Marty McFly Posted December 8, 2016 Share Posted December 8, 2016 Lets all address the elephant in the room: Coach and Quarterback. While its easy to dump all the blame on Tyrod on Rex its illogical. Think back to when we 1st hired Rex (Bad Decision, I called it, *pats himself on the back*), we had a top 5 defense that was rolling on all cylinders and developing quality DBs season after season. Then Moron bails out on us and the franchise goes through a small re-boot. Rex comes in looking at our defenses production the last 2 years and pops a boner. Unfortunately Rex forgot that the type of players the Bills had in strength were almost the opposite of the type of rosters that brought Rex his glory days. Buffalo had a cold front that could bring pressure rushing 4 with no blitz. In the Ryan scheme the D Line are space eaters and the blitz comes from Linebackers and DB. This should have been a big indication the Rex Ryan scheme would take time to implement properly. Next problem, we had no QB, Rex had Tyrod in his back pocket and and EJ Manuel who he saw 2 times a year for a year and a half I think, he went QB competition and Tyrod won the job. At this point with the acquiring of Shady McCoy, Rex was gonna go to his normal scheme, strong run game, stout stingy defense, ball control and turnover free football. Without a #1 draft pick and holes to fill on the offense the options at QB in 2015 were so limited we almost had MATT !@#$ING CASSEL start for us!! The marrying of these two problems under the Rex Ryan coaching was a plan for disaster. For one reason and its NOT TYROD TAYLOR. Taylor at this point in his development, is what he is, a game manager QB that makes boom or bust plays and will not take over a game with his arm. He is not the QB that will lead you back from a 2/3 TD defect but, he wont throw 3 INTs a game and be the reason you lose when you are up. For Rexs scheme to work with this team our defensive talent has to be on par with what Denver has rite now, and we just dont have it. If the defense under-preforms the offense isnt good enough to pick up the slack. So we have a scheme that relies on a stout defense, strong run and no turnovers. We have the run game, we have a game manager QB that doesn't turn it over much but, we DONT have a stout defense. This is why we are 6-6 and continue to middle around until the team gets better players, We need a new scheme that fits our players strengths Or a magical franchise QB that can come in and mask our teams deficiencies but that is unlikely. If the Bills like someone in round 1 at QB I say take the shot, even though we have glaring needs at CB/WR/S/RT, which needs to be addressed. If you look at how our team plays, the scheme in which we use to succeed its easy to see until the defense makes major improvements we wont be able to win with this scheme even if Taylor can magically start seeing the field better. We are not built to come back from huge deficits, its a testament to Shady, the O-Line and Tyrods un-conventional style that we put up 20+ ppg. What do you guys think is more important to change rite that would yield the quickest positive results? The Scheme? The players? The Coach? or the Quarterback? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackOrton Posted December 8, 2016 Share Posted December 8, 2016 QB isn't good enough to win without a top 5 defense. Any vet QB can win with a top 5 defense (see a dead Peyton Manning/Brocketship, Kyle Orton). Dump the coach unable to coach a top 5 defense. Dump the overpaid QB unable to win without it for someone who may be better than a cheap vet/backup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fridge Posted December 8, 2016 Share Posted December 8, 2016 What do you guys think is more important to change rite that would yield the quickest positive results? The Scheme? The players? The Coach? or the Quarterback? I'm assuming you mean offense only... Scheme - No. I'm not sure how you change the scheme but keep the coach. He has a run first mentality and would only hire an OC that would run that style. Players - No. Watkins and Woods are a suitable WR1 + WR2 tandem (assuming we re-sign Woods). Our O-line is solid (address RT in off-season or Kujo steals it in camp). Our HB's are great. Our TE is more than capable. Coach - Maybe. If Rex is willing to depart from the ground and pound, and hypothetically A. Lynn got a job elsewhere, replacing him with a new OC would be a quick way to fix that (and also change my answer to "scheme"). If you meant HC it's off the table. They are bringing Rex back for another season - not even worth discussing. Quarterback - Yes. I think keeping our team the same, but replacing it with a QB that can confidently make the throws in the second half when the going gets tough and you're trailing or tied late would do wonders(see: Derek Carr last week). AT THE VERY LEAST the Ravens, Dolphins and Raiders game would be wins. You need to move the ball with confidence and in big chunks late in games, and we have not had that as an option in the last 25 games. Players - No. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TSOL Posted December 8, 2016 Share Posted December 8, 2016 That 2014 defense was so damn good. Nobody scored more than one TD on them, opponents were lucky to get a TD and a field goal on them. And they stayed healthy all year, too. Was brutal to play against. Man, those were the days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted December 8, 2016 Share Posted December 8, 2016 (edited) How many wins would you say he is responsible for? Edited December 8, 2016 by C.Biscuit97 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Tuesday Posted December 8, 2016 Share Posted December 8, 2016 You know, there might just be MORE THAN ONE SINGLE REASON. Humanity is circling the drain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihilarian Posted December 8, 2016 Share Posted December 8, 2016 Rex Ryan's defense only works with a strong run game that can be effective moving the ball all game and the offense only works with a strong defense that can hold the opposing team from scoring so the offense doesn't need to pass to win. Both the current offense and defense are built on schemes that rely on the other far too much. Jim Schwartz's defense worked with an offense that had almost no run game and the passing game was always going three and out, yet was #4 overall. Now imagine if that year's defense had this year's offense. The 2016 Bills would be 10-2 as they would have feasibly beaten the Jets, Dolphins, Seahawks, and Ravens. I say blow up the entire thing up and hire a team president of football operations so it takes the owner and Russ Brandon out of the football decision process. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty McFly Posted December 8, 2016 Author Share Posted December 8, 2016 Rex Ryan's defense only works with a strong run game that can be effective moving the ball all game and the offense only works with a strong defense that can hold the opposing team from scoring so the offense doesn't need to pass to win. Both the current offense and defense are built on schemes that rely on the other far too much. Jim Schwartz's defense worked with an offense that had almost no run game and the passing game was always going three and out, yet was #4 overall. Now imagine if that year's defense had this year's offense. The 2016 Bills would be 10-2 as they would have feasibly beaten the Jets, Dolphins, Seahawks, and Ravens. I say blow up the entire thing up and hire a team president of football operations so it takes the owner and Russ Brandon out of the football decision process. Pretty much the point I was making. They are in a co-dependent relationship and neither side holds up their end of the bargain enough, or overcompensates enough to pick up the slack. I'm assuming you mean offense only... Scheme - No. I'm not sure how you change the scheme but keep the coach. He has a run first mentality and would only hire an OC that would run that style. Players - No. Watkins and Woods are a suitable WR1 + WR2 tandem (assuming we re-sign Woods). Our O-line is solid (address RT in off-season or Kujo steals it in camp). Our HB's are great. Our TE is more than capable. Coach - Maybe. If Rex is willing to depart from the ground and pound, and hypothetically A. Lynn got a job elsewhere, replacing him with a new OC would be a quick way to fix that (and also change my answer to "scheme"). If you meant HC it's off the table. They are bringing Rex back for another season - not even worth discussing. Quarterback - Yes. I think keeping our team the same, but replacing it with a QB that can confidently make the throws in the second half when the going gets tough and you're trailing or tied late would do wonders(see: Derek Carr last week). AT THE VERY LEAST the Ravens, Dolphins and Raiders game would be wins. You need to move the ball with confidence and in big chunks late in games, and we have not had that as an option in the last 25 games. Players - No. I meant the team as a whole, either switch the scheme to fit the players we have on the roster, or switch up the roster to cater to the scheme, to be successful we need to pick one and not play the fence. It looks like we are playing the fence because even if we do get a QB, the team isnt built to the strength of a prolific passing quarterback, they are built to run the ball rite now, couple good WR pick ups and a solid RT could change that though. How many wins would you say he is responsible for? The scheme, Rex, or Tyrod? That 2014 defense was so damn good. Nobody scored more than one TD on them, opponents were lucky to get a TD and a field goal on them. And they stayed healthy all year, too. Was brutal to play against. Man, those were the days. Seriously man. That was a great year to watch but our offense was putrid. Couldnt rely on Kyle Ortan to make a good throw on 3rd and long to convert any 1st down. **** was Sad, CAN YOU IMAGINE THAT DEFENSE WITH TYROD, SHADY the new O LINE AND WATKINS!!! Ohhh mannn wed be 10-2 rite