Jim Schwartz took Eagles 30th ranked defense to top 5

[BringBackOrton]

 

That it was funny then and it's still funny now.

 

And also that the love fest for Schwartz now that he's gone is in stark contrast to the wide-9-hand-wringing that pervaded this place shortly after his hire. the type of hand-wringing that inspired long, contentious threads entitled "Jim Schwartz is a dinosaur." My contribution to that thread is the image above (hilarious). I just came across it looking for a different hosted image, it's still hilarious, and now it's relevant (in an ironic way) to this thread.

 

Sorry if all that was too advanced for you. Happy to clarify whenever you need help.

The love-fest started when he put out the #4 defense in the league that carried an anemic offense to 9 wins. Not when he left, as you attempt to characterize it.

 

IIRC, the concerns about Schwartz were mostly predicated on running a bland, relatively blitzless 4-3 scheme similar to Wannstedt, with no true DE to play opposite of Mario (this was when Jerry Hughes was used only situationaly the year before, lots of ? about his ability to play the run and set edges). Luckily, his scheme actually fit our personnel like a glove (Career years for close for all of our D-line), we got lucky with a few picks contributing a lot early (Preston Brown, Sammy), Leodis McKelvin had his best year of his career (in large part to Donnie Henderson), and we had very few defensive "needs," with Schwartz.

 

I wouldn't call not expecting all that "fickle," especially not 1 year removed from one of the worst defenses in Bills history that was schematically similar.

Edited November 17, 2016 by jmc12290

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

lol, just found this:

 

 

created when the topic of conversation in early 2014, shortly after he was hired, was how much of a "dinosaur" Jim Schwartz is.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CTdUlDtUkAAtcf5.jpg

 

So many options when looking up clown and Rex.

Edited November 18, 2016 by Over 28 years of fanhood

[The Big Cat]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CTdUlDtUkAAtcf5.jpg

 

So many options when looking up clown and Rex.

At least his wig and balloons are in team colors. :-D

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

At least his wig and balloons are in team colors. :-D

Good point - Schwartz, if nothing else, deserves better than a Viking colored dinosaur

[vincec]

Food for thought: Now that the team is "all in" and "fully pregnant", has brought in Rex cronies like his brother and Ed Reed and spent its top three draft picks on defense, the defense is ... the same as last years. They have allowed 22.6 ppg (22.4 in 2015) and 351.1 ypg (356.4 in 2015).

 

Awesome.

Edited November 18, 2016 by vincec

[boyst]

That it was funny then and it's still funny now.

 

And also that the love fest for Schwartz now that he's gone is in stark contrast to the wide-9-hand-wringing that pervaded this place shortly after his hire. the type of hand-wringing that inspired long, contentious threads entitled "Jim Schwartz is a dinosaur." My contribution to that thread is the image above (hilarious). I just came across it looking for a different hosted image, it's still hilarious, and now it's relevant (in an ironic way) to this thread.

 

Sorry if all that was too advanced for you. Happy to clarify whenever you need help.

I was slobbering myself drooling. That's when I'd post those 100,000 word posts breaking down plays, schemes, players, positions.

[QCity]

lol, just found this:

 

 

created when the topic of conversation in early 2014, shortly after he was hired, was how much of a "dinosaur" Jim Schwartz is.

 

 

Whoever made that was wrong 2 years ago and is still wrong now.

 

Dead wrong.

[Nihilarian]

 

 

Whoever made that was wrong 2 years ago and is still wrong now.

 

Dead wrong.

Gee, I wonder who could have photoshopped human face into an animal or creature? Hrmmm...

 

Seems like that same sort of fellow might defend Dick Jauron as the Bills head coach post after post all the way up until he was fired.

[Thurmal34]

With the exact same personnel? If not, then your argument is disingenuous at best and specious at worst.

 

Or is this the Todd Bowles thread 2.0? Can we, for once, attach some perspective to our posts?

 

Stop this madness.

[Buffalo Barbarian]

 

Using this year's logic, that loss was solely on Corey Graham getting burned.

 

BURN HIM AT THE STAKE AND CUT OFF HIS DREADS!!!!

 

not a fan of the long hair hoping styles swing back the other way and go buzz cuts

lol, just found this:

 

 

created when the topic of conversation in early 2014, shortly after he was hired, was how much of a "dinosaur" Jim Schwartz is.

 

I think that dino can stop all offesnes

[Sisyphean Bills]

The love-fest started when he put out the #4 defense in the league that carried an anemic offense to 9 wins. Not when he left, as you attempt to characterize it.

