Dr. K Posted December 9, 2016 Posted December 9, 2016 I read this sentence and it speaks volumes - I don’t think he will ever be a pro-bowler, but I think he could be a solid game-manager that could extend drives with his legs and maybe make a playoff run if he has a good enough supporting cast and defense. Other than McCoy and Watkins for a couple of games, what has TT had with respect to weapons? Woods, Goodwin, Hunter, Powell, Clay, etc. That group would have a hard time making many rosters. Another thing to point out here. This is TT first full year as a starter. Give him some time. Automatic SB winners / HofF inductees do not coming knocking on your doorstep. Also, now we seem to have an OC that can put some type of a game plan together. Put some true weapons around him, get him some time to grow and I think we would be surprised at what everyone is panicking over right now. My 2 cents - out. Tyrod started from day one last season. It's not his first year as starter. Woods would start for most teams.
MAJBobby Posted December 9, 2016 Posted December 9, 2016 Tyrod started from day one last season. It's not his first year as starter. Woods would start for most teams. Clay too
The Jokeman Posted December 9, 2016 Posted December 9, 2016 Tyrod started from day one last season. It's not his first year as starter. Woods would start for most teams. as would Clay. Hunter/Goodwin are arguably 3rd WRs on most other teams.
MAJBobby Posted December 9, 2016 Posted December 9, 2016 as would Clay. Hunter/Goodwin are arguably 3rd WRs on most other teams. Yep
klos63 Posted December 9, 2016 Posted December 9, 2016 (edited) You know what I find interesting? People are incredibly willing to give this guy time. No one around here ever gives QBs time His positive's are really valuable, I know it's a big leap, but if he became a better passer, along with his tremendous running skills, he'd be awesome. I think that's why a lot of us are holding out hope. He's scored rushing TD's in 5 straight games! the problem is that the running skills should be a bonus, not his strength. I do think a lot of people wonder what he'd accomplish with both Watkins and Woods at 100% Edited December 9, 2016 by klos63
AlCowlingsTaxiService Posted December 9, 2016 Posted December 9, 2016 In all sincerity, have you ever seen a more elusive QB ever, with the exception of Michael Vick? Randall Cunningham
klos63 Posted December 9, 2016 Posted December 9, 2016 as would Clay. Hunter/Goodwin are arguably 3rd WRs on most other teams. Hunter wasn't on any team earlier this season. Goodwin could be valuable. I'm starting to wonder about Clay. He would play but after watching Kelce last night, he is nowhere near a top TE
AlCowlingsTaxiService Posted December 9, 2016 Posted December 9, 2016 Never gonna be a pro bowler?! WRONG! In all seriousness, he needs to work on pocket awareness. To say he can't do that isn't really true... he just needs to make it a major focus. Use the whole field. He's taller than a few guys who ar very successful, what do they do? How many QB's bowed out before TT was "selected"?
MAJBobby Posted December 9, 2016 Posted December 9, 2016 (edited) Hunter wasn't on any team earlier this season. Goodwin could be valuable. I'm starting to wonder about Clay. He would play but after watching Kelce last night, he is nowhere near a top TE And how would Kelce do on a team that the QB ignores a big potion on the field? Hunter was on the Dolphins and was cut because of their INJ issues on the OL they tried to play the 54th man on the roster until we grabbed him on Waivers Edited December 9, 2016 by MAJBobby
Never NEVER Give-up Posted December 9, 2016 Posted December 9, 2016 Melton was spot on, so I kept poking around his site . . here are a few more . . . EJ Manuel, QB- Manuel is returning for his second full season as a starter with 17 career starts over his Seminole career. He’s listed at 6’5”, 238 pounds and definitely passes the eye test, and his strong arm is noticeable right away. Not only that, but he is very athletic for his size which helped him rush for 141 yards and 4 touchdowns last year in addition to passing for 2,666 yards (65.3% completion), 18 touchdowns and only 8 interceptions. One would assume he would improve on those numbers this year, particularly with some intriguing talent returning at receiver and running back, but I will be looking to see how his accuracy develops in addition to his pocket poise and ability to read defenses. He’s definitely got potential, but at this point he’s a lot closer to a 3rd round prospect than a 1strounder in my opinion. I don’t think he processes information quickly enough to be a top college quarterback and eventual quality NFL starter, and unless his head catches up with his arm and his body he’s going to be a physically gifted quarterback who never put it together from the mental aspect of the game. Until he proves that his football IQ has improved and that he can read defenses well I’m not going to grade him in the top 64 picks. Nick O’Leary, TE**- O’Leary is just a true sophomore but he flashed some serious potential as a freshman last season en route to a 12 catch, 164 yard, 1 touchdown season as a true freshman. He may not have had eye-popping numbers, but the 6’4”, 240 pound tight end is ready to break out this year. He has good hands, runs good routes and is