Augie Posted December 8, 2016 Posted December 8, 2016 That's 90% of the GM's job right there. Whaley has very clearly demonstrated that he cannot evaluate/scout/draft a QB. This isn't even debatable. I put EJ on Nix (because he showed his cards and said he's take a shot before he left...and he was leaving). If it was easy everyone would have one. Kelly never won a SB. It doesn't mean he wasn't a good QB. It does not mean Whaley cannot evaluate and get a QB, it just means he has not yet (as far as we know, but there's an outside shot with Cardale). It's not like Whaley is 17 years on the job.
BringBackOrton Posted December 8, 2016 Posted December 8, 2016 I put EJ on Nix (because he showed his cards and said he's take a shot before he left...and he was leaving). If it was easy everyone would have one. Kelly never won a SB. It doesn't mean he wasn't a good QB. It does not mean Whaley cannot evaluate and get a QB, it just means he has not yet (as far as we know, but there's an outside shot with Cardale). It's not like Whaley is 17 years on the job. Even if that was true (which is really hasn't shown to be), how do justify a GM spending a solitary 4th rounder in 3 years on a team with no franchise QB? And then, if you do hold Whaley accountable for EJ, it's even more damning.
Augie Posted December 8, 2016 Posted December 8, 2016 Even if that was true (which is really hasn't shown to be), how do justify a GM spending a solitary 4th rounder in 3 years on a team with no franchise QB? And then, if you do hold Whaley accountable for EJ, it's even more damning. I believe it too be true, because Nix said it was before and after. Did they reach because he HAD to take a QB? Sure, probably. They also gave Tyrod a shot, don't forget that. It was a legit chance to find a viable option. Why would you exclude from the conversation our QB for the last 2 years (unless it doesn't fit your agenda)? It was worth a shot and can't be ignored. They also drafted a very talented project in Cardale. They may not have found the answer, but don't say they aren't looking and taking shots. I'm off to college hoops now.
Wayne Cubed Posted December 8, 2016 Posted December 8, 2016 I dunno that it's just that simple. We have a defensive coach with a bad defense, a GM who can't read a trade value chart and a team that just rolls over when things get bad. I think we need more than just a good QB. The Oakland Raiders say hello. They have a defensive coach with a very, very bad defense. Know the difference? A QB.
Buffalo Barbarian Posted December 8, 2016 Posted December 8, 2016 It seems like there are a lot of opinions on this board about who we should blame for the past 17 years of failure in Buffalo: Russ Brandon, Nix/Whaley, terrible coaching selections, etc. My question is this, how does this all get turned around in your opinion beyond just a sweeping "fire everybody?" Is there something beyond just playing musical chairs at coach that we can do to change the team around? I just scratch my head because it seems institutional now. I kept thinking Wilson's age and lack of involvement with the team was the driving factor behind our futility but we've switched owners and it feels like the same song, different verse. Feel free to merge this thread to whichever complaints thread you want if the question seems redundant, but I would like to hear what you guys think can be done this offseason to give this team some spine and start moving us in the right direction. Thanks all. Clean house
Boatdrinks Posted December 8, 2016 Posted December 8, 2016 Are you sure the problem is the organization? Could it be that the problem is much narrower than that, i.e., an incompetent HC? If it's the latter, then why would you clean house top to bottom? It's amazing how quickly a guy becomes a "good" HC when he gets a real QB. Not an endorsement for Rex, but it seems this is the key to the team's success and lack of it in the past.
