Pine Barrens Mafia Posted December 19, 2016 Posted December 19, 2016 I saw this coming a mile away. When Lawson was put on the shelf for half the season, missing his rookie training camp I wondered has anybody ever missed significant time in their rookie season, including their rookie camp, and played well when they came back that year? I'm sure it's happened, but it's the outlier, not the norm. I then wondered how long it would take someone to call him a "bust" before he was ever really given a fair shake. Apparently that's 5 games. Who knows how the guy will pan out, perhaps he will end up being a bust but to call him that now is hilarious. Take a look at Whaley's first round choices...tell me he hasn't failed abysmally. And this year, KNOWINGLY drafting an injured guy? SMH.
NorthBuffaloKid Posted December 19, 2016 Posted December 19, 2016 I think people are being a little too critical of the guy, he's only been playing for a little over a month now. Give the guy some time to find his way. He hasn't been the best but he hasn't been horrible either. In limited action he's had 12 tkls and 2 sacks with a FF.Yep ^^
Billsman623 Posted December 20, 2016 Posted December 20, 2016 I'm not hesitant to call you what you are: a ridiculous poster. +1
BaaadThingsMan Posted December 20, 2016 Posted December 20, 2016 Bruce Smith was all these things and more his rookie year. I'm not making that comparison but I watched his transformation and it was pretty amazing. Shaq will be fine.
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted December 20, 2016 Posted December 20, 2016 I'm not hesitant to call you what you are: a ridiculous poster. Did I hurt your feelings? Show me on the doll where it hurts. In today's NFL, first rounders need to produce. He's done NOTHING.
thebandit27 Posted December 20, 2016 Posted December 20, 2016 He looks exactly like I expected him to look after missing an entire offseason. He's struggling to maintain discipline when asked to keep contain on the edge, and he clearly isn't quite in football shape. That said, he is flashing on certain plays, and when he keeps his hands active, he's able to be disruptive up front. He's a total incomplete to me at this point, and I'll be very interested to see what happens with him this offseason.
Mr. WEO Posted December 20, 2016 Posted December 20, 2016 Shaq Lawson appears overweight, slow to react, hesitant, underwhelming power, stiff/rigid, doesn't bend or dip, & is a liability when pursuing to the edge. His midsection is doughy, and his quickness laterally is comprised by a "clod-hopper" gait. But....day 1 starter, yo?
Fixxxer Posted December 20, 2016 Posted December 20, 2016 0:42 second mark, Shaq doesn't get in the stat sheet, but he disrupts the play and Preston gets the tackle for loss.
BarleyNY Posted December 20, 2016 Posted December 20, 2016 Are you expecting it to impair him for the rest of his career even after corrective surgery? If not, then I don't see how that adds up. No, I'm not. But I think you misunderstand me. Here's my thought process. When a GM has information that equates to a lost or at least very unproductive rookie season (at an inexpensive rookie contract price) for a draftee then that should be accounted for in that player's drafted position. It wasn't here because Lawson was drafted in the range he was projected to be taken if healthy. Whaley took Lawson too high when accounting for that. But that wasn't my point. My point was that it is unfair to hold either Lawson's draft position or his mostly unproductive rookie season against him. I expect him to be a quality player long term and he's one that I liked a lot pre-draft. His draft position probably won't be an issue in the long run. I see that as a knock on Whaley, not Lawson. But I see Lawson taking the brunt of criticism for it right now. The other knock I see against him is that some people think he is a Mario style player and are griping because they aren't seeing a great speed pass rush from him. But that's wrong, too. He isn't that kind of player at all. He should be stout at holding the edge and he should still get some sacks, but he won't be just blowing by quality LTs to get them (unless he sets them up). He'll have to use technique and his strength more. He had zero NFL practices to work on technique before he came off of PUP and his injury and recovery time when his shoulder was immobilized has certainly robbed him of his strength. Again, that's unfair to him. Next season should be much better for him (barring any setback). It'll be fun to watch him grow.
BADOLBILZ Posted December 20, 2016 Posted December 20, 2016 No, I'm not. But I think you misunderstand me. Here's my thought process. When a GM has information that equates to a lost or at least very unproductive rookie season (at an inexpensive rookie contract price) for a draftee then that should be accounted for in that player's drafted position. It wasn't here because Lawson was drafted in the range he was projected to be taken if healthy. Whaley took Lawson too high when accounting for that. But that wasn't my point. My point was that it is unfair to hold either Lawson's draft position or his mostly unproductive rookie season against him. I expect him to be a quality player long term and he's one that I liked a lot pre-draft. His draft position probably won't be an issue in the long run. I see that as a knock on Whaley, not Lawson. But I see Lawson taking the brunt of criticism for it right now. The other knock I see against him is that some people think he is a Mario style player and are griping because they aren't seeing a great speed pass rush from him. But that's wrong, too. He isn't that kind of player at all. He should be stout at holding the edge and he should still get some sacks, but he won't be just blowing by quality LTs to get them (unless he sets them up). He'll have to use technique and his strength more. He had zero NFL practices to work on technique before he came off of PUP and his injury and recovery time when his shoulder was immobilized has certainly robbed him of his strength. Again, that's unfair to him. Next season should be much better for him (barring any setback). It'll be fun to watch him grow. 1) Criticism of young players is always much more about criticism of the organization than of the players. Takes like this "brunt of criticism" statement are usually made by people trying to shame other fans into submission regarding their opinion of the organization's decision to use important chips on said player. "He's just a baby how can you be so cruel". It's a Promo specialty. 2) Not the words you want to hear about your 260-280# first round draft choice. IMO he's in between Courtney Upshaw and Melvin Ingram as a player. Guys who hit free agency and are very hard to justify keeping....in part because of the lingering feeling that they are actually holding you BACK at an impact position. 3) Unless he's hitting QB's at an acceptable first round pass rusher rate it will be the opposite of fun.......it will be frustrating for Bills fans.