probably the best tight end FSU has had on its roster in years. I’m not sure how good of a blocker he is, but as a receiver he is likely to be targeted much more frequently than he was last season and should start to garner a lot of national attention soon. He’s a very good tight end prospect, so keep an eye on him. Jonathan Meeks, SS- Meeks is a player that I actually like, but plenty of people don’t seem to. He’s inconsistent and I wasn’t impressed with his tackling, but he has good ball skills and that’s something I value over almost everything else at defensive back. He’s listed at 6’1”, 210 pounds and has a listed 40 time of 4.52 but looks a bit faster than that when I watch him. He’s got the ball skills, but I’m not sure how good his instincts and awareness are, and he doesn’t take very good angles and tackle that well. He’s got upside, and I think he has a shot to be a late round draft pick right now, but if he’s ever going to stick in the NFL he’s going to have to improve those aspects of his game. That said, I like him as a bit of an under the radar prospect. Sammy Watkins, WR**- Watkins burst onto the scene last season as a true freshman and proved to be one of the most dynamic players in the country despite his age. He is listed at 6’1”, 200 pounds and has fantastic speed, burst and elusiveness. He caught 82 passes for 1,219 yards and 12 touchdowns last year as well as rushing for 231 yards on just 32 carries. He was also a dynamic kick returner, returning 33 kickoffs for 826 yards (25.0 avg) and 1 touchdown. Even more impressive was that he did this in just 10 games as a result of injury, so his statistics shouldn’t suffer much even in spite of his early season suspension. He probably was ready to go to the NFL as a slot receiver and return man, but for the next two years we will have the privilege of seeing him polish his route running and if he stays healthy he should be a 1st round draft pick when he comes out after his junior season. He’s so pro-ready that I don’t expect him to stay beyond his junior year, but I hope that he doesn’t get in any more off-field trouble. He’s a special talent and if he keeps working and doesn’t get in any more trouble he will likely be a top 20 NFL Draft pick. Seantral Henderson: Size- has fantastic size for an offensive tackle. He’s listed at 6’8”, 345 and he is very strong in the upper and lower body. He could stand to lose a little weight honestly because I think he had some conditioning issues as a junior, but he’s not lacking for raw size and strength. Athleticism: Henderson is a good athlete for his size but I don’t think he’s a rare athlete as far as movement skills. Occasionally he will look heavy footed when he’s trying to get to a spot or get out in space, but he has good lateral movement and impressive quickness for such a large man. I wouldn’t call him a quick-twitch athlete, but he has enough quickness that he can react quickly and recover in pass protection. There are times where he is overmatched by a defender’s quickness though. Technique: Henderson’s technique is solid, but it definitely has room to improve. One thing that really bothers me is how often he bends at the waist as a run blocker. He regularly does this and it really inhibits his ability to maintain his balance and therefore struggles to sustain his blocks. He ends up on the ground more than I would like as a result of this, but occasionally it will allow him to generate a pancake block so I think it reinforces that bad habit. He also needs to work on his hand placement both as a run blocker and in pass protection. He lets his hands get outside onto the shoulder pads too much and even on the back of the man he is blocking at times in the run game. That’s going to draw flags in the NFL and while it helps him control the guy he is blocking I don’t think he’s going to be able to get away with that as much at the next level. In general he does a good job of replacing his hands when they are slapped away and recovers well if he gets off balance. He has a good anchor, he just needs to make sure he plays with good leverage and pad level without bending at the waist. Additionally, he doesn’t have much of an initial punch despite his obvious raw power. He’d be more effective if he used a punch to shock defenders upon engaging them. He also needs work on his cut blocking technique, but he has demonstrated that he can do it at times. Pass Protection: I was pleasantly surprised with Henderson’s ability in pass protection. He has impressive length, good lateral agility and he usually demonstrates quick, choppy steps in pass protection despite his size. He doesn’t always get the depth that I would like to see in his initial drop from his stance, but he has enough quickness to recover even if he doesn’t get ideal depth initially. He consistently showed the ability to recover even if it looked like he was beaten initially and despite having some questions about his hand placement he uses his length effectively and doesn’t often bend at the waist and overextend as a pass protector. I’m not sure how great his football IQ is, but he regularly did a good job handling twists, stunts and blitzes coming off the edge and rarely made mistakes in his assignments from what I could tell. There are times where he is too upright in pass protection and I want to see him bend at the knees, play