 

IIRC, the concerns about Schwartz were mostly predicated on running a bland, relatively blitzless 4-3 scheme similar to Wannstedt, with no true DE to play opposite of Mario (this was when Jerry Hughes was used only situationaly the year before, lots of ? about his ability to play the run and set edges). Luckily, his scheme actually fit our personnel like a glove (Career years for close for all of our D-line), we got lucky with a few picks contributing a lot early (Preston Brown, Sammy), Leodis McKelvin had his best year of his career (in large part to Donnie Henderson), and we had very few defensive "needs," with Schwartz.

 

I wouldn't call not expecting all that "fickle," especially not 1 year removed from one of the worst defenses in Bills history that was schematically similar.

 

Good point. Schwartz did inherit the right pieces, but he was able to turn that unit around as well. He really did benefit from the second rebuild under Chan Gailey when he went all-in with Wannstedt after the disaster of the 3-4 switch Buddy and Edwards failed to deliver. (I still wonder what would've happened if Gailey had went all-in with getting this team a stud QB, but, well, Chan is still tinkering with Fitzpicks ... so that was never in the cards. <sigh>)

 

Rex inherited a defensive squad that didn't really fit his system, and it hasn't been so great.

 

It's virtually a tradition for the Bills to dismantle and rebuild the defense with each new coaching staff. You get numb to it. Tequila helps.

[hondo in seattle]

If you look at their historical rankings, both Rex and Schwartz have had good and bad years.

 

When they have the players that fit their scheme, they get into the top ten. When they don't have the right players, the bottom ten is more likely.

 

Their overall resumes are dramatically different. Lately, however, Schwartz has been out-performing Rex. Maybe he has a better understanding of how to stop today's offenses? I'm not yet convinced.

[HT02]

I think you guys are way overrating Jim Schwartz; the 2014 Bills defense was good not great. Stats and rankings are very misleading in the NFL. I agree that Rex's defensive in Buffalo has not been impressive but I I have seen improvement since last year but injuries and stupidity (Darius) have hurt the team.

 

The issue still goes back to the same one as its been since Philips benched Flutie, the Bills need to find a QB. That should be the top if not the only priority,

[Nihilarian]

I think you guys are way overrating Jim Schwartz; the 2014 Bills defense was good not great. Stats and rankings are very misleading in the NFL. I agree that Rex's defensive in Buffalo has not been impressive but I I have seen improvement since last year but injuries and stupidity (Darius) have hurt the team.

 

The issue still goes back to the same one as its been since Philips benched Flutie, the Bills need to find a QB. That should be the top if not the only priority,

What I don't get is why so many Bills fans keep saying that defense was overrated. That defense was #4 overall in yards and points but they were also the #1 team in the NFL in passing TD's allowed, #3 in passing yards allowed. This was with Gilmore and McKelvin at CB.

 

Look at some of the QB's he defeated that season! Cutler, Tannehill, Stafford, Bridgewater, Vick, Geno 2x, Hoyer / Manziel, Aaron Rodgers in his MVP season who went 17 of 42 for 185 yards and 2 INTs! Against Manning in Denver, the Bills didn't win but held Peyton to 14 of 20 for 173 yards, 2 INT's and that year Manning threw for 4827 yards, 39 TD's!

 

Then, in that last game against the Patriots Belichick benched Brady more because he didn't want him hurt for the playoffs and because he was stinking it up against Schwartz's defense! Brady had 48% of the Patriots snaps and he played in the entire first half.

 

Brady's stats 8 of 16 for 80 yards! with a rate of 64.6. When was the last time you saw Tom Brady go 8 for 16 for 80 yards and no TD's! To put that in perspective Brady threw for 27 of 37 for 361, 4 TD's in that first game. I think Buffalo wins that game if Brady played the entire game and it had some meaning for both teams.

 

Sure, that 2014 defense had let downs. That Raiders game in which Derek Carr had a 3rd down and 22 and he completes a 51-yard pass to Andre Holmes! Pure luck! He beat Corey Coleman. If anything let down that 2014 team is was Marrone's-Hackett's offense with virtually no run game the entire year with Orton at QB. In that Raiders game, the Bills ran 13 times for 13 yards and Spiller was tackled behind the LoS every time he touched the ball. How pathetic is that!

 

 

Now, go take a look at that 2016 Eagle defense and count how many all pro's on it compared to the 2016 Buffalo Bills. It's clear that Jim Schwartz is doing more with less talent. While in Buffalo he not only got the best out of every defender, he also was able to get some to overachieve.

Edited November 18, 2016 by Nihilarian

[aristocrat]

What I don't get is why so many Bills fans keep saying that defense was overrated. That defense was #4 overall in yards and points but they were also the #1 team in the NFL in passing TD's allowed, #3 in passing yards allowed. This was with Gilmore and McKelvin at CB.

 

Look at some of the QB's he defeated that season! Cutler, Tannehill, Stafford, Bridgewater, Vick, Geno 2x, Hoyer / Manziel, Aaron Rodgers in his MVP season who went 17 of 42 for 185 yards and 2 INTs! Against Manning in Denver, the Bills didn't win but held Peyton to 14 of 20 for 173 yards, 2 INT's and that year Manning threw for 4827 yards, 39 TD's!

