If QB is one of the primary concerns--how can it be fixed?

[K D]

The Bills have options? What the heck are these options you speak of? The only option is pay Tyrod a bajillion dollars even though he stinks or cut him and sign who? Fitzpatrick? What the heck option do we have? Tyrod is better than who will be available except now we have to cut him and chances are he signs elsewhere. He is the one with options, not us

[C.Biscuit97]

 

Greg roman's offense's do not pass - or have poor passing concepts.

 

From 2011 through 2016 his offenses were in the bottom 3 in pass attempts, near the bottom in pass yards, and mostly near the bottom in passing TDs.

 

Even with Alex smith BTW..

Do they not pass because he doesn't want to or because of what he has to work with? Alex Smith was awful before Roman and while he has improved in KC, he will never be a guy that lights it up. How has Kaep looked without Roman? And Taylor is having a worse passing season without Roman.

 

I'm guessing if Roman would have a different game plan if he had Brees or Brady than the guys he had.

 

Taylor has never been a great passing qb. In college, he was under 60% for his career which is a pretty damning stat for NFL people. If anything, he totally outkick his projections last year. The guy he is this year is pretty much what he was supposed to be.

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

Do they not pass because he doesn't want to or because of what he has to work with? Alex Smith was awful before Roman and while he has improved in KC, he will never be a guy that lights it up. How has Kaep looked without Roman? And Taylor is having a worse passing season without Roman.

 

I'm guessing if Roman would have a different game plan if he had Brees or Brady than the guys he had.

 

Taylor has never been a great passing qb. In college, he was under 60% for his career which is a pretty damning stat for NFL people. If anything, he totally outkick his projections last year. The guy he is this year is pretty much what he was supposed to be.

 

It's hard to say because of the concepts they run - and the lack of attempts. Alex Smith was a 70% passer when he was benched for Kaepernick also. In 2011 Alex Smith - a good runner with a quick release was sacked 44 times. Perhaps the offense isn't condusive to QBs...

 

Those teams won 13 and 11 games BTW... with one of the worst passing attacks in the NFL (for all the detractors who say its all the offense and the defense is fine). They won because they had a crazy good defense.

[C.Biscuit97]

 

It's hard to say because of the concepts they run - and the lack of attempts. Alex Smith was a 70% passer when he was benched for Kaepernick also. In 2011 Alex Smith - a good runner with a quick release was sacked 44 times. Perhaps the offense isn't condusive to QBs...

 

Those teams won 13 and 11 games BTW... with one of the worst passing attacks in the NFL (for all the detractors who say its all the offense and the defense is fine). They won because they had a crazy good defense.

The problem with that is your margin of error is so small with run first teams. The 49ers and Seahawks teams that won with that model had all time great type defenses. The run first model asks for a ton out of defense and STs.

 

Additionally, I just don't think Taylor is as good as those qbs. Alex Smith was a former #1 overall pick who is pretty accurate and can keep the chains moving (which helps his defense). Kaepernick was one of the most explosive qbs ever. And Russell Wilson is a total package. Taylor doesn't measure up and it leaves our margin to win so small against good teams.

 

Good thoughts though and I'm enjoying the conversation.

[Ron Burgundy]

Is cutting and resigning Tyrod an option?

 

I mean, paying him a decent QB salary IMO is not worth it but I'd still like to have him hold the reigns while we draft someone.

 

I know it's slim pickings for QB's in this draft year but it's likely at least 2 of the guys coming out are going to be good. I don't know who that is, i would hope Whaley can get it right now. You learn from mistakes right?

 

I realize that, if it's even possible, that TT will be open to be grabbed by someone else but if it's an option does someone grab him?

[JohnC]

 

I'd like to see Tyrod in a different offense with more pro-style sets, route trees and concepts, and a bit of a quicker pace. G-ro's playbook is just filled with formations, but its very basic in the passing game. I'm not sure it's because we had Tyrod, or because that's what he asks his QB to do.

 

But thats me...

TT's offense is limited because he is limited. The OCs he has played for (Lynn and Roman)would have loved to have opened the playbook but there were too many plays that he couldn't execute well enough.

[PolishDave]

TT's offense is limited because he is limited. The OCs he has played for (Lynn and Roman)would have loved to have opened the playbook but there were too many plays that he couldn't execute well enough.

 

You're dead wrong.

 

Roman's offenses were almost always near the bottom of the NFL in passing while being very highly ranked for rushing.

 

It is what he has always done.

 

Roman's offenses from San Francisco to Buffalo

 

2011 - passing ranked 29 rushing ranked 8

2012 - passing ranked 23 rushing ranked 4

2013 - passing ranked 30 rushing ranked 3

2014 - passing ranked 30 rushing ranked 4

2015 - passing ranked 28 rushing ranked 1

 

Roman's Offense executed by Lynn

2016 - passing ranked 31 rushing ranked 1

 

Gee, I wonder if the offense is designed to run or pass. Gee, I wonder if a ground and pound offense has anything to do with the stats being skewed towards more rushing yards and fewer passing yards.

 

People laying the majority of the blame on this for on the QB are misguided or they have some kind of agenda.

 

Every single one of Roman's offenses were built the same way - RUN the ball. And they have all been successful at it.

 

Every single one of Roman's offenses have also had very low passing yards relative to the rest of the teams in the NFL. Every single fricken one.

 

Could it maybe, just maybe be that Greg Roman's offenses suck at producing yards through the air? History says yes. 6 years in a row. The entire time he has been an offensive coordinator. His passing offenses sucked.

[JohnC]

 

I don't disagree that finding a franchise QB in the NFL today is an absolute priority for any team. The definition of what a "franchise" guy is to a particular team is also a fluid scale because teams are built differently and therefore a quality QB to that particular team can look different than say another teams.

 

That being said, I don't fault Whaley at all for our current QB status. First, Nix handcuffed the Bills and Whaley with EJ in Nix last draft because we had no one here after cutting FitzCrapTrick...and they did a good job trading down and gaining value before selecting EJ. Whaley took over after the draft with the Bills having just invested a first round pick in EJ under Nix...I am sure Whaley had input, but it was Nix that put us in a position of need at QB in that draft.

 

in 2014, after EJ showed some promise as a rookie, the team was devoid of playmakers on the offense and Whaley began aggressively fixing that problem the next 2 seasons. Whaley added Watkins, McCoy, Clay, etc but unfortunately EJ never became the guy and in 2015 Taylor came in to compete and won the job. He then went on to earn the right to be the QB of this team in 2016, so can't fault Whaley for getting behind Taylor after he had a surprising and promising first season here. But Whaley also brilliantly recognized that while Taylor fist season was promising, it was not enough to commit ourselves to him and he structure a very fair deal to both sides that put the team in position to keep him a fair price if he continued to improve or move on if he did not. One of the best things any GM has done since he has been a GM in this league.

 

So I don't really see a single thing Whaley did wrong or should have done different during his short time as GM in regards to the QB. Like EJ, Taylor did not take a step forward in his 2nd year as a starter. It didn't help he lost Watkins for large part of the season, McCoy for all/parts of 3 games, as well as Woods, Clay, Glenn, Wood, etc for parts of the season. But he also missed too many open opportunities over the middle where for whatever reason Taylor has really struggled to see the field. Now, Whaley and the Bills are at least not tied to Taylor and have options rather than being stuck with him like many teams have been after doing terrible deals with young QB's in similar situations or Vets who didn't deserve the contract like Cutler and Romo.

With respect to the EJ selection I just don't know what grade Whaley, who was our chief scout, placed on EJ. Even with the drop down in the first round it still was not a value/smart move because he should have had a third round draft grade on him.

 

We can overdose on all the "what ifs" that come in to play in our sordid history of ineffectual qbing. We can list all the good personnel decisions that Whaley has done during his tenure, and he has had many successes. However, it won't matter much in the grand scheme of things if he can't procure a qb that is capable of playing at a much higher level than what we have recently witnessed.

 

Getting the qb position solidified is Whaley's biggest challenge entering into next season. If he doesn't adequately address that issue then the next person waiting in line will be sitting in his former office. Fair or not that is part of the business he chose to be part of. There comes a point where this stopgap approach to the qb position has to stop. It's not good enough and it gets you no where other than watching other teams participate in the playoffs. A generation of futility is long enough.