with better pad level, and “sit down” and use his anchor to his advantage. There are times where he seems to be daring defenders to try to beat him off the edge as he doesn’t get much depth in his drop and then shows a quick burst to recover if they take the bait and try to speed rush him. It was very strange that he performed very well in pass protection against the likes of Notre Dame, North Carolina, Florida State and Virginia Tech (all of whom have at least one noteworthy pass rusher) but struggled against Virginia, particularly against Ausar Walcott who I had never heard of before this game (as a senior Walcott had 2.5 TFL and 0.5 sacks all year). Walcott gave him issues by challenging him with a speed rush but then bursting inside after Henderson was over committing to try to take away the speed rush and he struggled to recover in these instances. I imagine that is why may be trying to protect against the inside move initially at times before taking away the speed rush as a secondary option, but it was something that really confused me. He didn’t have issues protecting against inside moves against Prince Shembo, Bjoern Werner, Kareem Martin or James Gayle for the most part, but Walcott was giving him some problems. It may simply be Henderson playing up and down to his competition, but I can’t find an explanation for it. Run Blocking: This phase of Henderson’s game was a bit of a let-down for me. He’s not a poor run blocker by any means, but having watched him in high school I was expected a mauler that could dominate in this phase of the game. Unfortunately that wasn’t the case, as he regularly bent at the waist and involved himself in what I started to refer to as “the matador and the bull” where the defender would back up and let Henderson, or the bull, run forward with his waist bent and at times his head down and just fall to the ground. Thereafter the defender would pursue the ballcarrier. I didn’t notice it as frequently against Notre Dame but it became a consistent pattern in all the other games I watched and it really concerns me. Without bending at the waist he wasn’t able to generate much push off the ball and almost exclusively generates pancake blocks when he bends at the waist. Without doing this he is essentially a wall-off blocker, just a really big one with good length. Like I said, he’s not a bad run blocker and even though he isn’t a dominant drive blocker with good technique he can still wall-off effectively, he’s a good combo blocker and he has the athleticism to get to the second level, he just isn’t the mauler you would expect for a 6’8”, 345 pound offensive tackle. He does need work on his cut-blocking technique, he has issues with his hand placement in the run game as well, and his short-area quickness isn’t great and it shows when he doesn’t quite get to a spot against quicker defenders at times. Overall he’s a pretty good run blocker, he’s just not dominant or elite and unless he cleans up his waist bending (he doesn’t appear to be a natural knee bender to me) I don’t think he will be in the future. Overall: Henderson is a complicated prospect to evaluate because even though he has all the size, athleticism and ability you could want in a right tackle he hasn’t quite put it all together yet. He’s close to doing so as a pass blocker in my opinion, but he still has room to improve in the run game. Regardless, his conditioning was a problem for him last year and every 3rd series he was substituted out of the game in favor of a talented true freshman named Ereck Flowers. There are also times where he seems to be winded and instead of blocking to the whistle he simply shoves his man and often times his man then involves himself in the play. I stated earlier that I think he could stand to lose a little bit of weight and improve his conditioning and if he was able to do that I think he’d be able to play with better effort snap to snap and not need to get subbed out every 3rd series. One thing that concerns me is that Henderson is a very talented prospect and even if he does put it all together and become a likely 1st round pick I still look at this as essentially a contract year performance. Yes, he finally played up to his potential, but if you draft him will he continue to put in the same effort to stay in shape and continue to improve? Or will he start to rely on his talent again? I would hope that he would continue to improve, but that’s something I’d be concerned about if I was a NFL team. His upside is obvious and I don’t think there is going to be a better pass blocking right tackle prospect in this draft, especially not one with his size and length. I would love to see a dominant run blocking performance from him as a senior, but I mostly expect to see more bending at the waist and balance issues which is unfortunate. Overall I definitely think Henderson will end up in the top 50, perhaps even the 1st round if he continues to improve things like his hand placement and conditioning, and if he continues to give good effort as a NFL player I think he will make a team very happy with his pass blocking, but I don’t think he’s going to be the dominant run blocker some expect him to be as of now. Projection: Top 50. He could easily go higher than this, and he obviously has 1st round upside, it’s just a question of if or when he lives up to it. I’m excited