gjv001 Posted December 5, 2016 Author Posted December 5, 2016 Nope. Can't blame the defense for getting gassed and run over when TT went 3 and out and then an INT on the next in the second half. Yes, the D needs to make stops, but what is the limit or breaking point when they keep trotting back out on the field after successive 3 and outs to get run over? Why didn't our defense have Oakland go 3 and out? So would he be better than say the current QB in Denver? Yes!!!
Big Gun Posted December 5, 2016 Posted December 5, 2016 Dude, you simply cannot stop defending one of the worst head coaches this team has had in years. His defensive scheme stinks and no great QB is going to change the fact that with the #2 defense in sacks and the #2 player in getting sacks the defense could not get any pass rush on the Raiders QB to even slow him down in the second half! I'd call it a definite Bromance between you and Rex Ryan! Or stop defending him as this was an entire team loss, offense, defense and special teams let down in the second half. That...says...coaching! The QB is a major issue no question. The team's coaches know the man's limitations in throwing the ball and yet have no qualms about forcing him to do that when the run game falters. I put the offensive failure to move the chains against the 30th ranked raiders defense squarely on the coaching staff as that Bills offense put up 24 points in the first three-quarters! LeSean McCoy 7.6 yards per rush, Mike Gillilsee 6.1 yards per rush.The Buffalo run game averaging 7.1 yards per carry against the Raiders 1st QTR Bills, pass, pass, pass, pass, pass, pass, Mccoy run, FG 3-0 2nd QTR Bills, Run, pass, Run, pass, Run, Run, Run, Run, Run, Run, Run TD 10-9 at the half. 9 runs vs 2 passes to score a TD! 2nd QTR Bills, Pass, run, run, sack, run, pass, PUNT. 2nd QTR Bills, Run, pass, penalty, run, run, run, pass, PUNT. 3rd QTR Bills, Run, Run, TD! 3rd QTR Bills, Pass, pass, pass, run, run, pass, run, pass, pass, run, run, TD! nice combination of both passing and running to score. Now suddenly 3 basic 3 and outs for the Bills. 3rd QTR Bills, run, run, pass PUNT - ineffective series because on 3rd and 4 the Bills can't make a first down by throwing. 3rd QTR Bills, pass, run, penalty, pass, PUNT. 4th QTR Bills, Run, pass, pass, PUNT. 4th QTR Bills, Taylor throwing from the Bills own end zone has his arm hit as he throws, INT! Why not run the ball to give the QB some room to throw? 4th QTR Bills, pass, pass, run, pass, pass, SACK, pass, pass, run, run, pass, pass, Penalty, pass, SACK-FUMBLE! 4th QTR Bills, pass, pass, pass, end of game. I have issues with the team attempting to force a QB who is a running QB to suddenly become a pocket QB to win the game. In my view coaches fault. No, I'm not giving Taylor a pass here because he stunk. But then we all know he stinks when attempting to win a game with his arm! What's more is his coaches also know this and yet force him to try to win it with his arm. Why no draw play, no end around, no wildcat on third down. Let EJ throw the GD thing if he comes in at QB. The Bills offense went into a shell and they paid for it. The defense went into a shell and they paid for it. It was an entire team failure halfway through the 3rd quarter, the players, the coaches, the game plan all stunk it up! God forbid, asking a QB to do basic QB things. Keep the excuse train rolling, CoT!
The Big Cat Posted December 5, 2016 Posted December 5, 2016 The QB still needs to be efficient enough to sustain offense by hitting open receivers with accuracy and timing to allow them to continue drives. Tyrod Taylor simply does not do this well enough to win on a consistent basis. I don't have any issue with "ground and pound." I think you can win that way and I think we have 95% of the pieces necessary to do so. But we effectively eliminate the "pound" aspect when we can't effectively sustain drives. And when that happens the whole game plan falls apart. We don't have the quarterback to get into a track meet and we don't have any elite players on the backside of the defense to make game changing plays. The league and its rules are not structured to benefit defenses, so we keep the margin for error as slim as we possibly can. This relies entirely on our ability to possess the ball. When we don't, we lose. It's not that hard. It's been plainly obvious for two seasons now. And again, I don't fault the plan. We are not built to win otherwise.
Nihilarian Posted December 5, 2016 Posted December 5, 2016 What folks need to understand is a qb tossing for 500 yards was never what the Rex brand of football was supposed to be. It's supposed to be game manager QB who can make some plays along side a stout run game and put up 20-30 points with a stout defense that keeps opponent scoring under 20. TT isn't a shootout qb. The offense isn't built for it the scheme isn't built for it. Every single Rex supporter needs to understand this. And that this brand of football only works with elite linebacking and secondary talent consistently on the field. That's why this team is completely outclassed by the good teams Very well put! The Rex Ryan fanboys want to blame the offense. The QB haters want to blame the QB too. The reality is this team's defense has only beaten teams with bad QB's. The 2016 Buffalo Bills have yet to beat a QB with a winning record. They still face the Steelers 7-5 and Dolphins 7-5. At 6-6 with 4 games to go against two winners, two losers the end result will probably be 8-8...again.
goldenboy81 Posted December 5, 2016 Posted December 5, 2016 It doesnt matter with the d or special teams..When u dont have a qb that can win any 4th quarter in a season, its time for a change.. As much as i dont like rex or the plays that are called, the defense has won games this year.. How many has tyrod won? Simple as that
The Big Cat Posted December 5, 2016 Posted December 5, 2016 The Rex Ryan fanboys want to blame the offense. This false equivalent is a mark of intellectual vacancy that pervades a certain element of Bills fans. Whether or not it's willful is still up for debate. But I'm beginning to wonder.
