Russ Brandon and others...

[Simon]

Whaley was in the room when the coaches were selected. Especially with Rex if he had major reservations he should have asserted himself. That's on him.

 

There were a lot of people in the room when the coaches were selected; the problem being that the majority of them don't know jack squat about football. The guy who knows his business the best happened to be a young, newly minted GM surrounded by new owners and long-time employees entrenched in their positions by current and former management. For a young NFL GM who wants to continue to be an NFL GM, that is not an easy environment in which to assert yourself. The fact of the matter is that Whaley shouldn't need to assert himself in that environment; good owners and business managers at that level should display the self-awareness to recognize their limitations and defer to the most knowledgeable man in the room, regardless of his age or experience level. When they don't, you end up with marketing stiffs and powerful people's wives pushing agendas upon which they're clearly not qualified to make decisions. Both of the Pegulas need to tell Whaley that the football decisions are his moving forward and then get the Sam HIll out of his way and take their bean-counters with them. Until this happens there will always be legitimate questions about the role that unqualified people have in the decision-making process of this franchise; and that not only hurts Whaley, it also hurts the prospects of any talented GM's who may be considering taking on this assignment in the future.

 

This team is only about two pieces away from being able to play with anybody in this league:

1) It needs an accurate QB with good decision-making abilities that can attack all parts of the field from within the pocket

2) It needs a professionally-minded HC who's not married to a scheme that puts so much pressure on DB's that it should have been chucked out the window as soon as the NFL stared manipulating rules to create telegenic, pass-happy offenses.

 

Doug Whaley needs to be given the latitude to address these issues without interference or unwanted input from powerful people who are simply not qualified to provide input on these matters. He must be given the opportunity to sink or swim on his own if we ever want to learn if he is worthy of being a long-term GM for this franchise. I may be biased in my assessment, but I think that he is; but until people who should know better get the hell out of his way and let him do the job he was hired to do, we'll not only never know, but will be stuck in the same unproductive feedback loop until they figure it out.

[DriveFor1Outta5]

 

Technically we also had Trent Edwards if you categorize him as a QB. I'd be willing to forgive this oversight on your part given his career and body of work.

 

There's some truth to this, but again, it's always easier to criticize after the fact. I believe a QB should be selected every draft, not only for the hope of developing him but also for future trade currency.

 

RE: The 2004 draft class, I'm quite certain its been documented the Bills were willing to move up to Pitt's spot and grab Big Ben but Pitt told us to F off. If Pittsburgh trades out of the spot, it's unlikely this thread is ever started and you don't want Russ's scalp over a variety of heresy and alleged personnel tinkering.

It is easy to criticize in hindsight I totally agree. You don't just go out and easily pick up a franchise QB. With that being said I just don't understand how this franchise completely ignored the position as often as they did. We should have always been in the market for a QB during the Losman,Holcomb,Edwards,Fitz years. Not selecting any QBs in the 2011 and 2012 drafts was a major travesty. Franchise QBs don't grow on trees, but this franchise's inability to assess QB talent has destroyed us. No one should have viewed any of those guys as potential franchise QBs after seeing them play a season.

[JohnC]

 

 

 

This team is only about two pieces away from being able to play with anybody in this league:

1) It needs an accurate QB with good decision-making abilities that can attack all parts of the field from within the pocket

2) It needs a professionally-minded HC who's not married to a scheme that puts so much pressure on DB's that it should have been chucked out the window as soon as the NFL stared manipulating rules to create telegenic, pass-happy offenses.

 

 

I have on countless occasions been making the same point for the need of a franchise qb (as most people have) in order for us to be a serious team. What is obvious is obvious.

 

Since the hiring of this loquacious coach I have strenuously voiced my opinion that Rex is a huckster who from a coaching philosophy is outdated and out of step with the NFL of today. When you make an important hire and it is a bad hire the consequences are predictable. The worst part of the damage is that you have to go back to the drawing board and start all over again. The cycle of foolishness goes around and around.