 

Then, in that last game against the Patriots Belichick benched Brady more because he didn't want him hurt for the playoffs and because he was stinking it up against Schwartz's defense! Brady had 48% of the Patriots snaps and he played in the entire first half.

 

Brady's stats 8 of 16 for 80 yards! with a rate of 64.6. When was the last time you saw Tom Brady go 8 for 16 for 80 yards and no TD's! To put that in perspective Brady threw for 27 of 37 for 361, 4 TD's in that first game. I think Buffalo wins that game if Brady played the entire game and it had some meaning for both teams.

 

Sure, that 2014 defense had let downs. That Raiders game in which Derek Carr had a 3rd down and 22 and he completes a 51-yard pass to Andre Holmes! Pure luck! He beat Corey Coleman. If anything let down that 2014 team is was Marrone's-Hackett's offense with virtually no run game the entire year with Orton at QB. In that Raiders game, the Bills ran 13 times for 13 yards and Spiller was tackled behind the LoS every time he touched the ball. How pathetic is that!

 

 

Now, go take a look at that 2016 Eagle defense and count how many all pro's on it compared to the 2016 Buffalo Bills. It's clear that Jim Schwartz is doing more with less talent. While in Buffalo he not only got the best out of every defender, he also was able to get some to overachieve.

 

sir, facts are not allowed in this thread. please have only hot takes.

 

but seriously if we get a repeat of that defense last year we are in the playoffs no problem.

[Talley56]

I think you guys are way overrating Jim Schwartz; the 2014 Bills defense was good not great. Stats and rankings are very misleading in the NFL. I agree that Rex's defensive in Buffalo has not been impressive but I I have seen improvement since last year but injuries and stupidity (Darius) have hurt the team.

 

The issue still goes back to the same one as its been since Philips benched Flutie, the Bills need to find a QB. That should be the top if not the only priority,

Have to disagree. The 2014 defense was great. A defense that shuts down Aaron Rodgers when he is having a great year even by his standards and gets you to 9 wins (okay, would have been 8 if Brady played the last game) with a horribly anemic offense led by a QB that was ready to retire before the year even ended is a great defense. The Oakland game is really the only bad game I can think of from that season.

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

I call bull ****.

 

It was a very good defense that punished the !@#$ out of opposing offenses.

 

Not only were they good but they played fast and hit hard. People seem to forget how many players they injured that year from unbelievably hard hits.

 

Safeties for that team: Searcy and A-williams. Not on the team and hurt for most of past 2 seasons. Both pretty solid players... much better than meeks and duke. Fairly steep drop off there.

 

 

Dareus has played 1 game for us this year - that year he played 15 for Schwartz. KW and MW were both 2 years younger and playing in a scheme that fit them. Oh and they missed a single game between the pair.

 

They were good. Only gave up 30 points 1 time all year to NE. They were also oddly healthy for a bills team that never seems to be healthy.

 

Oh and the REAL REASON we don't still have him as a coach? The coach we had quit his job... so don't blame DW, Rex, or Pegula. Blame Marrone.

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

The reason they don't have him as coach is because Pegula or whoever wanted Rex.

 

Which would never of happened if Marrone didn't quit...

[section122]

If you look at their historical rankings, both Rex and Schwartz have had good and bad years.

 

When they have the players that fit their scheme, they get into the top ten. When they don't have the right players, the bottom ten is more likely.

 

Their overall resumes are dramatically different. Lately, however, Schwartz has been out-performing Rex. Maybe he has a better understanding of how to stop today's offenses? I'm not yet convinced.

 

Maybe he gets to put his sole focus on being the DC and doesn't have to worry about being the HC like Rex does.

 

 

Now, go take a look at that 2016 Eagle defense and count how many all pro's on it compared to the 2016 Buffalo Bills. It's clear that Jim Schwartz is doing more with less talent. While in Buffalo he not only got the best out of every defender, he also was able to get some to overachieve.

 

All pros on the Eagles from last year - Fletcher Cox and Connor Barwin

 

All pros on the Bills from any point in their career - none

 

Pro-Bowlers on current Eagles Defense - Fletcher Cox, Connor Barwin, Malcolm Jenkins

 

Pro-Bowlers on current Bills Defense - Kyle Williams, Marcel Dareus (can we count him this year?)

 

 

Might want to rethink the sentence after the bolded. The Eagles do not have less talent than the Bills on the defensive side of the ball. If anything they are more talented and haven't dealt with an injury to their starting S or all pro DT.

Might want to rethink the sentence after the bolded.

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

They couldn't have retained Schwartz because Marrone quit?

 

They choose Rex no?

 

If Marrone doesn't quit do they still have Schwartz??