Coach Tuesday Posted December 20, 2016 Posted December 20, 2016 Two words: Paxton Lynch. Those definitely are two words. Thank you.
thebandit27 Posted December 20, 2016 Posted December 20, 2016 Those definitely are two words. Thank you. One of the reasons I was happy when we drafted Shaq Lawson is that he was not Paxton Lynch
Coach Tuesday Posted December 20, 2016 Posted December 20, 2016 One of the reasons I was happy when we drafted Shaq Lawson is that he was not Paxton Lynch I would've disliked the player but approved of the draft strategy. I think posters keep missing this aspect of the conversation. Yes it's too early to judge Shaq Lawson as a player. No, it's not too early to criticize the strategy behind drafting him at that spot - something that BADOL keeps hammering on (and about which I agree with him).
thebandit27 Posted December 20, 2016 Posted December 20, 2016 I would've disliked the player but approved of the draft strategy. I think posters keep missing this aspect of the conversation. Yes it's too early to judge Shaq Lawson as a player. No, it's not too early to criticize the strategy behind drafting him at that spot - something that BADOL keeps hammering on (and about which I agree with him). I actually don't disagree with you guys. I don't think, however, that it makes sense to pick a player that you don't like simply to optimize positional value. I never would've drafted lynch because I didn't like him as a prospect.
RyanC883 Posted December 20, 2016 Posted December 20, 2016 He's a rookie who missed all of training camp and practice and didn't see an NFL field or practice until late October. Good grief. no. trade him away for a 5th!!!!!
BADOLBILZ Posted December 20, 2016 Posted December 20, 2016 One of the reasons I was happy when we drafted Shaq Lawson is that he was not Paxton Lynch Who is the player you would compare to your expectations for Shaq? I get the feeling that a lot of Shaq fans have used their lack of commitment to expectations for Shaq as a disguise for their backpedaling. Like.......now it's OK that this year has been pretty much a wash. I know you aren't one of them but I am interested in what you actually expect.
GunnerBill Posted December 20, 2016 Posted December 20, 2016 Who is the player you would compare to your expectations for Shaq? I get the feeling that a lot of Shaq fans have used their lack of commitment to expectations for Shaq as a disguise for their backpedaling. Like.......now it's OK that this year has been pretty much a wash. I know you aren't one of them but I am interested in what you actually expect. I agreed with you when you set out your expectations for him being judged a successful first round pick. He needs to be in that 8-12 sack range when playing a full year - that was your success criteria and I concur that is a reasonable base against which to judge. I just don't think judging him against that this year when he missed all of camp all the install and half of his rookie year is fair. If Shaq plays 14-16 games next season I will expect him to be in that range and if he isn't I think it might indicate that the Bills (and I - I had him as a top 10 player no rowing back going on here) got their talent evaluation wrong. I am happy to be held to that. I am still very confident in what I see.
BarleyNY Posted December 20, 2016 Posted December 20, 2016 1) Criticism of young players is always much more about criticism of the organization than of the players. Takes like this "brunt of criticism" statement are usually made by people trying to shame other fans into submission regarding their opinion of the organization's decision to use important chips on said player. "He's just a baby how can you be so cruel". It's a Promo specialty. 2) Not the words you want to hear about your 260-280# first round draft choice. IMO he's in between Courtney Upshaw and Melvin Ingram as a player. Guys who hit free agency and are very hard to justify keeping....in part because of the lingering feeling that they are actually holding you BACK at an impact position. 3) Unless he's hitting QB's at an acceptable first round pass rusher rate it will be the opposite of fun.......it will be frustrating for Bills fans. Not trying to shame anyone. Just pointing out that it isn't Lawson's fault that Whaley took him 19th overall even though he had a torn labrum and that it's ridiculous to expect anything productive out of him this season due to that injury. We will see what he's about in 2017 and 2018.
John from Riverside Posted December 20, 2016 Posted December 20, 2016 Two words: Paxton Lynch. Has Paxton Lynch shown anything to think he is a better prospect then Shaq Lawson
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