to see if his conditioning is improved as a senior. Mike Gillislee: Size- has solid running back size, but he looks slim despite weighing 208 pounds. I think he could pretty easily put on some weight, and at 5’11” he has the frame to do so. Speed: In my opinion Gillislee has good enough speed to be a NFL running back. It may not have shown in his combine workout when he ran a 4.55 40 yard dash but when I watched him I thought he had about 4.5 speed. I didn’t think he looked like a blazer when I saw him, but he looked like he was adequate in this area. However, I’m not sure he has the speed to consistently get the corner at the next level, though I believe he will be able to gain chunks of yardage despite lacking elite speed. Quickness: This is one of Gillislee’s strengths. He is quick and it is evident almost immediately when you watch him. He has more than enough burst to hit the hole, possesses enough shiftiness to make defenders miss in the open field, and changes directions well. He isn’t elite in this area, but he is certainly impressive. Inside Running: Gillislee is solid in this area, but not spectacular. He is relatively tall and is not a thick runner, but he has good leg drive and can run through arm tackles. He consistently fights hard for extra yardage by running with good pad level and churning his legs upon contact, fighting until he is on the ground. Outside Running: This was one of Gillislee’s strengths at Florida in my opinion, but I’m not sure he has the speed to replicate the same success at the next level. He showed good patience, found cut-back lanes well, and used his blockers well when he found himself in open space. Receiving: I believe Gillislee is a good receiver out of the backfield even though he only has 23 career receptions (16 of which came as a senior). He seemed to catch the ball naturally out of the backfield when he was targeted and adjusted to poorly thrown passes well. Based off of the limited sample size we have, I think Gillislee will be a reliable pass catcher at the next level. Blocking: Gillislee’s lack of bulk is evident as a pass blocker, but he puts forth quality effort and is surprisingly effective despite not having ideal size or bulk for pass protection. Vision: I was not overly impressed with Gillislee’s vision, though I thought he showed better vision and patience on outside runs than he did when running between the tackles. I thought he was slow to see running lanes inside and occasionally would run into his offensive linemen while he was looking for a hole. He runs patiently when running outside and I thought he was effective when doing so, the only question is whether he will be able to get the edge as consistently in the NFL as he could in the SEC. Ball Security: When I watched Gillislee I saw him carry the ball high and tight with appropriate points of pressure and he rarely, if ever, lets the ball get too far away from his body where it would be easier for defenders to knock it free. I don’t think I saw him fumble in any of the games I watched of him as a senior. Overall: Gillislee looks like a solid but not spectacular back to me. I don’t see elite speed from him, but he does have quality quickness and good enough vision to be a contributing back at the next level. I am honestly not certain he’s going to be a front-line feature back because while he does a number of things adequately, I don’t think he does a lot of things exceedingly well. He has adequate speed, good quickness, projects to be a good receiver, and is a better than expected pass blocker despite his lack of bulk. There were just times I questioned his straight line speed when I watched him, and seeing him run a 4.55 didn’t exactly ease those concerns. To me he strikes me as a solid NFL Draft prospect, not a great one. Projection: 4th round. Perhaps he will go on day 2, but I personally think that he’s more of a Day 3 complementary back based on what I’ve seen. Ryan Groy, OT/OG, Senior- Groy is a player I was initially worried about sliding outside to tackle, but I think he will be able to hold up alright there as a senior. It’s tough to project how the 6’5”, 318 pounder will do on the blind side since I’ve never seen him play there, but he has enough lateral agility, good enough length and a strong enough anchor for me to think he can handle it. Originally I viewed him as only a guard, but after watching him and taking notes I think he might have a shot at playing tackle at the next level. That is all obviously projection, and I’m certainly not sold on him as a NFL left tackle, but he is carrying a day 2 grade from me into the season without a doubt. I’m excited to see what he can do, because as a guard he showed pretty good hand placement, a good anchor, and was smooth getting to the second level. He doesn’t strike me as a mauler in the run game, and is at his best when he can double team a defender, seal him off, cut him, or combo block and get to the second level. He’s not a great puller, but he looked solid when asked to do it. I think he’s going to be a good ZBS fit at the next level, and could potentially be a very good right tackle in a scheme that uses a lot of those concepts. I can’t wait to see what he can do outside at tackle this year. I'm still reading but this post is huge already. Melton is so spot on with these guys, the Bills should hire him!!
