plenzmd1 Posted December 13, 2016 Author Posted December 13, 2016 Dick Vermeil, Rams. Jeff Fisher, Titans. Jimmy Johnson, Dallas. Ron Rivera, Carolina. Mike Holmgren, Seahawks. uh...Marv freakin' Levy, Buffalo. Vermeil was a good one for his stint with the Rams...the Eagles just to far back and really a totally diffeernt era to me. Johnson shows dramatic improvement in the 2nd year..i get that one. Holmgren goes 9-7 first year in Seattle. Marv Levy i don't think works either. I throw out the first year as he replaces good ole Hank mid-season. 7-8 First year with replacements thrown in there 12-4 next year.
nuklz2594 Posted December 13, 2016 Posted December 13, 2016 when the pegulas bought the team, they went for a big shiny splash with rex. rex is loud and boisterous. the players for the most part love him, he needs to get out of his own way.
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted December 13, 2016 Posted December 13, 2016 All aboard the SS continuity...17 year cruise to 8-8!
MDH Posted December 13, 2016 Posted December 13, 2016 I did as well...but I have spent the last 4 hours going through records...and you can really see it either happens year 2, or it just does not happen for the vast majority of coaches. Now, there are exceptions where year 1 was a total re-build, year two huge improvement but still under 500, and then year 3 playoffs..Jimmy Johnson fits there. But so few and far between...we have just become programmed to this idea of "continuity", but unless i am missing something the results do not support the continuity argument. When I go through those records I notice that the coach finally starts winning the moment he gets a quality QB, almost without fail. If a QB doesn't start performing the coach gets the axe.
plenzmd1 Posted December 13, 2016 Author Posted December 13, 2016 (edited) When I go through those records I notice that the coach finally starts winning the moment he gets a quality QB, almost without fail. If a QB doesn't start performing the coach gets the axe. Yep! And the proponents of "continuity" never bring up Denver or Tampa winning the Super Bowl year after firing coaches either...and firing coaches with outstanding records. But the Bills should stay with a sub-standard coach...who has a non-winning record 6 years straight. Bad hire, just admit it and move on. Edited December 13, 2016 by plenzmd1
baskingridgebillsfan Posted December 13, 2016 Posted December 13, 2016 the longer you stay with the same systems the better then product. I agree you have to find the guy you are confident and comfortable with but once you identify him please stick with him. Changing schemes every year is not helpful. The less a player things and the more he reacts the better the play.
plenzmd1 Posted December 13, 2016 Author Posted December 13, 2016 the longer you stay with the same systems the better then product. I agree you have to find the guy you are confident and comfortable with but once you identify him please stick with him. Changing schemes every year is not helpful. The less a player things and the more he reacts the better the play. hows that working out in Jacksonville? How that work for the Jets under Rex? How that work out for Herm Edwards at KC or the Jets? Stay with the same systems when you have a winning record...absolutely. But stay with it when it all appears to be heading backwards from Day 1? And lets face it, the two best games this team has played under Rex were game 1 and 3 of his tenure.
baskingridgebillsfan Posted December 13, 2016 Posted December 13, 2016 hows that working out in Jacksonville? How that work for the Jets under Rex? How that work out for Herm Edwards at KC or the Jets? Stay with the same systems when you have a winning record...absolutely. But stay with it when it all appears to be heading backwards from Day 1? And lets face it, the two best games this team has played under Rex were game 1 and 3 of his tenure. Herm Edwards ? he was fine with the jets. made the playoffs . common denominator for those three is the qb. Chad healthy Herm wins. Chad hurt Herm loses. It is always about the qb. you know Rex could be 17-15 after two years without a qb. If you want to say the defense sucks , you can . Now he is 17-15 without a qb or a defense. Not too shabby
jeffismagic Posted December 13, 2016 Posted December 13, 2016 I'm fine with keeping Rex or moving on. If we move on the Pegulas better have the next super star coach or a proven winner like Harbaugh. Look at the Jets. They wanted to move on from Rex and Bowles is not liked by their fans.
MDH Posted December 13, 2016 Posted December 13, 2016 you know Rex could be 17-15 after two years without a qb. If you want to say the defense sucks , you can . Now he is 17-15 without a qb or a defense. Not too shabby But he's not 17-15. He's 14-15. And the reason he doesn't have a D is because he destroyed it. He made a top tier D into a lower-middle tier D. The talent on the D is there if utilized to accentuate it's strengths. We've seen it done, it's not hypothetical.
plenzmd1 Posted December 13, 2016 Author Posted December 13, 2016 Herm Edwards ? he was fine with the jets. made the playoffs . common denominator for those three is the qb. Chad healthy Herm wins. Chad hurt Herm loses. It is always about the qb. you know Rex could be 17-15 after two years without a qb. If you want to say the defense sucks , you can . Now he is 17-15 without a qb or a defense. Not too shabby In terms of the record,Ii only want to know what the record is when the games count. Rex was 6-8 last year, 6-7 this year...for a 12-15 record when the games count. Maybe I can go to 13-15 if I include the Jets game last year... and this is not a rebuilding team building on wins for momentum for next year, or a team where you can see a young nucleus starting to form like the Raiders last year..this is a veteran team that was built to win this year..and failed miserably , and failed against any team that fought back.
