those games while most playoff teams are 8-2,7-2,6-1, etc when scoring more then 25 points. If he was brought in to keep the D together and he hasn't succeeded in that two years in a row, I'm not sure what he's hanging his hat on...he admittedly has nothing to do with the offense... Edited December 21, 2016 by matter2003
MarkAF43 Posted December 21, 2016 Posted December 21, 2016 To the bolded how do you feel about that 9-7? I ask because that is what everyone seems to hang their hat on for why Rex ruined this team. That 9-7 was hollow to me as the coach and qb left and it was the best record in 10 years! Agreed. Am I impressed with Rex no not really. Is it fair to not give him 3 years because of the 15 years before he got here? Absolutely not. I understand what you're saying. For me though, looking at it this year, if he manages to pull off 9-7, its insignificant to me. We can't beat any team that sits above our level or even at the level we want to be at, so it really means nothing. And I know the other one is in regards to another comment from another poster, but I can say personally i don't hold the last 15 years against Rex. I look at it strictly from what he has done, and to me it's completely underwhelming and not deserving of a 3rd season.
Big Turk Posted December 21, 2016 Posted December 21, 2016 (edited) I understand what you're saying. For me though, looking at it this year, if he manages to pull off 9-7, its insignificant to me. We can't beat any team that sits above our level or even at the level we want to be at, so it really means nothing. And I know the other one is in regards to another comment from another poster, but I can say personally i don't hold the last 15 years against Rex. I look at it strictly from what he has done, and to me it's completely underwhelming and not deserving of a 3rd season. Then again look at what happened in Cincinnati and Dallas...Marvin Lewis and Jason Garrett kept going within 8-8 for multiple seasons and people wanted to get rid of them and the owners didn't...They rewarded them with playoff appearences and while Cindy has fallen due to complete lack of talent on offense this year after they lost key weapons, Dallas has been one of the best teams in football. Sometimes the best changes are the ones you don't make. Marvin Lewis went 8-8 his first 2 seasons, 11-5 in season 3 and made the playoffs, followed by 8-8, 7-9 and 4-11-1... He HAD to get fired after 1 playoff appearance in 6 years right and bottoming out with that 4 win season right? Right? Had to... Nope...he then rewarded ownership with playoffs 6 of the next 7 years. Garrett went 8-8 3 straight years...Jones was under immense pressure to fire him but he didn't. He hass often said his biggest regret was his handling of Wade Phillips and firing him too quickly...he learned his lesson and stayed with his coach...Dallas went 12-4 the next year and made the playoffs and are among the best teams in football this year... Perfect example of how you need to be careful...Sometimes things don't come together right away and patience can pay bigger dividends than you expect. Edited December 21, 2016 by matter2003
Original Byrd Man Posted December 21, 2016 Posted December 21, 2016 (edited) How about one that asks whether to fire your most successful coach in the past 17 years in less than two years even though the teams has suffered an incredible amount of injuries, suspensions, and substandard QB play. Don't you know those are all Rex's fault. This defense drastically misses Aaron Williams. Also nice to see Gilmore finally playing up to his potential. Edited December 21, 2016 by Original Byrd Man
MarkAF43 Posted December 21, 2016 Posted December 21, 2016 Then again look at what happened in Cincinnati and Dallas...Marvin Lewis and Jason Garrett kept going within 8-8 for multiple seasons and people wanted to get rid of them and the owners didn't...They rewarded them with playoff appearences and while Cindy has fallen due to complete lack of talent on offense this year after they lost key weapons, Dallas has been one of the best teams in football. Sometimes the best changes are the ones you don't make. Marvin Lewis went 8-8 his first 2 seasons, 11-5 in season 3 and made the playoffs, followed by 8-8, 7-9 and 4-11-1... He HAD to get fired after 1 playoff appearance in 6 years right? Nope...he then rewarded ownership with playoffs 6 of the next 7 years. Perfect example of how you need to be careful...Sometimes things don't come together right away. To an extent I'm with you, and I know there are plenty of different circumstances, but as I mentioned, I'm basing it off of what I've seen from him as our HC and the Jets. I originally was all for having him here, but I don't think he has the right mindset to keep up with the NFL of today. To me, he seems to make it more complicated and doesn't let his D go see ball, go get ball, if you're thinking too long its difficult to make a play, and he does not seem to adapt well.
Big Turk Posted December 21, 2016 Posted December 21, 2016 (edited) To an extent I'm with you, and I know there are plenty of different circumstances, but as I mentioned, I'm basing it off of what I've seen from him as our HC and the Jets. I originally was all for having him here, but I don't think he has the right mindset to keep up with the NFL of today. To me, he seems to make it more complicated and doesn't let his D go see ball, go get ball, if you're thinking too long its difficult to make a play, and he does not seem to adapt well. Or you could see it as the more the players play in it, the less thinking they will be doing and the quicker they will play... As Joe Thomas said "If you aren't willing to give a coach 4 years to get it right then you shouldn't hire him in the first place. Things take time to come together." Edited December 21, 2016 by matter2003
MarkAF43 Posted December 21, 2016 Posted December 21, 2016 Or you could see it as the more the players play in it, the less thinking they will be doing and the quicker they will play... As Joe Thomas said "If you aren't willing to give a coach 4 years to get it right then you shouldn't hire him in the first place. Things take time to come together." So how long do you give the players to play in a system? Can the system be that good if it takes more than 2 seasons to get it? After 2 seasons you run the risk of player turnover and more new players to learn it. I'm not completely in disagreement, there are just a lot of questions i struggle with.
Big Turk Posted December 21, 2016 Posted December 21, 2016 (edited) So how long do you give the players to play in a system? Can the system be that good if it takes more than 2 seasons to get it? After 2 seasons you run the risk of player turnover and more new players to learn it. I'm not completely in disagreement, there are just a lot of questions i struggle with. That's where the players who have been there for two years bring the new players along faster... Im on the fence too, but we've already tried the alternative 6 or 7 times before and it has never worked. I think I'm for sticking it out a year or two too long for once and see what happens. Edited December 21, 2016 by matter2003
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