Solomon Grundy Posted December 9, 2016 Posted December 9, 2016 Tom Melton was spot on in most of his evaluations of the prospect in his blog. Go to the link referred to earlier and look at his evaluations of Sammy Watkins, OBJr, and Khalil Mack. Also chk out his evaluation of the draft picks. He was/is knowledgable in his assessments.
baskingridgebillsfan Posted December 10, 2016 Posted December 10, 2016 wow these are spot on. Meek nothing has changed Taylor well time to move on
Bangarang Posted December 10, 2016 Posted December 10, 2016 This is like that EJ scouting report that was also incredibly accurate. A lot of times, guys are who they are.
MarkAF43 Posted December 10, 2016 Posted December 10, 2016 Here's my thing. I've never been a "he's my guy" kind of fan. I've always been the hey he's a Bill, he's our guy. Same thing goes for Tyrod. Hell I bought his jersey. With that being sad, I'm not sure a scouting report that is almost 6 years old pinpoints the shortcomings in his game has changed much to a report being done on him right now. I would love for it to click and for him to change those things, but I'm just not seeing it happening. For those stating he hasn't had his weapons, that's fair to an extent. But anticipating a throw or throwing receivers open doesn't require weapons. That's a skill that the QB should develop regardless of weapons or not. I know it's not an apples to apples comparison but if you get a chance go look at the progression of game by game with Kirk Cousins and Tyrod. I know yards aren't everything, but the progression of Cousins is what we all wanted to see from Tyrod. In my opinion as much as I want him to succeed, I'll be more disappointed if the Bills spend the money to extend him. I feel it sets the franchise up for more years of futility.
dayman Posted December 10, 2016 Posted December 10, 2016 (edited) Good review, the Cons section was spot on. Can't believe he didn't give Tyrod an elite mobility rating though...he's probably the #2 most mobile QB of all time. Edited December 10, 2016 by dayman
KD in CA Posted December 10, 2016 Posted December 10, 2016 (edited) Good review, the Cons section was spot on. Can't believe he didn't give Tyrod an elite mobility rating though...he's probably the #2 most mobile QB of all time. I keep seeing this, but given his pocket awareness (or lack thereof), what makes him better than all the other mobile QBs over the years (other than Vick who I assume everyone considers #1)? Edited December 10, 2016 by KD in CA
BobbyC81 Posted December 10, 2016 Posted December 10, 2016 This was probably posted 400 times. Delete this post if that is the case. But this guy's draft analysis of TT is perfect: https://tommeltonscouting.wordpress.com/2011/03/22/tyrod-taylor-qb-virgina-tech-scouting-report/ Thanks for the link. Once I got in there, I was sucked into the scouting report vortex for about an hour but luckily found my way out. Interesting report on Seantrel Henderson also.
Cripple Creek Posted December 10, 2016 Posted December 10, 2016 who's going to want to come here after the QB gets run out of town the year after being in the Pro Bowl? for reals?
dave mcbride Posted December 10, 2016 Posted December 10, 2016 This was probably posted 400 times. Delete this post if that is the case. But this guy's draft analysis of TT is perfect: https://tommeltonscouting.wordpress.com/2011/03/22/tyrod-taylor-qb-virgina-tech-scouting-report/ Finally read this, and I'm glad you posted it. The fact that it was buried on page whatever deep in some other thread doesn't mean it shouldn't have its own thread, abd this one has turned out to be a good one. Taylor does not possess the same speed or elusiveness that Vick did. Vick could get the corner and turn upfield and get another 10-15 yards. Taylor can get to the sideline and maybe get the first down, but that's it. Vick runs circles around Taylor in speed and quickness and overall QB skills. This guy did nail Taylor. Disagree to an extent. Vick was faster, but Taylor has better short-area quickness. That seems obvious to me ...
H2o Posted December 10, 2016 Posted December 10, 2016 We need to see what Melton is saying about the QB's coming out this year. This guy is pretty good with his talent evaluations.
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