KRT88 Posted December 8, 2016 Posted December 8, 2016 (edited) Find the right QB. honestly, that's the answer Oakland was a train wreck. Now they have a QB who is becoming elite and everyone raves about this up and coming organization. The QB is the key, the QB is everything. We've been trying for 16 years, and until we get that right, this organization will continue to not function correctly. Clean house has that worked in the past? How many coaches in this century? Pittsburgh, 3 coaches in my lifetime and I'm 47! 3, heck we've had 3 this decade. How many GM's this century? cleaning house doesn't work You have to find the QB Edited December 8, 2016 by KRT88
Beef Jerky Posted December 8, 2016 Posted December 8, 2016 (edited) honestly, that's the answer Oakland was a train wreck. Now they have a QB who is becoming elite and everyone raves about this up and coming organization. The QB is the key, the QB is everything. We've been trying for 16 years, and until we get that right, this organization will continue to not function correctly. has that worked in the past? How many coaches in this century? Pittsburgh, 3 coaches in my lifetime and I'm 47! 3, heck we've had 3 this decade. How many GM's this century? cleaning house doesn't work You have to find the QB Cleaning house does work... Those team picked the house properly that is why they don't need to keep cleaning house. You want the other side just look at the Rams... Lack of cleaning house has made them a constant disappointment. You talking about QB but do you think we have a proper house that can evaluate a QB? Edited December 8, 2016 by Beef Jerky
MDH Posted December 8, 2016 Posted December 8, 2016 I dunno that it's just that simple. We have a defensive coach with a bad defense, a GM who can't read a trade value chart and a teasm that just rolls over when things get bad. I think we need more than just a good QB. The Raiders have a defensive coach with a bad defense. Everything seems fine in Raiderland though. A quality QB helps hide the teams other warts. Its not a cure all but it sure helps a ton. To have a top tier QB and still be a consistent loser you have to do pretty much everything else wrong. Like, say, the Chargers.
Chandler#81 Posted December 8, 2016 Posted December 8, 2016 I dunno that it's just that simple. We have a defensive coach with a bad defense, a GM who can't read a trade value chart and a team that just rolls over when things get bad. I think we need more than just a good QB. It isn't that simple. Sure, finding an Aaron Rogers will help, but it doesn't guarantee anything. Fouts, Marino, Tarkenton, Archie M to name a few and boatload more exceptional QB's never 'got it done'. For as scary as this may seem, nothing short of Rex being here 6+ years is going to help. Imo. Pitt, NE, GB, B'more and a few others have shown longevity in a system eventually provides consistent winning. Injuries, no matter how severe and consistent, wreck every team every year. The plan is to fill your roster with 53 starters IN YOUR SYSTEM. They don't have to be Pro Bowlers all, just very effective in the overall, time developed system. Continuous change -as we've been dealing with- changes your defense from #4 to current #25 ranking until you get 25 players who know and excel in the system you run. Yes, coaches will be poached and high priced players will leave via FA, but then you'll know who will best come in or step up to fill the void. Work on keeping positional coaches who will step up when a coordinator leaves for a HC position so the continuity remains. No other methodology has worked for us and no other will. I'm a Doug Whaley fan . His scout team is among the best, IMO, and he's added stronger quality every year he's been here. It's a tough pill to swallow, but we must play this out. REX = Buffalo Bills, or we never get any good. Just my 2 sense.
Fixxxer Posted December 8, 2016 Posted December 8, 2016 I believe we have everything in place to be a winning franchise except for QB and DC. Spend resources and time to draft the right QB and bring someone like Vic Fangio to coach the D.
Saxum Posted December 8, 2016 Posted December 8, 2016 Everyone but her and the guy that cleans the bathroom out by the Fieldhouse. Those two deserve to stay. Why does Leroi get to stay?
vorpma Posted December 8, 2016 Posted December 8, 2016 It all starts at the very top of the org in that this team is in desperate need of a team president of football operations. Someone that has enough NFL football acumen to know who to hire as GM, as HC, as trainers and a decent doctor This new owner is more than rich enough to hire the very best NFL advisers / headhunters to advise him as to who to hire as team president of football operations. Then the owner should stand back and let the man fix this franchise! Even if this team traded for one of the elite franchise QB's it isn't going to change the ineptitude of the GM not bringing in equal or better players when the team loses a player. Example, It took three years to replace LG Andy Levitre and even then it was because the new HC vouched for a previously suspended player. Rex Ryan also chased OG La'el Collins who now plays for the Cowboys and that would be a huge upgrade for the line. Another example is losing WR Chris Hogan to the Patriots who already had a very solid receiving corps. Speaking of the Patriots they also traded for star TE Martellus Bennett from the Bears. Plus they drafted a WR in the 4th round who is starting to make an impact. Obtaining an elite franchise QB isn't going to fix the defense or find scouts that can actually properly evaluate college, NFL talent to find those quality draft picks and FA players. A new QB isn't going to fix the injury problems or the team doctors giving the okay to draft injured players. The best post on this topic; this is a failed organization.