NorthBuffaloKid Posted December 13, 2016 Posted December 13, 2016 Great points! I'm a huge baseball fan as well and have followed how the better organizations go about their business. They are aggressive and don't look over their shoulders. As you said, last years bad move, if its not working then they move on. The rub in all this is giving things a chance. Pundits always seem to misdiagnose problems. Continuity applies more to when things are going well then you don't try to fix it. Rex will have 32 games in and that is not a small sample size to see progress in the NFL. If we were trending upward like Miami is I might feel differently. Good post. I'm not so sure about this analogy. Baseball has many more games in a season. Many more opportunities to evaluate whether a certain player fits in with what you're trying to accomplish with your team. Also, injuries don't come as often in baseball. And when they do, They usually don't last for as great a percentage of the season as in football. That being said, I DO agree with the philosophy of not being too enamored with a certain talent. Dareus comes to mind. We should cut his sorry butt...
Southern Bills Fan Posted December 13, 2016 Posted December 13, 2016 It's not just the two years with the Bills. The last four with the Jets combined with the two in Buffalo make him look below average for the past six years. And if he stays we will probably be worse next year than we are this year.
hondo in seattle Posted December 13, 2016 Posted December 13, 2016 It's a different story because he switched clubs, but Belichick wasn't an instant success as a HC. I bet Browns fans - in retrospect - wished they had believed in continuity when the team fired Bill. I think head coaches need time to (1) learn how to be a good HC, (2) get the right coaches onboard, and (3) perfect and implement their systems.
eball Posted December 13, 2016 Posted December 13, 2016 Continuity is only meaningful if you've got a solid foundation with proven methods. There are so many rotten apples at OBD that saying you will keep things the same for continuity is absolutely insane.
Sisyphean Bills Posted December 13, 2016 Posted December 13, 2016 Continuity is only meaningful if you've got a solid foundation with proven methods. There are so many rotten apples at OBD that saying you will keep things the same for continuity is absolutely insane. The irony being that if Rex takes the blame, then it will be the "newest apple" that gets thrown out. Again. when the pegulas bought the team, they went for a big shiny splash with rex. rex is loud and boisterous. the players for the most part love him, he needs to get out of his own way. Sounds like a marketing dream come true.
Reed83HOF Posted December 13, 2016 Posted December 13, 2016 Yep! And the proponents of "continuity" never bring up Denver or Tampa winning the Super Bowl year after firing coaches either...and firing coaches with outstanding records. But the Bills should stay with a sub-standard coach...who has a non-winning record 6 years straight. Bad hire, just admit it and move on. You have to have the right QB, but you also have to have the correct coach. It is not absolute that a good QB will overcome awful coaching...
DrDawkinstein Posted December 13, 2016 Posted December 13, 2016 Jason Garrett and the Cowboys come to mind, although I dont know the exact numbers on their record. I do know that he has been on the hot seat plenty of times, and instead of "cleaning house" Jerry Jones has worked to support Garrett and build up the staff. I remember around 2011, they removed Garrett from being the official OC and brought in both a Passing Game Coord and Running Game Corod. They kept tweaking that staff, brought in Bill Callahan as OC. Tweaked it more by again splitting duties and bringing in Linehan as Passing Game Coord., and finally settled on making him the official solo OC. And that was just on the O side. They've also been through 4 different DCs during the past 6 years. Tweaking, moving guys up and around internally, but never ever "cleaning house". What they have now is an established system, a solid landing spot for rookies, and a ton of success.
Sisyphean Bills Posted December 13, 2016 Posted December 13, 2016 You have to have the right QB, but you also have to have the correct coach. It is not absolute that a good QB will overcome awful coaching... You need a well-rounded and cohesive team. The Broncos won a Super Bowl recently, and QB was actually a physical weakness they had to cover up, while being a "football IQ" strength, a motivating leader, and omnipresent in commercials. Drew Brees has largely been wasted in recent years. Great QB on a team with a putrid defense. Expecting him to put up 60 to 80 points every week doesn't work.
plenzmd1 Posted December 13, 2016 Author Posted December 13, 2016 Jason Garrett and the Cowboys come to mind, although I dont know the exact numbers on their record. I do know that he has been on the hot seat plenty of times, and instead of "cleaning house" Jerry Jones has worked to support Garrett and build up the staff. I remember around 2011, they removed Garrett from being the official OC and brought in both a Passing Game Coord and Running Game Corod. They kept tweaking that staff, brought in Bill Callahan as OC. Tweaked it more by again splitting duties and bringing in Linehan as Passing Game Coord., and finally settled on making him the official solo OC. And that was just on the O side. They've also been through 4 different DCs during the past 6 years. Tweaking, moving guys up and around internally, but never ever "cleaning house". What they have now is an established system, a solid landing spot for rookies, and a ton of success. Garrett is a good one..just looked 8-8 3 str8 years to start his tenure...nice memory
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