now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bisonbrigade Posted December 8, 2016 Share Posted December 8, 2016 REX + Tyrod = 8-8 record. If both are on Bills in 2017, 8-8 Record again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Utah John Posted December 8, 2016 Share Posted December 8, 2016 The problem on both D and O is it depends on players we don't have. On D, Wrecks requires shutdown corners, which actually means CBs who can deny underneath or out passes and who rely on safety help on top. Our CBs are pretty good (yeah I know Gilmore has had bad games, and Darby has a bit of a sophomore slump) but our safeties are putrid. We're calling Kelly Girls every week to replace the guy who got hurt during Sunday's game. No wonder the defensive backfield is rotten. The D also relies on a strong pass rush, and on this count the Bills are fair weather players Against really strong O lines they're helpless. Against average to weak O lines, they feast. Great stats at the end of the year, but not a good team record. On O, the two biggest problems are no receivers left, and the scheme. We're down to Glass Goodwin who won't fight for a ball, a 3/4 speed Watkins, and our approximate 8th stringer. Who the heck is TT supposed to throw to? Ever since Anthony Lynn took over after the 0-2 start and the Bills ran off 4 straight wins, I've been concerned the league's D coordinators would figure Lynn out. I think that's happened. I think the reason the Bills O died against Oakland wasn't all TT, it was whoever the Raiders' D coordinator is, figured out how to stop them. All season long, when TT got in trouble, he'd move a certain way to escape pressure, and then run for a first down or throw an incomplete pass. The Raiders saw where TT likes to go, and had guys waiting there. On one occasion TT actually ran into the guy's arms. This is a very smart league where you have to be changing and adapting all the time. The Bills don't make adjustments at halftime, to my eye. Now it's bad luck that we got wiped out in two positions -- safety and WR -- and that made Wrecks and Lynn's schemes not work. But it's their damn jobs to figure out a new approach based on the guys actually on the field, not to keep failing with 8th stringers because that's our scheme and we're sticking to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted December 8, 2016 Share Posted December 8, 2016 How many wins would you say he is responsible for? How many losses would you say he is responsible for? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K D Posted December 8, 2016 Share Posted December 8, 2016 Opportunities to win games at the end were there. Ravens, Jets, Dolphins, Seahawks. He failed every time. A competent QB wins at least half of those and we are in the playoffs. A great QB might win them all and we are a super bowl contender. Tyrod can't run the 2 min drill. Whether it be the end of the half or the end of the game. He can't do it and therefore cannot be an NFL QB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ricojes Posted December 8, 2016 Share Posted December 8, 2016 Lets all address the elephant in the room: Coach and Quarterback. "the elephant in the room" = a major problem or controversial issue that is obviously present but avoided as a subject for discussion because it is more comfortable to do so. It's about time someone finally said something about the Coach and QB..... Slow Clap.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackOrton Posted December 8, 2016 Share Posted December 8, 2016 How many losses would you say he is responsible for? 3 maybe 4. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Posted December 8, 2016 Share Posted December 8, 2016 Put Tyrod on the Patriots and how many wins would they have. Put Brady on the Bills and how many wins do they have Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleeding Bills Blue Posted December 8, 2016 Share Posted December 8, 2016 Jim Schwartz's defense worked with an offense that had almost no run game and the passing game was always going three and out, yet was #4 overall. Now imagine if that year's defense had this year's offense. The 2016 Bills would be 10-2 as they would have feasibly beaten the Jets, Dolphins, Seahawks, and Ravens. Pretty much proof that the offense and defense are independent of one another. The offense goes 3 and out, the defense can't blame a TD on the fact that the offense didn't score. They could easily force the opposing team to go 3 and out... we just never do. Tyrod has not been good, but don't put a single bit of the defensive sides struggles on him. He legit has nothing to do with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BmarvB Posted December 8, 2016 Share Posted December 8, 2016 Lets all address the elephant in the room: Coach and Quarterback. While its easy to dump all the blame on Tyrod on Rex its illogical. Think back to when we 1st hired Rex (Bad Decision, I called it, *pats himself on the back*), we had a top 5 defense that was rolling on all cylinders and