26CornerBlitz Posted December 5, 2016 Posted December 5, 2016 I don't have any issue with "ground and pound." I think you can win that way and I think we have 95% of the pieces necessary to do so. But we effectively eliminate the "pound" aspect when we can't effectively sustain drives. And when that happens the whole game plan falls apart. We don't have the quarterback to get into a track meet and we don't have any elite players on the backside of the defense to make game changing plays. The league and its rules are not structured to benefit defenses, so we keep the margin for error as slim as we possibly can. This relies entirely on our ability to possess the ball. When we don't, we lose. It's not that hard. It's been plainly obvious for two seasons now. And again, I don't fault the plan. We are not built to win otherwise. Neither do I, but you need all three phases to work when facing upper echelon teams. The stalled drives you can get away with against weaker teams, but a potent team like the Raiders or Patriots will kill you almost every time when that happens.
The Big Cat Posted December 5, 2016 Posted December 5, 2016 (edited) Neither do I, but you need all three phases to work when facing upper echelon teams. The stalled drives you can get away with against weaker teams, but a potent team like the Raiders or Patriots will kill you almost every time when that happens. Being down 26-9 with 9 minutes to go in the third quarter should be a death sentence for any team, with any quarterback if your opponent sustains drives and keeps the ball out of your hands. Period. At that point, you're really only asking for two more stops from your defense to be in the driver's seat. Edited December 5, 2016 by The Big Cat
Nihilarian Posted December 5, 2016 Posted December 5, 2016 God forbid, asking a QB to do basic QB things. Keep the excuse train rolling, CoT! He did those basic things very well up until the middle of the 3rd QTR when the Raiders shut down the run game and started forcing the Bills to throw. I contend the Bills offensive coaches should have found a way to keep moving the chains with the run game. ie, coaches! The offense failed... the QB failed! The defense failed... the pass rush failed! The special teams! The coaches failed! The entire team failed! Those facts won't deter your focus on the QB though!
4merper4mer Posted December 5, 2016 Posted December 5, 2016 This false equivalent is a mark of intellectual vacancy that pervades a certain element of Bills fans. Whether or not it's willful is still up for debate. But I'm beginning to wonder. You're condescending crap is hilarious. False equivalent lol. What should a Rex defense do with a 15 point 3rd quarter lead handed to them by the Bills offense and the Raiders playing dropsy all game? Unless the answer is "give up TDs like is a 23 minute long 2 minute drill" then the defense failed yesterday. and please define: and we don't have any elite players on the backside of the defense to make game changing plays. Because it is a little too much to ask for Ed Reed, Darrell Revis, Chris McAlister and Ronnie Lott all in their prime to be able to make a play once in a while. I get that there are injuries but players who have had success before Rex got here are now the scapegoat for all of our problems on defense. Sounds familiar. Where have I heard this before? Last year? Or was that next year? Because it will be next year too. We were up 15 points in the second half yesterday and lost by two touchdowns and you're blaming the offense again.
The Big Cat Posted December 5, 2016 Posted December 5, 2016 (edited) You're condescending crap is hilarious. False equivalent lol. What should a Rex defense do with a 15 point 3rd quarter lead handed to them by the Bills offense and the Raiders playing dropsy all game? Unless the answer is "give up TDs like is a 23 minute long 2 minute drill" then the defense failed yesterday. and please define: Because it is a little too much to ask for Ed Reed, Darrell Revis, Chris McAlister and Ronnie Lott all in their prime to be able to make a play once in a while. I get that there are injuries but players who have had success before Rex got here are now the scapegoat for all of our problems on defense. Sounds familiar. Where have I heard this before? Last year? Or was that next year? Because it will be next year too. We were up 15 points in the second half yesterday and lost by two touchdowns and you're blaming the offense again. Best way to keep your opponent from scoring is to not let them have the ball. We did the opposite of that. What you've posted above is some circular logic that really can't be discussed because it takes basic assumptions right off the board in order to serve your own repetitive and vapid thesis that the coaching is to blame. You got one thing right: I'm being condescending as hell. Edited December 5, 2016 by The Big Cat
Nihilarian Posted December 5, 2016 Posted December 5, 2016 (edited) Being down 26-9 with 9 minutes to go in the third quarter should be a death sentence for any team, with any quarterback if your opponent sustains drives and keeps the ball out of your hands. Period. At that point, you're really only asking for two more stops from your defense to be in the driver's seat. It should be a death sentence being down 26-9 for a team going against a team with the #2 sacking defense in the league, with the #2 player in getting sacks. Exactly how many times did the Bills sack Derek Carr? Edited December 5, 2016 by Nihilarian
The Big Cat Posted December 5, 2016 Posted December 5, 2016 It should be a death sentence being down 26-9 for a team going against a team with the #2 sacking defense in the league, with the #2 player in getting sacks. Exactly how many times did the Bills sack Derek Carr? Go ahead and lookup Carr's sack percentage heading into Sunday then tell me your expectation is anything approaching reasonable. Spoiler alert: it's not. He doesn't get sacked.