[BaaadThingsMan]

Keep TT, develop Cardale, draft QBs every year, pray.

[DCbillsfan]

Bortles and James? Really? Have you been living in a secure bomb shelter, cut off from society since August? Bortles has been painfully bad this season. His throwing mechanics are so jacked up...he begins his throwing motion at his ankles.

 

For those wanting Tyrod to restructure his already cap friendly contract...watch him laugh at Whaley and Overdorf, go to Denver and win a ring. Yeesus help me!

No secure bomb shelter but thanks for the laugh. I've actually watched quite a few Jaguars games. They have a terrible record and Bortles does have bad mechanics. His head coach just got fired so maybe the new HC will want a different qb. If you are the Bills, and thank God you and I aren't, they need to consider everything! Teams don't give up QBS who are playing well. This guy is 6'5 and sees the field pretty well. If he gets his mechanics straightened out, I think he could be pretty good imo.

[BaaadThingsMan]

 

You're dead wrong.

 

Roman's offenses were almost always near the bottom of the NFL in passing while being very highly ranked for rushing.

 

It is what he has always done.

 

Roman's offenses from San Francisco to Buffalo

 

2011 - passing ranked 29 rushing ranked 8

2012 - passing ranked 23 rushing ranked 4

2013 - passing ranked 30 rushing ranked 3

2014 - passing ranked 30 rushing ranked 4

2015 - passing ranked 28 rushing ranked 1

 

Roman's Offense executed by Lynn

2016 - passing ranked 31 rushing ranked 1

 

Gee, I wonder if the offense is designed to run or pass. Gee, I wonder if a ground and pound offense has anything to do with the stats being skewed towards more rushing yards and fewer passing yards.

 

People laying the majority of the blame on this for on the QB are misguided or they have some kind of agenda.

 

Every single one of Roman's offenses were built the same way - RUN the ball. And they have all been successful at it.

 

Every single one of Roman's offenses have also had very low passing yards relative to the rest of the teams in the NFL. Every single fricken one.

 

Could it maybe, just maybe be that Greg Roman's offenses suck at producing yards through the air? History says yes. 6 years in a row. The entire time he has been an offensive coordinator. His passing offenses sucked.

I don't know why this info never registered with me before but those,are some bad passing teams. Pretty plain to see. The Roman or Harbaugh offense itself can be successful through the air if it has the right QB. TT and Watkins demonstrated great success in a limited sample last year. I was expecting a big play passing attack to go with the running game they have but it didn't pan out.

[PolishDave]

I don't know why this info never registered with me before but those,are some bad passing teams. Pretty plain to see. The Roman or Harbaugh offense itself can be successful through the air if it has the right QB. TT and Watkins demonstrated great success in a limited sample last year. I was expecting a big play passing attack to go with the running game they have but it didn't pan out.

 

Yup. Greg Roman is the exact opposite of a passing attack genius.

 

Roman is the guy you hire if you don't care about passing the ball much and you want to have a dominant running attack. And that is exactly what the Bills have right now. And yet everyone seems to think it is automatically all the QB's fault that the Bills are near the bottom of the league in passing yards. History suggests otherwise.

 

And we don't know if Lynn is going to do what Roman has always done or if he is going to put more emphasis on passing. It is a giant question mark. Based on everything we have seen, it looks like he is going to trend more towards Roman style.

Edited December 21, 2016 by PolishDave

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

Yup. Greg Roman is the exact opposite of a passing attack genius.

 

Roman is the guy you hire if you don't care about passing the ball much and you want to have a dominant running attack. And that is exactly what the Bills have right now. And yet everyone seems to think it is automatically all the QB's fault that the Bills are near the bottom of the league in passing yards. History suggests otherwise.

 

And we don't know if Lynn is going to do what Roman has always done or if he is going to put more emphasis on passing. It is a giant question mark. Based on everything we have seen, it looks like he is going to trend more towards Roman style.

If we had the 49ers defense, we can win. That was the plan at least. Rex did not deliver on that front.