[DriveFor1Outta5]

 

 

I hardly give Rusty credit for that. Back in the 90's there were empty stadiums all over the league. The league is a totally different animal the last 15 years. The NFL sells itself. Christ, back in the 90's fantasy football wasn't even evented was it.

 

Far as my friend it is someone I have known my whole life & trust & he has very close workings with Pegs. You could believe what you hear, I will believe what I hear.

Too many people underestimate how much bigger the NFL had gotten during the 00's compared to where it was during the late 90's.

[Simon]

When you make an important hire and it is a bad hire the consequences are predictable. The worst part of the damage is that you have to go back to the drawing board and start all over again. The cycle of foolishness goes around and around.

 

Right this minute we are still fortunate to be at a point early enough in Rex's tenure that we are not necessarily going to have to turn over the defensive roster to accommodate a more traditionally flexible coach. Guys like Lawson, Ragland, ZBrown, AWashington, Darby, etc should be able to easily transition back into more standard 4-3 roles, which would also benefit Kyle, Marcel and Gilmore imo..

I really hope the Bills send the Ryan Bros. Circus down the road to the next county before that is no longer the case.

[re enlightener]

(Obviously this is a bit tounge in cheek but really we're just spinning our wheels and I think to make the long lasting, team/organizational defining changes we need, we need to get new blood in the organization at all levels. We just got new owners so what better time then now? We all deserve it as long time BILLS fans and more importantly to the Pegulas, paying customers.)

dont post and then change tones w a disclaimer. post exactly the point and tone you mean and stick to it. We all know this isnt an exact science. also the common poster here cant read past the first few lines anyway before flaming you and calling u a troll.

[DriveFor1Outta5]

Again, I don't think too many people read my long form post above, but judge Brandon solely on his football decisions as GM from 2008-2009 and he deserves to get fired.

 

Trading Jason Peters (who is STILL starting for Philly) less than a week before the season starts was a terrible idea. Signing Terrell Owens was a joke.

 

Deciding to send one home game a year to Toronto was a terrible business AND football decision. The players themselves hated playing the game, with Eric Wood famously calling the series "a joke" on 97 Rock back in 2012.

 

Hell, I'll even throw extending Dick Jauron's contract mid-2008 season into the mix. A hot start shouldn't have earned him the extension, and he was subsequently fired before the end of the next season.

 

These are all measureable, concrete, examples of Russ Brandon's terrible football management. For these reasons alone, he deserves unemployment. But again, Bud Carpenter, Jim Overdorf, Scott Berchtold et al seem to never not have a job at One Bills Drive, so I don't expect that to change any time soon.

This ^ It's also why I don't buy into the claim that this franchise is "only two years old". There are still enough extremely important people around who are holdovers from the past. That gives this failure of a franchise continuity that wasn't needed. I don't have a lot more to say on this topic, except for the fact that we are the only team that hasn't made the playoffs in the last sixteen years. How can anyone say that there aren't people who need to be held responsible? Sure we haven't found a franchise QB, and if you want you can attribute that to luck. Even teams who haven't found franchise QBs have snuck into the playoffs at least once during our drought. That tells me all I need to know about this franchise's ineptitude.

[Simon]

the common poster here cant read past the first few lines anyway before flaming you and calling u a troll.

 

It sure is quite a co-incidence how often that happens to people that actually are trolls.

You know how they get tossed out of here for being trolling jackasses then have to repeatedly re-register with new monikers.

Not that you would know anything about that......

[Sisyphean Bills]

It is easy to criticize in hindsight I totally agree. You don't just go out and easily pick up a franchise QB. With that being said I just don't understand how this franchise completely ignored the position as often as they did. We should have always been in the market for a QB during the Losman,Holcomb,Edwards,Fitz years. Not selecting any QBs in the 2011 and 2012 drafts was a major travesty. Franchise QBs don't grow on trees, but this franchise's inability to assess QB talent has destroyed us. No one should have viewed any of those guys as potential franchise QBs after seeing them play a season.