Mr. WEO Posted December 8, 2016 Posted December 8, 2016 I put EJ on Nix (because he showed his cards and said he's take a shot before he left...and he was leaving). If it was easy everyone would have one. Kelly never won a SB. It doesn't mean he wasn't a good QB. It does not mean Whaley cannot evaluate and get a QB, it just means he has not yet (as far as we know, but there's an outside shot with Cardale). It's not like Whaley is 17 years on the job. I believe it too be true, because Nix said it was before and after. Did they reach because he HAD to take a QB? Sure, probably. They also gave Tyrod a shot, don't forget that. It was a legit chance to find a viable option. Why would you exclude from the conversation our QB for the last 2 years (unless it doesn't fit your agenda)? It was worth a shot and can't be ignored. They also drafted a very talented project in Cardale. They may not have found the answer, but don't say they aren't looking and taking shots. I'm off to college hoops now. It's nice of Nix to fall on the sword for EJ. But what were Whaley and his legion of top scouts doing when Russel Wilson was there for the taking for a paltry 3rd round pick? That was a lay up for a team desperate for a QB and Wilson was not some obscure project. Whaley, like Nix, was stuck at "too short"--the dumbest reason to ignore a QB's body of work to that point. And here we are.....Whaley still giving QB the short shrift in favor of 3 rookie D draftees with minimal impact despite projecting as starters. And that's just this year.
bananathumb Posted December 8, 2016 Posted December 8, 2016 Brandon goes, replaced by a Business Guy and a Football Mind, who promptly fires Whaley and the Ryans, hires Franch Reich or another HC and away we go to the draft. The new FO decides on Tyrod.
May Day 10 Posted December 8, 2016 Posted December 8, 2016 It's nice of Nix to fall on the sword for EJ. But what were Whaley and his legion of top scouts doing when Russel Wilson was there for the taking for a paltry 3rd round pick? That was a lay up for a team desperate for a QB and Wilson was not some obscure project. Whaley, like Nix, was stuck at "too short"--the dumbest reason to ignore a QB's body of work to that point. And here we are.....Whaley still giving QB the short shrift in favor of 3 rookie D draftees with minimal impact despite projecting as starters. And that's just this year. That was all part of the Bills' mastery of outsourcing blame. Nix stays on just long enough to "own the draft" and then walks off, handing the "mess" to his successor. Makes it easy to point to the outside if EJ falters. In reality, Whaley and Brandon were right there too. Whaley and Brandon both got a "reset" when Wilson "stepped away" (another masterful outsourcing of blame)... then another "reset" when Wilson passed and the purchase process.... then, yet another in October of 2014 when Pegula officially was approved as owner.
Sisyphean Bills Posted December 8, 2016 Posted December 8, 2016 I'd love to see some solid QB play at that position. But at times the QB mantra skates way out on the thin ice of hyperbole. Winning is made easier when one has a team with a stud QB. Big chunk plays can be executed. The team can respond to adversity and some mistakes. But this is still a team game. Look at Drew Brees and the Saints. In recent years, they've been a team with a proven QB, but the defense has sucked hugely and they've struggled. Cam Newton was a world-beater last year. The team around him this year has changed and suffered injuries and likely won't even make the playoffs. At the end of the day, "just put Tom Brady on the Browns and they're in the Super Bowl" isn't a very good argument.
BringBackOrton Posted December 8, 2016 Posted December 8, 2016 I believe it too be true, because Nix said it was before and after. Did they reach because he HAD to take a QB? Sure, probably. They also gave Tyrod a shot, don't forget that. It was a legit chance to find a viable option. Why would you exclude from the conversation our QB for the last 2 years (unless it doesn't fit your agenda)? It was worth a shot and can't be ignored. They also drafted a very talented project in Cardale. They may not have found the answer, but don't say they aren't looking and taking shots. I'm off to college hoops now. So if Whaley gives Aaron Murray or some other late round QB a chance to win the job next season, you'd still say he's doing a great job of drafting to address the QB position?
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