 

Kc does basically the same thing with smith now. More screens and west coast concepts, but it's mostly just scoring enough to be in close games.

 

I think Lynn will still want to run the ball, as it's a strength of our team and he's a former running back. At the same token u look around the league and see teams moving their #1 receiver all around the formation to get them the ball. Bubble screens, slot routes, mismatchs, swing routes... don't tell me we can't run these plays because of Tyrod. We don't run them because they aren't in the playbook.

Edited December 21, 2016 by dneveu

[PolishDave]

If we had the 49ers defense, we can win. That was the plan at least. Rex did not deliver on that front.

 

Nope. He sure didn't. Isn't it also a little suspect that Rex fired the guy who would be most likely to replace him if things didn't go well this year? Didn't Rex sign up for a good run game and crappy pass game when he brought in Roman? He knew his record and his style. Rex must have agreed with Roman's philosophy to a large degree.

 

Funny thing is Roman actually delivered the same thing he always had. Yet he got fired after a couple games. (i'm glad he is gone because I don't particularly like his style of offense which is to focus your energy on the run game while neglecting the passing game.)

 

And we kept questioning why the ball isn't being thrown more. And why the Bills aren't taking any deep shots. And fans assumed that it must be Tyrod's fault because we just assumed no coordinator would create a game plan that didn't involve a substantial amount of deep passing. But history shows us that Roman's offense has always lacked a passing attack right from his very first year as a coordinator.

 

This was designed to be a run and stop the run team. We got the first part. We did not get the second part.

[Augie]

QB? Not so easy, is it?

[Hardcore Bills Fan]

There is no band-aid for this problem, Draft. PERIOD! An old, broke QB like Romo won't do it and the price will be way to high.

The offense needs to be rebuilt. Shady is getting older, the o-line is getting older, Sammy looks like a bust for what was paid.

Get as high up in the draft as possible without giving away many picks, trading defensive players will accomplish this. Suck it up for the next couple seasons as the rookie QB develops using the high draft spots to fill in the needed spots.

 

Whaley wont do this so he needs to go Jan. 2nd in favor of a GM who has the know how to understand that a good, young QB is needed. Keeping Rex through his contracted years would not be a bad thing seeing as he is defensive-minded and has the young players from DW's past draft's to work with.

 

Bottom line, no more project QB's like EJ or Cardale. TT can be the place holder for a half a season or so till said rook is ready.

 

Just my 2 cents on the issue

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

There is no band-aid for this problem, Draft. PERIOD! An old, broke QB like Romo won't do it and the price will be way to high.

The offense needs to be rebuilt. Shady is getting older, the o-line is getting older, Sammy looks like a bust for what was paid.

Get as high up in the draft as possible without giving away many picks, trading defensive players will accomplish this. Suck it up for the next couple seasons as the rookie QB develops using the high draft spots to fill in the needed spots.

 

Whaley wont do this so he needs to go Jan. 2nd in favor of a GM who has the know how to understand that a good, young QB is needed. Keeping Rex through his contracted years would not be a bad thing seeing as he is defensive-minded and has the young players from DW's past draft's to work with.

 

Bottom line, no more project QB's like EJ or Cardale. TT can be the place holder for a half a season or so till said rook is ready.

 

Just my 2 cents on the issue

Disagree... if u think ur close, do whatever u can to end the drought

[BobbyC81]

Retain Tyrod. I don't see any realistic options in FA, and we have other, more pressing needs (e.g., safety, WR, OT, ILB) in the draft and in FA.

 

If the defense is playing as it should be, Tyrod can win games with the right offensive scheme.

I agree with this. The Bills have lost most of their games when the offense has scored enough pts to win but the defense has not played well enough.

[BuffaloWings]

kidnap McCarron and change his name to "Dwight Davis" or something

This.

 

A lot depends on who the coach will be, but since McCarron is young enough and will not likely replace Dalton anytime soon, I think this is a good play.

 

I'd endorse getting Romo, but only as long as it doesn't cost too much.

[H2o]

I'd start Jones and draft Kaaya.

Kaaya is not good and will never be a starting caliber NFL QB. That would be a wasted draft pick.