jms62 Posted December 6, 2016 Share Posted December 6, 2016 (edited) Dead money and cap hit. It was HORRIBLE without it his cap hit stays lower in the out years. Now he is essentiall on this team until 2019. They could have moved on from him easily after the season. Horrible restructure. How did he end the comments???? He could have stopped right there right? Did he nope keep grasping though LOL.... You are way smarter than that Bobby.. Keep repeating a throw away line though. Cuz it was the last one he uttered... Edited December 6, 2016 by jms62 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAJBobby Posted December 6, 2016 Share Posted December 6, 2016 LOL.... You are way smarter than that Bobby.. Keep repeating a throw away line though. Cuz it was the last one he uttered... He said it. How do you know the first isn't a deflecting line. You don't. Fact is Rex has said he was ok with it. That is the fact, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarleyNY Posted December 6, 2016 Share Posted December 6, 2016 Dead money and cap hit. It was HORRIBLE without it his cap hit stays lower in the out years. Now he is essentiall on this team until 2019. They could have moved on from him easily after the season. Horrible restructure. Again, not correct. The full cap hit would already be on the books without the restructure so the total cap hit from his release would be exactly the same whether he was restructured or not. The Bills just deferred $7.5M of it. The problem was the contract, not the restructure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAJBobby Posted December 6, 2016 Share Posted December 6, 2016 Again, not correct. The full cap hit would already be on the books without the restructure so the total cap hit from his release would be exactly the same whether he was restructured or not. The Bills just deferred $7.5M of it. The problem was the contract, not the restructure. Keep trying. Go look at spotrac what would Clays Cap hit and Dead money be next year without the restructuring cap 6.5 dead 6M Instead cap 9 dead 13.5 But hey yes contract was bad needed to be to get Clay away from MIA. The restructuring was worse Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarleyNY Posted December 6, 2016 Share Posted December 6, 2016 Keep trying. Go look at spotrac what would Clays Cap hit and Dead money be next year without the restructuring cap 6.5 dead 6M Instead cap 9 dead 13.5 But hey yes contract was bad needed to be to get Clay away from MIA. The restructuring was worse Yes, dead money is lower after the restructure because under the previous structure the entire $10M roster bonus hit would have been taken last season, instead of only $2.5M of it. That would, of course, mean the Bills would have $7.5M less in cap room right now. The net is the same against the cap. It might look better to you because you're just looking at the dead money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAJBobby Posted December 6, 2016 Share Posted December 6, 2016 (edited) Yes, dead money is lower after the restructure because under the previous structure the entire $10M roster bonus hit would have been taken last season, instead of only $2.5M of it. That would, of course, mean the Bills would have $7.5M less in cap room right now. The net is the same against the cap. It might look better to you because you're just looking at the dead money.Yes Next year is what I said. They could have moved on from him Next year. Instead married until 2019 because of the restructure. No it looks better because it is better. I could have walked away from the 1st deal with little damage AFTER this year. Now I can until AFTER 2019. Edited December 6, 2016 by MAJBobby Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Tuesday Posted December 6, 2016 Share Posted December 6, 2016 He said it. How do you know the first isn't a deflecting line. You don't. Fact is Rex has said he was ok with it. That is the fact, You've got to learn to let things go dude. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarleyNY Posted December 6, 2016 Share Posted December 6, 2016 Yes Next year is what I said. They could have moved on from him Next year. Instead married until 2019 because of the restructure. No it looks better because it is better. I could have walked away from the 1st deal with little damage AFTER this year. Now I can until AFTER 2019. I got pulled away before I could finish my post. The only difference between pre- and post-restructure is the distribution of the $10M bonus. Pre-restructure it would have all hit the cap this season. Post-restructure it hits the cap $2.5M in 2016, 2017, 2018 and 2019. If he's released or traded before then the remaining portion accelerates. So the result of the restructure is that the Bills currently have $7.5M more cap space than they would have if they hadn't restructured, which is exactly the additional amout of dead money releasing him would currently cost the team (versus before the restructure). The net result to the team's cap is $0. After next season (2018) the Bills will have an additional $5M in cap space due to the restructure and Clay's release will result in $5M more dead money than it would have without the restructure. Net difference in cap space between pre- and post-restructure if released will still be $0. After 2019 both figures will be $2.5M and net will still be $0. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAJBobby Posted December 6, 2016 Share Posted December 6, 2016 (edited) I got pulled away before I could finish my post. The only difference between pre- and post-restructure is the distribution of the $10M bonus. Pre-restructure it would have all hit the cap this season. Post-restructure it hits the cap $2.5M in 2016, 2017, 2018 and 2019. If he's released or traded before then the remaining portion accelerates. So the result of the restructure is that the Bills currently have $7.5M more cap space than they would have if they hadn't restructured, which is exactly the additional amout of dead money releasing him would currently cost the team (versus before the restructure). The net result to the team's cap is $0. After next season (2018) the Bills will have an additional $5M in cap space due to the restructure and Clay's release will result in $5M more dead money than it would have without the restructure. Net difference in cap space between pre- and post-restructure if released will still be $0. After 2019 both figures will be $2.5M and net will still be $0. Ok here Pre Restructure 2016 - Cap hit 13.5M Dead Money would have been Same. Here is what I am talking about..... 2017 - Pre - Restructure Cap 6.5M Dead Money 6.0M (meaning you could release him NEXT year at a 500K Savings. 2017 Post Cap 6M Dead Money 19.5M (meaning you cannot release him it costs too much. even with a Post June 1 designation) 2018 - Pre Cap 6.5, dead 4M (can release at a 2M savings) 2018 Post Cap 9M Dead 9M (again you would take same cap space if on roster as off, however at this point a Post June 1 designation gets you space but now that 9M dead spread over two years). So as I have said the restructure was ill advised, And Married you to Clay (aging and knee getting worse) for 2 years. Should have taken the brunt of the Bonus this year and not kick the can down the road with him. Specially with the chronic knee issue they knew was there Edited December 6, 2016 by MAJBobby Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADOLBILZ Posted December 6, 2016 Share Posted December 6, 2016 You've got to learn to let things go dude. Rex has brought a lot of this on himself with the permissive atmosphere and disliked defense he has brought to town........but it's easy to understand the exasperation he feels when this weekend in a crucial game he has sh*t like Percy Harvin faking out of the lineup and Clay just acting like he can come and go and let the team know when he f*cking pleases.........and Rex really can't say a damn thing about it. Meandering to "OK" is literally as stern as he can be publicly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Tuesday Posted December 6, 2016 Share Posted December 6, 2016 Rex has brought a lot of this on himself with the permissive atmosphere and disliked defense he has brought to town........but it's easy to understand the exasperation he feels when this weekend in a crucial game he has sh*t like Percy Harvin faking out of the lineup and Clay just acting like he can come and go and let the team know when he f*cking pleases.........and Rex really can't say a damn thing about it. Meandering to "OK" is literally as stern as he can be publicly. Of course. My question is, how does Terry feel seeing his $$ pissed away by a GM who is still "learning on the job"? I understand $800K isn't a lot in the grand scheme of things if you're a Pegula, but still, that money (for Harvin) was almost literally flushed down the toilet by Whaley and Overdorf. Add that to the horrible contracts given to Shady, Clay, and Dareus and at some point, if the lightbulb is on, Pegula is going to hold these people accountable, no? I know there are a lot of "there is only one answer to every question" people on this board (and in society, generally), because the human brain craves simplicity. But to me, it's a complicated confluence of factors that have led to the present state of suckitude. In no particular order: 1) Lack of a franchise QB 2) Bad/lazy coaching and schemes 3) A GM who is more of a "scout" than a "team architect" and who fails to understand how best to invest limited resources in today's NFL 4) Tom Brady being in the same division Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted December 6, 2016 Share Posted December 6, 2016 Ok here Pre Restructure 2016 - Cap hit 13.5M Dead Money would have been Same. Here is what I am talking about..... 2017 - Pre - Restructure Cap 6.5M Dead Money 6.0M (meaning you could release him NEXT year at a 500K Savings. 2017 Post Cap 6M Dead Money 19.5M (meaning you cannot release him it costs too much. even with a Post June 1 designation) 2018 - Pre Cap 6.5, dead 4M (can release at a 2M savings) 2018 Post Cap 9M Dead 9M (again you would take same cap space if on roster as off, however at this point a Post June 1 designation gets you space but now that 9M dead spread over two years). So as I have said the restructure was ill advised, And Married you to Clay (aging and knee getting worse) for 2 years. Should have taken the brunt of the Bonus this year and not kick the can down the road with him. Specially with the chronic knee issue they knew was there The flip side is we can carryover unused cap (i.e. The unspent savings). If you restructure but don't spend the money in the year it's really 6 of one half dozen of the other and just creates more flexibility/options. Where it becomes a squeeze is if you use that flexibility to stock the shelf this year at the expense of future. Long story short restructuring is pretty much always good for the team but what they do with that freedom can really get them into jams Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarleyNY Posted December 6, 2016 Share Posted December 6, 2016 (edited) Ok here Pre Restructure 2016 - Cap hit 13.5M Dead Money would have been Same. Here is what I am talking about..... 2017 - Pre - Restructure Cap 6.5M Dead Money 6.0M (meaning you could release him NEXT year at a 500K Savings. 