developing quality DBs season after season. Then Moron bails out on us and the franchise goes through a small re-boot. Rex comes in looking at our defenses production the last 2 years and pops a boner. Unfortunately Rex forgot that the type of players the Bills had in strength were almost the opposite of the type of rosters that brought Rex his glory days. Buffalo had a cold front that could bring pressure rushing 4 with no blitz. In the Ryan scheme the D Line are space eaters and the blitz comes from Linebackers and DB. This should have been a big indication the Rex Ryan scheme would take time to implement properly. Next problem, we had no QB, Rex had Tyrod in his back pocket and and EJ Manuel who he saw 2 times a year for a year and a half I think, he went QB competition and Tyrod won the job. At this point with the acquiring of Shady McCoy, Rex was gonna go to his normal scheme, strong run game, stout stingy defense, ball control and turnover free football. Without a #1 draft pick and holes to fill on the offense the options at QB in 2015 were so limited we almost had MATT !@#$ING CASSEL start for us!! The marrying of these two problems under the Rex Ryan coaching was a plan for disaster. For one reason and its NOT TYROD TAYLOR. Taylor at this point in his development, is what he is, a game manager QB that makes boom or bust plays and will not take over a game with his arm. He is not the QB that will lead you back from a 2/3 TD defect but, he wont throw 3 INTs a game and be the reason you lose when you are up. For Rexs scheme to work with this team our defensive talent has to be on par with what Denver has rite now, and we just dont have it. If the defense under-preforms the offense isnt good enough to pick up the slack. So we have a scheme that relies on a stout defense, strong run and no turnovers. We have the run game, we have a game manager QB that doesn't turn it over much but, we DONT have a stout defense. This is why we are 6-6 and continue to middle around until the team gets better players, We need a new scheme that fits our players strengths Or a magical franchise QB that can come in and mask our teams deficiencies but that is unlikely. If the Bills like someone in round 1 at QB I say take the shot, even though we have glaring needs at CB/WR/S/RT, which needs to be addressed. If you look at how our team plays, the scheme in which we use to succeed its easy to see until the defense makes major improvements we wont be able to win with this scheme even if Taylor can magically start seeing the field better. We are not built to come back from huge deficits, its a testament to Shady, the O-Line and Tyrods un-conventional style that we put up 20+ ppg. What do you guys think is more important to change rite that would yield the quickest positive results? The Scheme? The players? The Coach? or the Quarterback? Coaching. Rex is overrated, and his scheme is outdated. I do like Anthony Lynn as OC. Would love to have Schwartz back (or any DC who can excel with the 4-3 defense). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleeding Bills Blue Posted December 8, 2016 Share Posted December 8, 2016 (edited) Opportunities to win games at the end were there. Ravens, Jets, Dolphins, Seahawks. He failed every time. A competent QB wins at least half of those and we are in the playoffs. A great QB might win them all and we are a super bowl contender. Tyrod can't run the 2 min drill. Whether it be the end of the half or the end of the game. He can't do it and therefore cannot be an NFL QB The jets one is tough. I know he threw the INT when we were in FG range. But we then let them drive down for like 6 minutes and score 3. Then we got stuffed on 4th (that terrible 2 play sequence is pretty much why they fired GR). Then they scored another TD. Where's the Defensive stop there? 17 points on their last 3 drives of that game. Miami was the same thing. 21 points on 4 drives. The 4th? They started at the 1 and got to our 40 and punted. 0 killer instinct. Worst part is - most of those drives had tons of rushing yards. Its supposed to be our strength, and we got gashed by Forte and Ajayi. Same last week with Murray and Richard. Our "strong" d-line is soft when it counts just like Tyrod. Edited December 8, 2016 by dneveu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevestojan Posted December 8, 2016 Share Posted December 8, 2016 (edited) I'd argue he is responsible (by responsible I mean, another QB wouldn't have done what he did, good or bad) for 3 wins and 4 losses. I'm not a TT basher or disciple. But I can't believe we're talking about him more than the defense when talking about the OAK game. Edited December 8, 2016 by stevestojan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3rdand12 Posted December 8, 2016 Share Posted December 8, 2016 You know, there might just be MORE THAN ONE SINGLE REASON. Humanity is circling the drain. its looking like a trend doesn't it LOLz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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