stevewin Posted December 5, 2016 Posted December 5, 2016 Don't understand why for so many it's a Defense or QB suck question, as if they are mutually exclusive. They both suck
BringBackOrton Posted December 5, 2016 Posted December 5, 2016 Go ahead and lookup Carr's sack percentage heading into Sunday then tell me your expectation is anything approaching reasonable. Spoiler alert: it's not. He doesn't get sacked. When your expectation is for this defense to play above average is unreasonable, you fire the man running the defense, no?
4merper4mer Posted December 5, 2016 Posted December 5, 2016 Best way to keep your opponent from scoring is to not let them have the ball. The pesky rules say they are allowed to get the ball. I agree with you that Carpenter is a big jerk for kicking it to them after we scored to go up 15 but Roger Goodell made him. Even BB hasn't figured a way around this one....yet. We did the opposite of that. What you've posted above is some circular logic that really can't be discussed because it takes basic assumptions right off the board in order to serve your own repetitive and vapid thesis that the coaching is to blame. You got one thing right: I'm being condescending as hell. I asked you repeatedly during the off season what if any standards you think the defense should achieve with their cadre of high draft picks replenishing a top 4 defense from ancient times....1 year previous. You came up with some metrics that seemed to make sense. Go back and measure against your own metrics and you'll find these results: or you can use your dime store knowledge of logic and reason and talk down to people. Be sure to throw in words like vapid to make yourself sound smart. That'll win the argument for you.
The Big Cat Posted December 5, 2016 Posted December 5, 2016 When your expectation is for this defense to play above average is unreasonable, you fire the man running the defense, no? They were well above average (for a game against Oakland). Until the offense hung them out to dry in the second half. The pesky rules say they are allowed to get the ball. I agree with you that Carpenter is a big jerk for kicking it to them after we scored to go up 15 but Roger Goodell made him. Even BB hasn't figured a way around this one....yet. I asked you repeatedly during the off season what if any standards you think the defense should achieve with their cadre of high draft picks replenishing a top 4 defense from ancient times....1 year previous. You came up with some metrics that seemed to make sense. Go back and measure against your own metrics and you'll find these results: or you can use your dime store knowledge of logic and reason and talk down to people. Be sure to throw in words like vapid to make yourself sound smart. That'll win the argument for you. Remind me what the metrics were. I do believe this conversation is what prompted the heat maps, which clearly showed that neither the offense nor the defense stuck out as particularly bad, but that the defense was more often good than the offense in 2015. If you're going to allude to something, please help refresh my memory. Anything else would be vapid.
BringBackOrton Posted December 5, 2016 Posted December 5, 2016 They were well above average (for a game against Oakland). Until the offense hung them out to dry in the second half. Yes, that single 3 and out really broke their back on the next TD drive.
KOKBILLS Posted December 5, 2016 Posted December 5, 2016 I think that Tyrod Taylor is not the type of QB that will bring a team back with his arm. However, he can manage a game, is careful with the ball, and can score points. He would be a good QB for a team with a strong defense. I could see a strong case made, that the perfect team for Tyrod Taylor to thrive and be highly successful, year in year out, is Denver. From my perspective,our Defense, or lack there of, is the Bill's number one problem. I don't know if it's the lack of quality defensive players or the scheme that they play. However it's obvious they cannot stop the run or the pass. The Defense does mostly suck...The secondary is terrible (kinda like what happened with the Jets after Revis left...Coincidence?)... But the QB position is the #1 problem with the Bills...Don't kid yourself...
4merper4mer Posted December 5, 2016 Posted December 5, 2016 They were well above average (for a game against Oakland). Until the offense hung them out to dry in the second half. Remind me what the metrics were. I do believe this conversation is what prompted the heat maps, which clearly showed that neither the offense nor the defense stuck out as particularly bad, but that the defense was more often good than the offense in 2015. If you're going to allude to something, please help refresh my memory. Anything else would be vapid. You said something along the lines of the defense allowing 80% of the opposing teams average YPG would be a good measure. It was something like that. You look it up. You wrote it. In the mean time when do you think the momentum changed yesterday? Could it have been the defense giving up a 14 second touchdown drive right after we went up 15. Did the crowd become more of a factor then?
Recommended Posts