2017 Post Cap 6M Dead Money 19.5M (meaning you cannot release him it costs too much. even with a Post June 1 designation) 2018 - Pre Cap 6.5, dead 4M (can release at a 2M savings) 2018 Post Cap 9M Dead 9M (again you would take same cap space if on roster as off, however at this point a Post June 1 designation gets you space but now that 9M dead spread over two years). So as I have said the restructure was ill advised, And Married you to Clay (aging and knee getting worse) for 2 years. Should have taken the brunt of the Bonus this year and not kick the can down the road with him. Specially with the chronic knee issue they knew was there Your numbers are wrong. Look at Spotrac's page. Read the comments below the numbers too. You are also missing the effect of paying out the $10M as a roster bonus. http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/buffalo-bills/charles-clay-7893/ The flip side is we can carryover unused cap (i.e. The unspent savings). If you restructure but don't spend the money in the year it's really 6 of one half dozen of the other and just creates more flexibility/options. Where it becomes a squeeze is if you use that flexibility to stock the shelf this year at the expense of future. Long story short restructuring is pretty much always good for the team but what they do with that freedom can really get them into jams NoSaint has it correct. Edited December 6, 2016 by BarleyNY Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAJBobby Posted December 6, 2016 Share Posted December 6, 2016 (edited) Your numbers are wrong. Look at Spotrac's page. Read the comments below the numbers too. You are also missing the effect of paying out the $10M as a roster bonus. http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/buffalo-bills/charles-clay-7893/ NoSaint has it correct. No I am not. Because if the Bonus us NOT restructured it would have been all paid out and accounted for THIS year. That is what I am saying. Kicking the can on a Bonus for a guy that had known Chronic knee issues is not a good idea, you tie yourself to him now for next 2 years Edited December 6, 2016 by MAJBobby Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted December 6, 2016 Share Posted December 6, 2016 The flip side is we can carryover unused cap (i.e. The unspent savings). If you restructure but don't spend the money in the year it's really 6 of one half dozen of the other and just creates more flexibility/options. Where it becomes a squeeze is if you use that flexibility to stock the shelf this year at the expense of future. Long story short restructuring is pretty much always good for the team but what they do with that freedom can really get them into jams Watkins is one of the most talented receivers in the league. The GM paid a hefty price to acquire him. The organization went out and paid a hefty contract to get a TE who can be instrumental in the passing game. The money spent on these potential play makers is basically wasted because we don't have a qb who not only under-utilizes them but also is incapable of maximizing their talents. The cascading effect on the offense of not having an accomplished passer is devastating from a variety of standpoints from talent and contract productivity. Not only is there a spillover effect on the offense but it also influences the effectiveness of the defense that is worn down from too many offensive three and outs. The qb issue hovers over this franchise like a dark cloud. Irrational organizational passivity on this issue is a virus that plagues this woebegone organization. Until this front office gets serious and acts more resolutely on this position/issue little else matters. Enough is enough! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted December 6, 2016 Share Posted December 6, 2016 Of course. My question is, how does Terry feel seeing his $$ pissed away by a GM who is still "learning on the job"? I understand $800K isn't a lot in the grand scheme of things if you're a Pegula, but still, that money (for Harvin) was almost literally flushed down the toilet by Whaley and Overdorf. Add that to the horrible contracts given to Shady, Clay, and Dareus and at some point, if the lightbulb is on, Pegula is going to hold these people accountable, no? I know there are a lot of "there is only one answer to every question" people on this board (and in society, generally), because the human brain craves simplicity. But to me, it's a complicated confluence of factors that have led to the present state of suckitude. In no particular order: 1) Lack of a franchise QB You realize that all of about 5 to 6 other NFL teams have this same issue right? 2) Bad/lazy coaching and schemes Whaley did not pick Rex 3) A GM who is more of a "scout" than a "team architect" and who fails to understand how best to invest limited resources in today's NFL We sure have a lot of low contract players playing for us this year and producing.....Lorax?.....Zach Brown? If Whaley does not find those players we would have been REALLY screwed without Lawson and Ragland 4) Tom Brady being in the same division Not sure what Whaley could have done about this at all...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herb62 Posted December 6, 2016 Share Posted December 6, 2016 When can we get out of his contract and for that matter McCoy's as well? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAJBobby Posted December 6, 2016 Share Posted December 6, 2016 When can we get out of his contract and for that matter McCoy's as well? Clays you can get out of it for a cap Savings after the 2019 season Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herb62 Posted December 6, 2016 Share Posted December 6, 2016 Clays you can get out of it for a cap Savings after the 2019 season Whoa, we have 2 more years of this guy another Wiley bad deal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAJBobby Posted December 6, 2016 Share Posted December 6, 2016 Whoa, we have 2 more years of this guy another Wiley bad deal Whaley Doesn't to contracts that is Overdorf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts