John from Riverside Posted December 22, 2016 Posted December 22, 2016 Quick, name the difference makers who were picked after #18 this year. And frankly....I dont consider Shaq a "safe choice" Lots of upside because he played with the shoulder all the way through College......so you have to get excited about the player you get when he is actually healthy...... I think this is all a little unfair the kid didnt get a training camp or pre season to prepare.....he healed and was thrown right in (which I have no problem with) but expectations should be tempered just like with any rookie. except Fuller would've played more than a quarter of our meaningful games, but fair enough. And I contend with our injuries, we didn't need a guy to complement Sammy as much as a talented WR out there to play over bums. And in that sense, the cream would've risen to the top. There's always Michael Thomas, if you're looking for a big WR. Projections mean nothing. Of course they dont...they refute your arguement That's true. I don't like the way the Texans are using him. He can get open downfield, with speed. Seems like a perfect compliment to Hopkins (or Watkins). I'm going to blame their QB issues for his lack of performance - I think he'd be a good fit on this Bills team based on his skillset. That said, I wanted Myles Jack at 19, and then in Round 2. What is your opinion on Myles slow start?
BringBackOrton Posted December 22, 2016 Posted December 22, 2016 Fuller isn't having a good season statistically. He has a 47.7 percent catch rate, which is absolute bottom of the barrel. Robinson, Hurns, Marshall, Kearse are all around the same. He's still young and had the Brocketship throwing to him. I think he'll be a star.
Coach Tuesday Posted December 22, 2016 Posted December 22, 2016 What is your opinion on Myles slow start? I'm surprised by it. I could very well have been wrong about him, I'm just an anonymous internet moron, not a scout. I guess we'll see.
BringBackOrton Posted December 22, 2016 Posted December 22, 2016 And frankly....I dont consider Shaq a "safe choice" Lots of upside because he played with the shoulder all the way through College......so you have to get excited about the player you get when he is actually healthy...... I think this is all a little unfair the kid didnt get a training camp or pre season to prepare.....he healed and was thrown right in (which I have no problem with) but expectations should be tempered just like with any rookie. Of course they dont...they refute your arguement What is your opinion on Myles slow start? Projections are made up numbers. They don't support anything because they aren't real. I had 30 sacks in high school if you project my week one stats. Guess who didn't go to the NFL?
YoloinOhio Posted December 22, 2016 Posted December 22, 2016 Fuller isn't having a good season statistically. He has a 47.7 percent catch rate, which is absolute bottom of the barrel. not a surprise with his drop rate at ND
GG Posted December 22, 2016 Posted December 22, 2016 except Fuller would've played more than a quarter of our meaningful games, but fair enough. And I contend with our injuries, we didn't need a guy to complement Sammy as much as a talented WR out there to play over bums. And in that sense, the cream would've risen to the top. There's always Michael Thomas, if you're looking for a big WR. Projections mean nothing. I'm not into 20/20 hindsight analysis of why the 6th WR picked in the draft is having the better season than the guys picked ahead of him. The point is about drafting strategy, and Bills are getting slammed for drafting for need over BPA. Yet, when you examine history, it shows that after the top 10 picks are off the board, you shouldn't reach for a project with your pick. Because for every Ray Lewis, there are 100 Katzemoyers.
John from Riverside Posted December 22, 2016 Posted December 22, 2016 Projections are made up numbers. They don't support anything because they aren't real. I had 30 sacks in high school if you project my week one stats. Guess who didn't go to the NFL? ok let me dumb this down for you If you dont like projecting numbers on a imcomplete season then dont talk about a player being a disappointment in said incomplete season coming off surgery with no training camp or pre season.
BringBackOrton Posted December 22, 2016 Posted December 22, 2016 ok let me dumb this down for you If you dont like projecting numbers on a imcomplete season then dont talk about a player being a disappointment in said incomplete season coming off surgery with no training camp or pre season. That is the most inane thing I've ever read.
John from Riverside Posted December 22, 2016 Posted December 22, 2016 That is the most inane thing I've ever read. Of course it is....because like I said....your ignorant
BringBackOrton Posted December 22, 2016 Posted December 22, 2016 I'm not into 20/20 hindsight analysis of why the 6th WR picked in the draft is having the better season than the guys picked ahead of him. The point is about drafting strategy, and Bills are getting slammed for drafting for need over BPA. Yet, when you examine history, it shows that after the top 10 picks are off the board, you shouldn't reach for a project with your pick. Because for every Ray Lewis, there are 100 Katzemoyers. It all depends on what you define as a project. I think there's something to be said about losing Mario and OLB/DE being a gaping hole all offseason, with very little to adequately address it (the hindsight argument goes both way, as LorAx was a backup/STer signing at best) and our first pick just happens to be BPA AND one of our most deficient positions? I just don't know if I completely buy that.
Andrew Son Posted December 22, 2016 Posted December 22, 2016 It all depends on what you define as a project. I think there's something to be said about losing Mario and OLB/DE being a gaping hole all offseason, with very little to adequately address it (the hindsight argument goes both way, as LorAx was a backup/STer signing at best) and our first pick just happens to be BPA AND one of our most deficient positions? I just don't know if I completely buy that. Except that Manny Lawson was penciled in at that position
GG Posted December 22, 2016 Posted December 22, 2016 It all depends on what you define as a project. I think there's something to be said about losing Mario and OLB/DE being a gaping hole all offseason, with very little to adequately address it (the hindsight argument goes both way, as LorAx was a backup/STer signing at best) and our first pick just happens to be BPA AND one of our most deficient positions? I just don't know if I completely buy that. Let me see if I understand your logic. You state that Bills had a big need at DE/OLB, but argue that Lawson was a bad pick at that spot? Did I get that right?
