Taylor at 25 starts: how does he compare to the rest of NFL?

[MAJBobby]

EJ's mistakes have led to 21 points against in his last 3 starts. The difference between winning and losing two of those games. Taylor lining up behind the guard cost the Bills nothing. How you can compare the two is ridiculous.

 

You can blow off the low turnover stat, but the bottom line is that NO NFL coach is going to start a guy who costs his team games through reckless mistakes over a guy who doesn't.

Comment was in response to 1 Gif.

 

Not anything to do with the low turnover stat because our coach and QB are to much of ****** to actually throw a WR open or take a chance

Edited December 3, 2016 by MAJBobby

[Rico]

Comment was in response to 1 Gif.

 

Not anything to do with the low turnover stat because our coach and QB are to much of ****** to actually throw a WR open or take a chance

Here's another gif, just for you. My personal fav.

[MAJBobby]

Here's another gif, just for you. My personal fav.

Still waiting on Franchise Lining up behind a OG

[Buffalo_Stampede]

Why is it even a discussion? Tyrod is the starting QB next year. Draft and develop behind him. Tired of this discussion. Taylor doesn't get paid enough for it to be a discussion. His cap hits are fair moving forward.

[Dan]

I respectfully disagree. Obviously, the EJ Bills ship has sailed but the Bills' development of him was beyond pathetic. His qb coach and OC his rookie year was a guy who's resume was Syracuse. A guy who has overseen a giant regression in Blake Bortles.

Though their first season and 4 games into their second season, EJ and Derek Carr had very similar numbers. However, EJ got benched and Carr played through it.

Last offseason, when everyone wanted to ruin EJ out of town, he led the preseason in qb rating I believe. The only reason TT is as far as he is is because he got drafted by a real NFL franchise. If we drafted Taylor, he'd be on another team. We have been a joke at developing qbs. What we are doing with Cardale is what should have been done with EJ.

There are things I really like about TT. But I also believe there are a ton of double standards. We struggle to get to 150 yards passing in a league where Matt freakin' Barkley can put up 300. We go in awful offensive stretches for halves of football games and puts tremendous pressure on the defense to keep the games close. EJ and JP would be killed for these stretches.

I am very torn on TT. I believe he is a starting NFL qb but I just wonder what the upside is. He has become easy for good DCs to gameplan. His inability to throw over the middle is a huge concern. And while he may be the best running qb, it always puts you at a big risk for injury.

I hope TT delivers against a couple of good teams coming up. But right now, it seems like we have one of those maddeningly qb who don't lose you games, but rarely are the reason why you win them. I hate paying those guys a lot of money. Of course, the league is awful with qbs so you just get stuck.

I have to agree with a lot of this. I like Tyrod. I want him to be THE answer. And he's certainly the best starting QB the Bills have had in quite some time. However.... The offense goes into a shell far too often and has serious issues converting 3rd and long. That, IMO, is when the QB earns his money. He makes great plays with his legs and occasionally with his arm. But, all too often, he misses the throw on 3rd down. And I find myself wondering why we never hit receivers in stride?

 

So, I like him. But, I'm still waiting to see how the final games play out before I go all in. What I'm afraid of the most, is he's one of these guys that does just enough to look good at times and get your hopes up, but never really puts it all together to consistently put wins together.

 

EJ really showed his improvement with Roman the mastermind last season. Only 3 turnovers for 21 points in one game. Progress!

But, to be fair, EJ played a really good 2nd half, threw for 2TDs, and left the field with the lead. That loss was not all on him, it was the very definition of a team loss.

[Kirby Jackson]

 

I have to agree with a lot of this. I like Tyrod. I want him to be THE answer. And he's certainly the best starting QB the Bills have had in quite some time. However.... The offense goes into a shell far too often and has serious issues converting 3rd and long. That, IMO, is when the QB earns his money. He makes great plays with his legs and occasionally with his arm. But, all too often, he misses the throw on 3rd down. And I find myself wondering why we never hit receivers in stride?

 

So, I like him. But, I'm still waiting to see how the final games play out before I go all in. What I'm afraid of the most, is he's one of these guys that does just enough to look good at times and get your hopes up, but never really puts it all together to consistently put wins together.

 

But, to be fair, EJ played a really good 2nd half, threw for 2TDs, and left the field with the lead. That loss was not all on him, it was the very definition of a team loss.

Two things, you admit that this is the best QB that we have had in a long time. The conversation started as "why did EJ only get 14 games." The point was that the players had different level of success through 14 starts. It wasn't about "is Tyrod the ideal guy." Would you agree that through 14 starts Tyrod was a better player than EJ through 14 starts?

 

The last part I dispute too. Say that the defense gives up 50 points and gets a stop to trail 50-49. The offense turns it over on downs with a chance to win that loss is on the defense. If an offense scores 49 points you should win and the other side of the ball shares the lion share of the blame. By the same token of you hand a team 21 points with turnovers you are the biggest reason for the loss. You did the most to cost your team the game.

Edited December 3, 2016 by Kirby Jackson

[Fixxxer]

Here's another gif, just for you. My personal fav.

 

Do you have a gif of Shady's fumble in the red zone or the BS flag on Robey?

[C.Biscuit97]

Two things, you admit that this is the best QB that we have had in a long time. The conversation started as "why did EJ only get 14 games." The point was that the players had different level of success through 14 starts. It wasn't about "is Tyrod the ideal guy." Would you agree that through 14 starts Tyrod was a better player than EJ through 14 starts?

 

The last part I dispute too. Say that the defense gives up 50 points and gets a stop to trail 50-49. The offense turns it over on downs with a chance to win that loss is on the defense. If an offense scores 49 points you should win and the other side of the ball shares the lion share of the blame. By the same token of you hand a team 21 points with turnovers you are the biggest reason for the loss. You did the most to cost your team the game.

It's not an apples to apples comparison of EJ and Tyrod's 14 starts. Tyrod sat behind a SB winning qb on one of the best franchises in the NFL. EJ was forced to play on a team led by the Syracuse coaching staff for a franchise that sadly is one of the worst in the NFL.

 

One of the reasons I am tough on Taylor is he isn't a rookie. There are a lot more similarities to him and EJ than some folks want to admit.

[Rico]

 

Do you have a gif of Shady's fumble in the red zone or the BS flag on Robey?

No, I only kept the clown show ones.

[Kirby Jackson]

It's not an apples to apples comparison of EJ and Tyrod's 14 starts. Tyrod sat behind a SB winning qb on one of the best franchises in the NFL. EJ was forced to play on a team led by the Syracuse coaching staff for a franchise that sadly is one of the worst in the NFL.

 

One of the reasons I am tough on Taylor is he isn't a rookie. There are a lot more similarities to him and EJ than some folks want to admit.

Not apples to apples at all and I agree. EJ was put in a situation like Goff has now as opposed to a situation like Wentz has. Tyrod had a much better chance to succeed with the way he was developed. There's no denying that.

 

The facts are the facts though and if you put the 1st 14 starts of each guy next to each other it will show that. I don't feel like doing it but Tyrod made more plays, less mistakes and had a better record. While it might not have been fair, it isn't that complicated as to why why one guy is still starting.

 

They are also only about 7 months apart in terms of age. In addition both guys had a lot of starts in college. EJ played under Jimbo Fisher who does a good job of preparing QBs (see Winston, Jameis). It's not like EJ was new to the position when he got to the Bills. He had played a lot and under a good staff. The questions marks that he hadn't coming in are the same that he has today.

[MDH]

It's not an apples to apples comparison of EJ and Tyrod's 14 starts. Tyrod sat behind a SB winning qb on one of the best franchises in the NFL. EJ was forced to play on a team led by the Syracuse coaching staff for a franchise that sadly is one of the worst in the NFL.

One of the reasons I am tough on Taylor is he isn't a rookie. There are a lot more similarities to him and EJ than some folks want to admit.

Forget who was calling the plays. The real issue here is that Tyrod sat for 4 years before a single start. How many games did EJ sit before he was thrown in there? Who knows if EJ would have (or will) ever turn into a quality starter but he had almost zero chance of doing so given how much of a project he was and that he was thrown to the wolves before he was ever ready.

 

Its also funny to me how people like to throw those horrendous Jags plays up as proof that he'll never be good. As if those three plays define him more than the rest of the game...one in which the team had the lead when the offense last stepped off the field. Had the defense not folded at the end everybody would remember that game as one where EJ showed the fortitude to put the 2nd quarter blunders behind him and help lead his team to victory in spite of them.

 

Not folding to adversity is an important part of the mental make ip of a QB. If EJ ever showed me anything it was that the moment rarely seemed to big for him. He was at his best at the end of halves and games, times when he stopped trying to process the game and just played ball. I was always hoping to see EJ get to a point where the game slowed down for him because if he ever got there he would have been pretty good.

 

That said, I have no idea if he ever would have gotten there. But I could have told you for certain he wouldnt get there in 14 games, there arent many QBs in the history of the NFL who have been able to do that.

[MAJBobby]

What's it matter

 

Tyrod > EJ big deal neither good enough to be a long term answer

[Wayne Cubed]

Forget who was calling the plays. The real issue here is that Tyrod sat for 4 years before a single start. How many games did EJ sit before he was thrown in there? Who knows if EJ would have (or will) ever turn into a quality starter but he had almost zero chance of doing so given how much of a project he was and that he was thrown to the wolves before he was ever ready.

 

Its also funny to me how people like to throw those horrendous Jags plays up as proof that he'll never be good. As if those three plays define him more than the rest of the game...one in which the team had the lead when the offense last stepped off the field. Had the defense not folded at the end everybody would remember that game as one where EJ showed the fortitude to put the 2nd quarter blunders behind him and help lead his team to victory in spite of them.

 

Not folding to adversity is an important part of the mental make ip of a QB. If EJ ever showed me anything it was that the moment rarely seemed to big for him. He was at his best at the end of halves and games, times when he stopped trying to process the game and just played ball. I was always hoping to see EJ get to a point where the game slowed down for him because if he ever got there he would have been pretty good.

 

That said, I have no idea if he ever would have gotten there. But I could have told you for certain he wouldnt get there in 14 games, there arent many QBs in the history of the NFL who have been able to do that.

First, you must not be remembering the game correctly because it was the defense who gave the Bills the lead. Not EJ and the offense. So no, when EJ last put points on the board, with the long touchdown to Easley, he did not leave the field with the lead.

 

Second, EJ had a chance to drive down the field to win or at least tie the game, when the moment was big, did nothing. The game ended on an incomplete short dump off on 4th and 2. He wasn't even close to being at his best.

[MAJBobby]

First, you must not be remembering the game correctly because it was the defense who gave the Bills the lead. Not EJ and the offense. So no, when EJ last put points on the board, with the long touchdown to Easley, he did not leave the field with the lead.

 

Second, EJ had a chance to drive down the field to win or at least tie the game, when the moment was big, did nothing. The game ended on an incomplete short dump off on 4th and 2. He wasn't even close to being at his best.

So similar to some games with our current QB

[Rico]

First, you must not be remembering the game correctly because it was the defense who gave the Bills the lead. Not EJ and the offense. So no, when EJ last put points on the board, with the long touchdown to Easley, he did not leave the field with the lead.

 

Second, EJ had a chance to drive down the field to win or at least tie the game, when the moment was big, did nothing. The game ended on an incomplete short dump off on 4th and 2. He wasn't even close to being at his best.

Exactly.

 

I will give him some props for putting up some points in the 2nd half against the vaunted Jax prevent defense, but that bumbling last drive of the game was vintage EJ.

[MDH]

First, you must not be remembering the game correctly because it was the defense who gave the Bills the lead. Not EJ and the offense. So no, when EJ last put points on the board, with the long touchdown to Easley, he did not leave the field with the lead.

Second, EJ had a chance to drive down the field to win or at least tie the game, when the moment was big, did nothing. The game ended on an incomplete short dump off on 4th and 2. He wasn't even close to being at his best.

Fair enough, I did forget that there was time on the clock at the very end.

[Dan]

Two things, you admit that this is the best QB that we have had in a long time. The conversation started as "why did EJ only get 14 games." The point was that the players had different level of success through 14 starts. It wasn't about "is Tyrod the ideal guy." Would you agree that through 14 starts Tyrod was a better player than EJ through 14 starts?

 

The last part I dispute too. Say that the defense gives up 50 points and gets a stop to trail 50-49. The offense turns it over on downs with a chance to win that loss is on the defense. If an offense scores 49 points you should win and the other side of the ball shares the lion share of the blame. By the same token of you hand a team 21 points with turnovers you are the biggest reason for the loss. You did the most to cost your team the game.

To your first point, yes I would agree. When Tyrod won the starting job last year, it was obvious. He was a better QB and looked far more poised and prepared to lead the team. So, I wasn't then nor am I now, pining for EJ or some other QB. But, I will say, Tyrod's level of play seems to have leveled off this year when I was hoping he would continue to improve.

 

Lots of really good QBs have bad halves, even bad games. But, the good ones turn it around and keep fighting. I give EJ a lot of credit for doing just that. Yes, he deserves a lot of blame for losing that game. But, the defense deserves a lot, as well. I know it's gotta be a black and white world, but can't we live in a world where even the worst players, like EJ, are capable of doing something right? I'm not saying EJ should get a shot here, I'm just suggesting that he's not the complete trainwreck so many people say he is.

Edited December 4, 2016 by Dan

[BringBackOrton]

 

I have to agree with a lot of this. I like Tyrod. I want him to be THE answer. And he's certainly the best starting QB the Bills have had in quite some time. However.... The offense goes into a shell far too often and has serious issues converting 3rd and long. That, IMO, is when the QB earns his money. He makes great plays with his legs and occasionally with his arm. But, all too often, he misses the throw on 3rd down. And I find myself wondering why we never hit receivers in stride?

 

So, I like him. But, I'm still waiting to see how the final games play out before I go all in. What I'm afraid of the most, is he's one of these guys that does just enough to look good at times and get your hopes up, but never really puts it all together to consistently put wins together.

 

But, to be fair, EJ played a really good 2nd half, threw for 2TDs, and left the field with the lead. That loss was not all on him, it was the very definition of a team loss.

Haha no, when your QB gives away 21 and your defense allows 13 points and scores 7, it's the definition of a QB loss.

[jms62]

Why was EJ only given 14 starts, then?

 

This is a serious question.

 

I get killed on this site because of how critical I am of Tyrod Taylor, yet he's had nearly twice the starts that EJ had and the Bills haven't gotten any better - even though the defense and running game have been better for Taylor's starts and the schedule has been much easier.

Because he showed that he isnt an NFL quality QB to deserve more than 14 starts. I missed the memo that if you show that you suck you are entitled to 25 starts.

[DriveFor1Outta5]

Matt Barkley, tolisen, McNown, Whitehurst, And every other terrible qb who has started this year.

 

Hell, look at how Alex Smith's career began. 1 to to 11 ints. As much as some fans try to say it, EJ isn't nearly as bad as he was made out to be.

 

Sadly, ROMAN and the rest of the staff was far superior to Marrone's morons. Roman did a good job last year and was a scapegoat this year.

EJ's awful, he's never even been Alex Smith. He's just as bad as those other guys you listed. They didn't really "compete" for starting jobs though. They played this year because every one else ahead of them on the depth chart went down. EJ will only ever be a starter under those same circumstances. He will never go into camp competing for a starting job.

Because he showed that he isnt an NFL quality QB to deserve more than 14 starts. I missed the memo that if you show that you suck you are entitled to 25 starts.

He also only got 14 starts because Marrone was his coach. Maybe Rex wouldn't have pulled him. Marrone had a veteran guy in Orton who he liked and trusted. We don't have a guy like Orton on the roster right now. Under a different coach with a veteran QB on the bench maybe Tyrod would have gotten pulled this year. Who knows? That being said after his 14 starts I had seen enough. I've also seen enough of TT. There just isn't a better option right now. Edited December 4, 2016 by DriveFor1Outta5