 

One of the points that Nix made at his introductory PC was that he believed the Bills already had talent at the QB position. He made a joke about it being hard to play when laying on your back on the field. Nix went out and hired his head coach, Chan Gailey. And he is known for his own brand of stubbornness concerning the QB position. I guess Bowles has finally benched Fitzpicks, but Gailey has stuck with the guy for much of 2016. (Maybe Chan will get Reggie Ball out of retirement.)

 

These two were certainly on the train with shaving the yak again at the QB position.

 

On the other hand, there was the leaking of Nix' phone call. He clearly wasn't a Fitzpicks guy. Later actions and comments confirmed that he really didn't believe in Fitzpicks and had been chomping at the bit to draft a QB.

 

So it begs the question. If Nix, "GM of football", wanted to draft a QB earlier, then what was the hold up? Was he hired with the condition that rehabbing the stable of young, bad QBs was a priority?

 

Another curiosity: Chan Gailey said, at first, he was going to have an open look at the QB position. Then Trent Edwards was the one getting all the work at the #1. Fans were surprised because Fitzpicks had outplayed Edwards the year before. And then, when Edwards trotted out of bounds, refusing to throw the ball, refusing to attempt to make a play, Gailey benched Trentative, Trentative was cut, and the explanation was "we weren't going there again." A very curious comment. Was someone else in the building pushing Trent Edwards forward? Was this a frustrated coach and GM exerting their authority?

[DriveFor1Outta5]

 

One of the points that Nix made at his introductory PC was that he believed the Bills already had talent at the QB position. He made a joke about it being hard to play when laying on your back on the field. Nix went out and hired his head coach, Chan Gailey. And he is known for his own brand of stubbornness concerning the QB position. I guess Bowles has finally benched Fitzpicks, but Gailey has stuck with the guy for much of 2016. (Maybe Chan will get Reggie Ball out of retirement.)

 

These two were certainly on the train with shaving the yak again at the QB position.

 

On the other hand, there was the leaking of Nix' phone call. He clearly wasn't a Fitzpicks guy. Later actions and comments confirmed that he really didn't believe in Fitzpicks and had been chomping at the bit to draft a QB.

 

So it begs the question. If Nix, "GM of football", wanted to draft a QB earlier, then what was the hold up? Was he hired with the condition that rehabbing the stable of young, bad QBs was a priority?

 

Another curiosity: Chan Gailey said, at first, he was going to have an open look at the QB position. Then Trent Edwards was the one getting all the work at the #1. Fans were surprised because Fitzpicks had outplayed Edwards the year before. And then, when Edwards trotted out of bounds, refusing to throw the ball, refusing to attempt to make a play, Gailey benched Trentative, Trentative was cut, and the explanation was "we weren't going there again." A very curious comment. Was someone else in the building pushing Trent Edwards forward? Was this a frustrated coach and GM exerting their authority?

Great post. It articulates some of my biggest concerns about the inner workings of this franchise. You don't just accidentally stumble upon a sixteen year playoff drought. In fact I think it would be quite difficult to fail in the NFL for that many years. Plenty of people have come and gone over the years, yet the results remain the same. It speaks volumes to issues that come from the top down imo. We can consider our lack of a franchise QB bad luck if we want to, but you can't make your own luck if you don't try hard enough. This has is just one of this franchises many failures over the years. Edited December 9, 2016 by DriveFor1Outta5

[Nihilarian]

Doug Marrone wanted to change the culture in Buffalo and he almost succeeded even with his poor choice for OC. That 9-7 record was the best since 2004 and just like in that year the Bills were one game away from the playoffs. It was that Marrone couldn't get anything done past the old guard still with the team!

 

To those fans that believe that Russ Brandon has had no involvement in any "football" decisions during his time in Buffalo need to remember that it was Brandon and Whaley that flew to NYC to hire Mike Pettine. Who hired Doug Marrone, a four-man team led by Brandon? Who gave Marrone that walk away clause in his contract? When Doug Whaley wanted to trade two first round draft picks to move up to draft Sammy Watkins, who told him to be bold? When the Pegula's were thinking of hiring Rex Ryan who told them to not let Rex leave the room.

 

Who is the one that advised these new owners that they had the needed NFL experience, football acumen to hire the next HC? Russ Brandon wanted to keep the status quo under the late owner.

 

Why is the team's president / marketing guy sitting in the teams cut meetings on the phone to free agent players? The team president doesn't have better things to do than something the coaching assistants or GM should be doing? Seems to me like this man has been heavily involved in every football decision.

 

 

Even if you fully believe that Brandon had no direct involvement in the football decisions even when he was the team's GM after Marv Levy retired and before Buddy Nix. (2007-2010) His presence as managing partner / team president is keeping this franchise from hiring a senior NFL "football" adviser like Bill Polian that the team desperatly needs.

 

"As Tim Graham reported, Marrone ripped the Bills to Polian as he walked out the door, telling the former Bills GM that people inside the building were trashing Polian because they felt threatened by his possible return."

 

Nothing in this franchise will change until the old guard gets swept out or moved over to the non-football side and the new owners decide that they are not qualified to hire the next HC or GM.This team needs to hire an experienced "winning" senior adviser to enable the owners to hire that team president of football operations and then stand back and allow him to do all the football hiring. This man will also be held accountable for the wins, losses.

[DriveFor1Outta5]

Doug Marrone wanted to change the culture in Buffalo and he almost succeeded even with his poor choice for OC. That 9-7 record was the best since 2004 and just like in that year the Bills were one game away from the playoffs. It was that Marrone couldn't get anything done past the old guard still with the team!

 

To those fans that believe that Russ Brandon has had no involvement in any "football" decisions during his time in Buffalo need to remember that it was Brandon and Whaley that flew to NYC to hire Mike Pettine. Who hired Doug Marrone, a four-man team led by Brandon? Who gave Marrone that walk away clause in his contract? When Doug Whaley wanted to trade two first round draft picks to move up to draft Sammy Watkins, who told him to be bold? When the Pegula's were thinking of hiring Rex Ryan who told them to not let Rex leave the room.

 

Who is the one that advised these new owners that they had the needed NFL experience, football acumen to hire the next HC? Russ Brandon wanted to keep the status quo under the late owner.

 

Why is the team's president / marketing guy sitting in the teams cut meetings on the phone to free agent players? The team president doesn't have better things to do than something the coaching assistants or GM should be doing? Seems to me like this man has been heavily involved in every football decision.

 

 

Even if you fully believe that Brandon had no direct involvement in the football decisions even when he was the team's GM after Marv Levy retired and before Buddy Nix. (2007-2010) His presence as managing partner / team president is keeping this franchise from hiring a senior NFL "football" adviser like Bill Polian that the team desperatly needs.

 

"As Tim Graham reported, Marrone ripped the Bills to Polian as he walked out the door, telling the former Bills GM that people inside the building were trashing Polian because they felt threatened by his possible return."

 

Nothing in this franchise will change until the old guard gets swept out or moved over to the non-football side and the new owners decide that they are not qualified to hire the next HC or GM.This team needs to hire an experienced "winning" senior adviser to enable the owners to hire that team president of football operations and then stand back and allow him to do all the football hiring. This man will also be held accountable for the wins, losses.

You just said it all. Yet some people still try to claim Brandon has no input on football decisions. That why many of us view him as part of the link to past failures. His fingerprints have been all over this team's failures. Brandon has no qualifications to be trusted in decisions like selecting a coach, or encouraging the Sammy trade. For example he knew that Sammy and Rex would be good for marketing purposes. Many football decisions around here are made with marketing in mind. I wonder why? Marketing and football success don't always mix well either.

[JohnC]

 

Right this minute we are still fortunate to be at a point early enough in Rex's tenure that we are not necessarily going to have to turn over the defensive roster to accommodate a more traditionally flexible coach. Guys like Lawson, Ragland, ZBrown, AWashington, Darby, etc should be able to easily transition back into more standard 4-3 roles, which would also benefit Kyle, Marcel and Gilmore imo..

I really hope the Bills send the Ryan Bros. Circus down the road to the next county before that is no longer the case.

Unless there is a total collapse the rest of the season I believe that Rex will be back next year. The sideline prancing coach realizes that this is his last coaching gig before he hits the studio. So every extra year that he stretches out being on the sidelines with his cool sunglasses is a bonus for him.

 

This was a foolish hire that certainly wasn't based on a successful stint when he was in NY. Overall, he had a losing record in NY and the longer he was with the team the steeper was the decline. Some salesmen are more adept at having the spotlight placed on them and deflecting attention away from the product. Kim Pegula didn't want the Bills to be a nondescript franchise so she mistakenly became enamored with the engaging applicant instead of focusing on the substance of the issue at hand.

 

It's very easy to demonize Rex. But even with his departure it doesn't mean that success will follow. In reality, it doesn't matter who the HC is if the caliber of quaterbacking remains the same. The results will continue to be mediocre until the person taking the snaps is of a higher quality. Analyzing what the main problem is not too difficult to do. Finding a credible solution to the qb conundrum is the challenge that this organization has been struggling with for two consecutive decades.

[pepsicat17]

dont post and then change tones w a disclaimer. post exactly the point and tone you mean and stick to it. We all know this isnt an exact science. also the common poster here cant read past the first few lines anyway before flaming you and calling u a troll.

Thank you for the unsolicited advice on message board posting. Without putting the original post with your selective quote you used you would not be able to tell that it was basically a tl;dr brief recap for those who didn't want to read the whole 1000 word post. I have posted and said exactly what I meant in the longer version and in subsequent posts. Hell, I started the topic at hand, but really, thanks for your advice, I will take it to heart.

 

 

Ok - after taking it to heart and a long meditation session on your advice I've decided to continue posting exactly how I want to and not take your suggestions. Some people need quick clarification on what I am trying to say and some dont want to read a longer sized post and I would still like them to get a small tasty morsel of my point. (No tounge in cheek in that one but maybe you should add a little to the conversation at hand instead of giving unsolicited advice on how to, of all things lol, post on a message board for a football team. If this was a neurosurgery forum maybe that would be more acceptable but honestly, I'm not even sure about that. All that said I would welcome your thoughts on the topic at hand in more then just one sentence. Have a nice day.)

[jms62]

Doug Marrone wanted to change the culture in Buffalo and he almost succeeded even with his poor choice for OC. That 9-7 record was the best since 2004 and just like in that year the Bills were one game away from the playoffs. It was that Marrone couldn't get anything done past the old guard still with the team!

 

To those fans that believe that Russ Brandon has had no involvement in any "football" decisions during his time in Buffalo need to remember that it was Brandon and Whaley that flew to NYC to hire Mike Pettine. Who hired Doug Marrone, a four-man team led by Brandon? Who gave Marrone that walk away clause in his contract? When Doug Whaley wanted to trade two first round draft picks to move up to draft Sammy Watkins, who told him to be bold? When the Pegula's were thinking of hiring Rex Ryan who told them to not let Rex leave the room.

 

Who is the one that advised these new owners that they had the needed NFL experience, football acumen to hire the next HC? Russ Brandon wanted to keep the status quo under the late owner.