BringBackOrton Posted December 22, 2016 Posted December 22, 2016 (edited) Of course it is....because like I said....your ignorantIrony. Let me straighten you out. Shaq did not get double or triple the amount of sacks he actually had. He was our first round pick and his numbers are his numbers. Is there some reasons to be hopeful? No doubt. He had no camp, he's healthy and he's got room to grow. However, that doesn't mean next year in a 16 game season he's gonna have 10+ sacks because of his "projections" this season. It just does not. I'm hopeful he does, because he's on our team, bur I don't see superstar flashes from him as much as I would like. Let me see if I understand your logic. You state that Bills had a big need at DE/OLB, but argue that Lawson was a bad pick at that spot? Did I get that right? I'm arguing that I don't think he was BPA and I stand by that. Sure, he was a need. Drafting for need historically sucks. It's why we have Ragland. Edited December 22, 2016 by jmc12290
John from Riverside Posted December 22, 2016 Posted December 22, 2016 Thanks for "straightening" me out You do realize your talking out both sides of your ass righ? "There is reasons to be hopeful" "I dont see superstar flashes" Exactly what would take to see a superstar flash? Do you notice that NONE of our down linemen are showing superstar flashes right now? Hard to do when our rushing 3 and dropping everyone in coverage for a LB/DL to make a "superstar" flash with this defensive scheme. The fact still remains.....we are lucky to even have Shaq Lawson's services this year given that he missed over half the season with a surgery which in all probability is going to take them to get his functional strength where it actually should be......there are many cases where rookies dont make huge impacts in their first years and go on to be very production...and it is further compounded by the fact that Shaq missed crucial time in a players growth due to going under the knife. but by all means....continue on with your ignorant evaluation of this first year player
BringBackOrton Posted December 22, 2016 Posted December 22, 2016 Thanks for "straightening" me out You do realize your talking out both sides of your ass righ? "There is reasons to be hopeful" "I dont see superstar flashes" Exactly what would take to see a superstar flash? Do you notice that NONE of our down linemen are showing superstar flashes right now? Hard to do when our rushing 3 and dropping everyone in coverage for a LB/DL to make a "superstar" flash with this defensive scheme. The fact still remains.....we are lucky to even have Shaq Lawson's services this year given that he missed over half the season with a surgery which in all probability is going to take them to get his functional strength where it actually should be......there are many cases where rookies dont make huge impacts in their first years and go on to be very production...and it is further compounded by the fact that Shaq missed crucial time in a players growth due to going under the knife. but by all means....continue on with your ignorant evaluation of this first year player How is that talking out of both sides? It's more like taking a moderate yet hopeful stance on a player you have been crowing about being a top 10 talent who hasn't played too much like it. Like I said, reasons to be hopeful. Like Badol said, you were in love with Shaq once you found out he had all his fingers and toes. I was not.
GG Posted December 22, 2016 Posted December 22, 2016 I'm arguing that I don't think he was BPA and I stand by that. Sure, he was a need. Drafting for need historically sucks. It's why we have Ragland. Teams don't draft in a vacuum and always balance need vs BPA. Shaq happened to be a good combination of need and BPA. Please show me proof that drafting for need historically sucks. Because there's a huge difference in drafting Shaq Lawson because you're thin on DL vs drafting Travares Tillman because you needed a safety.
John from Riverside Posted December 22, 2016 Posted December 22, 2016 (edited) How is that talking out of both sides? It's more like taking a moderate yet hopeful stance on a player you have been crowing about being a top 10 talent who hasn't played too much like it. Like I said, reasons to be hopeful. Like Badol said, you were in love with Shaq once you found out he had all his fingers and toes. I was not. I did like Shaq coming out of college for a multitude of reasons the fact that he played hurt all that time also means there might be even a high ceiling with him. The only thing I dont like is that he is a Rex pick.....and I want him gone. PS. Make your own points.....stop crutching on other people like Bado to do it for you.....I know that might be hard for you Edited December 22, 2016 by John from Hemet
BringBackOrton Posted December 22, 2016 Posted December 22, 2016 I did like Shaq coming out of college for a multitude of reasons the fact that he played hurt all that time also means there might be even a high ceiling with him. The only thing I dont like is that he is a Rex pick.....and I want him gone. PS. Make your own points.....stop crutching on other people like Bado to do it for you.....I know that might be hard for you His point was that you're a homer, and we all know that. Even you do. I didn't love the pick or the player. You realize there's a level of subjectivity in player assessment, right?
John from Riverside Posted December 22, 2016 Posted December 22, 2016 His point was that you're a homer, and we all know that. Even you do. I didn't love the pick or the player. You realize there's a level of subjectivity in player assessment, right? Quality is Quality Shaq Lawson is a quality player. Its ok....the good thing is he will prove it next year regardless of who is the coach.....a even better fit in a 4-3 if they go that direction. Never said I was not a homer........but even us Homer's can still evaluate players.
BringBackOrton Posted December 22, 2016 Posted December 22, 2016 (edited) Quality is Quality Shaq Lawson is a quality player. Its ok....the good thing is he will prove it next year regardless of who is the coach.....a even better fit in a 4-3 if they go that direction. Never said I was not a homer........but even us Homer's can still evaluate players. You can evaluate them, but when every evaluation is the same, "I like the pick, he could be really good!" How much is it truly worth? Agree that Lawson is a better fit in a 4-3. Which I was hoping for leading up to the draft, because Rex's days were numbered. Edited December 22, 2016 by jmc12290
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