bobobonators Posted December 7, 2016 Posted December 7, 2016 I mean it's funny how hard some folks act like it is. We cry over draft picks from 8 years ago. NE has a ton of terrible draft picks and no one cares. We have a far, far better roster than the Colts and they have had success for one reason. When you get the qb, everyone gets better. And you don't find a qb by spending 3 1st round picks on in 30 years. Even after last week's loss and the Colt's win against the Jets, Tyrod has a better winning % than Luck since 2015. The colts have gotten progressively worse since the 2014 season, in the vaunted AFC South. If it was all about the QB, the super bowl would have the GOAT Brees playing in it every single season. Saints can't even make the playoffs for 3 years.
C.Biscuit97 Posted December 7, 2016 Posted December 7, 2016 But we can trade 2 1s for a WR who is rarely on the field. I don't understand why we don't just trade the farm for a good 1st rd Qb and actually give ourselves a chance. The problem is the Bills never stay consistent with a plan. We can argue all day whether EJ ever had a chance to be good but Watkins was drafted to help him. They benched him at 2-2 for a journeyman scrub. Derek Carr had a similar start to his career and was allowed to play through it. The Bills did the same thing with Losman. Odds are those guys just weren't good enough but the jerking back and forth the Bills did with them did them no favors. But in the big picture, you shouldn't give up 2 firsts for anything besides a qb. I still think Sammy can be an elite wr but he still isn't enough of a game changer to give up 2 1sts for. No non-qb is.
May Day 10 Posted December 7, 2016 Posted December 7, 2016 I mean it's funny how hard some folks act like it is. We cry over draft picks from 8 years ago. NE has a ton of terrible draft picks and no one cares. We have a far, far better roster than the Colts and they have had success for one reason. When you get the qb, everyone gets better. And you don't find a qb by spending 3 1st round picks on in 30 years. I always think of Arizona too. Havent 'hit' on a QB, but have made a pretty decent run the past 8 years or so with the likes of Kurt Warner and Carson Palmer. And you look at and envy Philadelphia for how seriously, proactively, and aggressively they pursue their franchise QB.
C.Biscuit97 Posted December 7, 2016 Posted December 7, 2016 Even after last week's loss and the Colt's win against the Jets, Tyrod has a better winning % than Luck since 2015. The colts have gotten progressively worse since the 2014 season, in the vaunted AFC South. If it was all about the QB, the super bowl would have the GOAT Brees playing in it every single season. Saints can't even make the playoffs for 3 years. That just shows how dumb qb winning % is. Put Luck or Brees on the Bills, they are SB contenders. Put Taylor on those teams, they are terrible. I always think of Arizona too. Havent 'hit' on a QB, but have made a pretty decent run the past 8 years or so with the likes of Kurt Warner and Carson Palmer. And you look at and envy Philadelphia for how seriously, proactively, and aggressively they pursue their franchise QB. Good points. The only thing different with Arizona this year and last year is Palmer suddenly got really old. Completely changes their trajectory.
BringBackOrton Posted December 7, 2016 Posted December 7, 2016 (edited) Even after last week's loss and the Colt's win against the Jets, Tyrod has a better winning % than Luck since 2015. The colts have gotten progressively worse since the 2014 season, in the vaunted AFC South. If it was all about the QB, the super bowl would have the GOAT Brees playing in it every single season. Saints can't even make the playoffs for 3 years. Why don't we look at their record since Luck's been playing. Edited December 7, 2016 by jmc12290
bobobonators Posted December 7, 2016 Posted December 7, 2016 Why don't we look at their record since Luck's been playing. Simple, b/c TT wasn't starting before 2015.
yungmack Posted December 7, 2016 Posted December 7, 2016 Even after last week's loss and the Colt's win against the Jets, Tyrod has a better winning % than Luck since 2015. The colts have gotten progressively worse since the 2014 season, in the vaunted AFC South. If it was all about the QB, the super bowl would have the GOAT Brees playing in it every single season. Saints can't even make the playoffs for 3 years. It isn't all about the QB but that's the Number One priority. After that, a QB needs a strong running game, a good to great line and receivers. And a coaching staff that knows what it's doing and builds around the QBs strengths. Without those other elements, you wind up with David Carr, Andrew Luck (and maybe Carson Wentz), good to great talent wasted because the rest of the formula isn't there. With those other elements, a low draft pick such as a Dak Prescott, a Derek Carr and, yes, a Tom Brady can step in and flourish. I wonder if we'd ever have heard about Brady if he'd wound up on a perennial loser.
BringBackOrton Posted December 7, 2016 Posted December 7, 2016 Simple, b/c TT wasn't starting before 2015. He was in the NFL.
bobobonators Posted December 7, 2016 Posted December 7, 2016 It isn't all about the QB but that's the Number One priority. After that, a QB needs a strong running game, a good to great line and receivers. And a coaching staff that knows what it's doing and builds around the QBs strengths. Without those other elements, you wind up with David Carr, Andrew Luck (and maybe Carson Wentz), good to great talent wasted because the rest of the formula isn't there. With those other elements, a low draft pick such as a Dak Prescott, a Derek Carr and, yes, a Tom Brady can step in and flourish. I wonder if we'd ever have heard about Brady if he'd wound up on a perennial loser. I 100% agree with everything you said. My point being, it's not that simple to find a winning strategy. A great QB is obviously the goal of any franchise. However, plenty of franchises still manage to win games and make it to the playoffs with average QB play.
ndirish1978 Posted December 7, 2016 Author Posted December 7, 2016 We need to get better on the boundaries on both sides of the ball, I don't have an issue with our lines.
bobobonators Posted December 7, 2016 Posted December 7, 2016 He was in the NFL. JMC, lets not circle jerk e/o please.
Luxy312 Posted December 7, 2016 Posted December 7, 2016 IMO, the problem isn't institutional yet. If every organization bailed after the first two years of average records for coaches, what would have happened with Seattle under Pete Carroll and his two 7-9 seasons? I think that despite the fact that we're running on 17 years without the playoffs that THAT frustration can't be pinned on a guy who's been a starting QB for just two years or a coach that just took over and is finishing his second year. The deficiencies on this team are pretty obvious when our best players get hurt. Having as many WR's hurt this year as they have is a big deal. Would this team have done better with Watkins in the lineup every week. What about Dareus on defense? We'll never know of course what "could have been" because they were along with many others. At times, Taylor has been absolutely electric. At other times, he's been a dumpster fire. More than anything for me, the play calling when the team needs to advance the ball down the field and scoring is lacking. I'm not going to blame Taylor for two runs followed by a screen pass for a 3 and out, when that's what they're telling him to do. Offensively and defensively, I believe this team is better than it was last year. They probably need one more consistent playmaker on offense and maybe some additional help at safety. Losing Aaron Williams was also huge in that regard, as Ryan defenses are predicated on strong man cover players. Losing Watkins, then his backup (Woods) and then the backup to the backup (Goodwin) didn't help offensively.
C.Biscuit97 Posted December 7, 2016 Posted December 7, 2016 I 100% agree with everything you said. My point being, it's not that simple to find a winning strategy. A great QB is obviously the goal of any franchise. However, plenty of franchises still manage to win games and make it to the playoffs with average QB play. Not consistency unless there are extreme outliners. Denver has one of the best defenses in the NFL but even decrypt Manning was respected enough. Alex Smith is a flawed guy but was good enough to be a #1 pick. Basically, for guys like TT, you need an almost perfect time around them. And if that is true, why pay them a lot of money?
bobobonators Posted December 7, 2016 Posted December 7, 2016 IMO, the problem isn't institutional yet. If every organization bailed after the first two years of average records for coaches, what would have happened with Seattle under Pete Carroll and his two 7-9 seasons? I think that despite the fact that we're running on 17 years without the playoffs that THAT frustration can't be pinned on a guy who's been a starting QB for just two years or a coach that just took over and is finishing his second year. The deficiencies on this team are pretty obvious when our best players get hurt. Having as many WR's hurt this year as they have is a big deal. Would this team have done better with Watkins in the lineup every week. What about Dareus on defense? We'll never know of course what "could have been" because they were along with many others. At times, Taylor has been absolutely electric. At other times, he's been a dumpster fire. More than anything for me, the play calling when the team needs to advance the ball down the field and scoring is lacking. I'm not going to blame Taylor for two runs followed by a screen pass for a 3 and out, when that's what they're telling him to do. Offensively and defensively, I believe this team is better than it was last year. They probably need one more consistent playmaker on offense and maybe some additional help at safety. Losing Aaron Williams was also huge in that regard, as Ryan defenses are predicated on strong man cover players. Losing Watkins, then his backup (Woods) and then the backup to the backup (Goodwin) didn't help offensively. Overall, I 100% agree with everything you said. Above all, I think we should actually let the season play out, before commenting on "turning things around".
May Day 10 Posted December 7, 2016 Posted December 7, 2016 Invent a time machine, and make sure Russ Brandon turns over the stone with Andy Reid under it, and not Doug Marrone
ndirish1978 Posted December 7, 2016 Author Posted December 7, 2016 More than just bad QB play I'm more concerned with the fact that we HAD good young players last year who are now regressing rather than developing. I don't think it's disputed the fact that Gilmore and Darby were WAY better last year than this year, IMO same thing with Preston Brown. That's coaching. Unfortunately the FO hasn't shown that they actually know how to hire a decent HC, so we could fire Rex and very likely end up with someone even worse.
Saxum Posted December 7, 2016 Posted December 7, 2016 It seems like there are a lot of opinions on this board about who we should blame for the past 17 years of failure in Buffalo: Russ Brandon, Nix/Whaley, terrible coaching selections, etc. My question is this, how does this all get turned around in your opinion beyond just a sweeping "fire everybody?" Is there something beyond just playing musical chairs at coach that we can do to change the team around? I just scratch my head because it seems institutional now. I kept thinking Wilson's age and lack of involvement with the team was the driving factor behind our futility but we've switched owners and it feels like the same song, different verse. Feel free to merge this thread to whichever complaints thread you want if the question seems redundant, but I would like to hear what you guys think can be done this offseason to give this team some spine and start moving us in the right direction. Thanks all. It gets fixed by team being sold with guarantee that Buffalo gets a team in future; this enables the staff filled with the Lerois, Yeezuses, etc to lose jobs and when new team is staffed it is filled top down with staff understanding that leaks for office politics will be treated as fired with cause events.
dave mcbride Posted December 7, 2016 Posted December 7, 2016 That just shows how dumb qb winning % is. Put Luck or Brees on the Bills, they are SB contenders. Put Taylor on those teams, they are terrible. Good points. The only thing different with Arizona this year and last year is Palmer suddenly got really old. Completely changes their trajectory. Agree 100 percent with this.
White Linen Posted December 7, 2016 Posted December 7, 2016 Find the right QB. It's the only correct answer
vorpma Posted December 7, 2016 Posted December 7, 2016 If I was Pegula I would hire an outside consultant to review the organization and make suggestions of what to change. Exactly; this organization has a losing culture and has for 15 years. Follow the psychological concept of organizational culture; clean house completely and start again.
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