 

Why is the team's president / marketing guy sitting in the teams cut meetings on the phone to free agent players? The team president doesn't have better things to do than something the coaching assistants or GM should be doing? Seems to me like this man has been heavily involved in every football decision.

 

 

Even if you fully believe that Brandon had no direct involvement in the football decisions even when he was the team's GM after Marv Levy retired and before Buddy Nix. (2007-2010) His presence as managing partner / team president is keeping this franchise from hiring a senior NFL "football" adviser like Bill Polian that the team desperatly needs.

 

"As Tim Graham reported, Marrone ripped the Bills to Polian as he walked out the door, telling the former Bills GM that people inside the building were trashing Polian because they felt threatened by his possible return."

 

Nothing in this franchise will change until the old guard gets swept out or moved over to the non-football side and the new owners decide that they are not qualified to hire the next HC or GM.This team needs to hire an experienced "winning" senior adviser to enable the owners to hire that team president of football operations and then stand back and allow him to do all the football hiring. This man will also be held accountable for the wins, losses.

 

Clean sweep.. Everyone out.

[JohnC]

Completely disagree.

 

BB won 11 games with Matt Cassel.

 

Jim Harbaugh went to the Super Bowl with Colin Kaepernick.

 

Andy Reid is doing great things in KC with Alex Smith.

 

QB makes a difference obviously, but so does good coaching.

The Bills have floundered before Rex arrived and they have floundered after his arrival. I'm not a Rex supporter and never have been. But with conviction I believe that until the qb position is upgraded the mediocre results will continue no matter who is the coach.

[jms62]

The Bills have floundered before Rex arrived and they have floundered after his arrival. I'm not a Rex supporter and never have been. But with conviction I believe that until the qb position is upgraded the mediocre results will continue no matter who is the coach.

 

We are top 10 in points scored yet blame it on the offense and QB....

[DriveFor1Outta5]

Completely disagree.

 

BB won 11 games with Matt Cassel.

 

Jim Harbaugh went to the Super Bowl with Colin Kaepernick.

 

Andy Reid is doing great things in KC with Alex Smith.

 

QB makes a difference obviously, but so does good coaching.

We aren't going to be a dynasty or consistent winner without a QB. With that said, sixteen straight years with no playoffs is a testament to failed coaching and questionable rosters. Countless scrub QBs have been in the playoffs since our drought began. We need a QB, but the problems over the years have ran deeper than just that. If Alex Smith was brought here I guarantee he would have been chased out of town by now. The guy isn't very good. He just doesn't turn the ball over, but he doesn't make many plays either. He has succeeded because he has a great head coach, and the Chiefs always have a soild roster. He wouldn't have that here, although many people on this board love to overrate our roster.

[26CornerBlitz]

We aren't going to be a dynasty or consistent winner without a QB. With that said, sixteen straight years with no playoffs is a testament to failed coaching and questionable rosters. Countless scrub QBs have been in the playoffs since our drought began. We need a QB, but the problems over the years have ran deeper than just that. If Alex Smith was brought here I guarantee he would have been chased out of town by now. The guy isn't very good. He just doesn't turn the ball over, but he doesn't make many plays either. He has succeeded because he has a great head coach, and the Chiefs always have a soild roster. He wouldn't have that here, although many people on this board love to overrate our roster.

 

So let's see. They don't have a QB and the roster is overrated. If that's true, they should be a much worse team than they have been in the last three seasons where they are currently 23-22. How is it that they aren't a bottom feeding team?

[DriveFor1Outta5]

 

So let's see. They don't have a QB and the roster is overrated. If that's true, they should be a much worse team than they have been in the last three seasons where they are currently 23-22. How is it that they aren't a bottom feeding team?

Because we have an average QB and an average roster. That makes us an average team. A lot of people seem to think we have a really good roster, and I beg to differ. Teams like the Chiefs with an average QB and a really good roster can win more games. PS I forgot to mention a good coach as well. Edited December 9, 2016 by DriveFor1Outta5