MAJBobby Posted November 17, 2016 Share Posted November 17, 2016 weve had a few people mention him restructuring and ill echo the question again -- what do you expect him to give back, and at a time when he is uncuttable what would be his motivation to give something back? He won't with his contract he is on this team through the 2018 season. Not sure why the Bills would want to do anything with his contract. His hits are not the worst Just a ton of dead money if off team before the 2018 season ends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted November 17, 2016 Share Posted November 17, 2016 He won't with his contract he is on this team through the 2018 season. Not sure why the Bills would want to do anything with his contract. His hits are not the worst Just a ton of dead money if off team before the 2018 season ends. exactly - and he would have no reason in the world to give away the guaranteed dollars unless you offered him up a pay raise or some great incentive. otherwise, he knows you are stuck with him and paying him in full pretty much no matter what, so of course hes good keeping things as is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
May Day 10 Posted November 17, 2016 Share Posted November 17, 2016 If I'm the owner of this team and care about the W-L total, I want my best players on the field. And when the front office types decide to re-sign a player to the largest contract in team history, I'd want that guy playing. Injuries are one thing, but a player who's physically not taking care of himself, drawing suspensions, and not contributing is a waste of my money. And if that guy isn't playing for being out of shape or a suspension, what's protecting me the owner from wasting money? That's where you hope your principal football decision makers are looking out for me. But in this case, they weren't. I doubt Belichick would invest that kind of money in a player who, despite immense talent, doesn't have the drive to continue improving. He'd pull a Jamie Collins and unload him for something, avoid spending that cash on a player, and already have a replacement in the pipeline who's hungrier and at a lower cost. But this is the Bills and they tend to do their own thing. It's part of the reason why, in 3+ seasons, Doug Whaley's record for teams he's been GM is a mediocre 27-30. This is correct. Team building is 1 part talent evaluation, 1 part psychiatric evaluation. You cannot make that kind of commitment to a player unless you KNOW he has the drive. Will he continue to strive for glory and for the team when guaranteed unimaginable riches? It is very easy for a guy to go into the tank once paid. Especially present day with how much information on the severity of long term physical damage is, and the perception that owners are taking advantage of the players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gugny Posted November 17, 2016 Share Posted November 17, 2016 If I'm the owner of this team and care about the W-L total, I want my best players on the field. And when the front office types decide to re-sign a player to the largest contract in team history, I'd want that guy playing. Injuries are one thing, but a player who's physically not taking care of himself, drawing suspensions, and not contributing is a waste of my money. And if that guy isn't playing for being out of shape or a suspension, what's protecting me the owner from wasting money? That's where you hope your principal football decision makers are looking out for me. But in this case, they weren't. I doubt Belichick would invest that kind of money in a player who, despite immense talent, doesn't have the drive to continue improving. He'd pull a Jamie Collins and unload him for something, avoid spending that cash on a player, and already have a replacement in the pipeline who's hungrier and at a lower cost. But this is the Bills and they tend to do their own thing. It's part of the reason why, in 3+ seasons, Doug Whaley's record for teams he's been GM is a mediocre 27-30. At the risk of going off-topic, I think it's relevant to bring up Sammy Watkins after this post. Watkins has "discomfort." Watkins has been told by doctors that, if he is to play on his "injured" foot, that it would NOT get worse. So we've got our most talented offensive player sitting, getting paid, not playing ... because he has discomfort. That's some bull ****, if you ask me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jobot Posted November 17, 2016 Share Posted November 17, 2016 This would be an embarrassing move regardless if it's correct... The Bills made their bed with signing him to the massive contract... time to sleep in it and figure out how to make it work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gugny Posted November 17, 2016 Share Posted November 17, 2016 Yea but don't worry. Him and Dareus will be back as soon as we are eliminated from the playoffs for a heroic run to 8-8 and Rexs return for 2017! I am giddy with anticipation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Big Cat Posted November 17, 2016 Share Posted November 17, 2016 exactly - and he would have no reason in the world to give away the guaranteed dollars unless you offered him up a pay raise or some great incentive. otherwise, he knows you are stuck with him and paying him in full pretty much no matter what, so of course hes good keeping things as is. out of good faith? because he wants to do the right thing? stranger things have happened, you know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAJBobby Posted November 17, 2016 Share Posted November 17, 2016 At the risk of going off-topic, I think it's relevant to bring up Sammy Watkins after this post. Watkins has "discomfort." Watkins has been told by doctors that, if he is to play on his "injured" foot, that it would NOT get worse. So we've got our most talented offensive player sitting, getting paid, not playing ... because he has discomfort. That's some bull ****, if you ask me. So like many other WRs that have had the same injury out of good faith? because he wants to do the right thing? stranger things have happened, you know. Find me 1 player in the NFL that gave away guaranteed money. Doesn't happen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted November 17, 2016 Share Posted November 17, 2016 out of good faith? because he wants to do the right thing? stranger things have happened, you know. it amazes me how much time you spend reading about the league and can type that with straight face. players lower salaries when the alternative is getting cut, or to increase guaranteed dollars. players do not say "oh, i know last year kind of sucked for the team so i am going to self-void some of my guarantees to help the GM feel good about humanity" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Big Cat Posted November 17, 2016 Share Posted November 17, 2016 it amazes me how much time you spend reading about the league and can type that with straight face. players lower salaries when the alternative is getting cut, or to increase guaranteed dollars. players do not say "oh, i know last year kind of sucked for the team so i am going to self-void some of my guarantees to help the GM feel good about humanity" this goes beyond performance, though, and MD is not the average bear. I'm not saying it will happen. I'm saying it's not impossible. It isn't. He was suspended for making poor choices. If he feels he compounded that mistake by not being physically ready to return, there could be some guilt there. Probability <5% Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Frankish Reich Posted November 17, 2016 Share Posted November 17, 2016 Not at all. They paid market value for him. They could've used that money to pay market value for someone else. Like who exactly? It's not as if the Bills' depth chart is fully stocked at all other positions. Better still, they could've franchise tagged him. In fact, I can't understand why the wouldn't. He's already getting paid way more than the franchise tag amount for this year alone, and with the 1-year contract he would've had the incentive to perform (and to lay off the weed). Because Franchised Players never hold out or become problems of their own? And with that tag available, we were able to retain our LT. As you say, it's not as if we're so stocked that we can afford to let yet another LT get away. Reminds me of the completely unnecessary McCoy extension, trying to buy a player's goodwill by offering more than you need to. And what has that bought them with Dareus? (At least McCoy is still putting forth full effort) Unnecessary?!? McCoy had no guaranteed money left over the remaining 3 years of his contract. It was a definite that he was going to hold out without a restructure/extension. And he got paid what he is worth. Weak post, my man. If you're going to second-guess in hindsight, get the surrounding facts and context straight. I'm not happy with Dareus either, and find the lack of recourse in his contract troubling. But re-signing him was definitely the right move at the time. You mean there's literally NO ONE else the Bills could have signed for that Dareus money? I hated the contract at the time, so this is no hindsight is 20-20 thing. It's not my job to decide where to apply Pegula's money. That's Whaley's job last I checked. As for the chance that Dareus would've been a slacker to show his displeasure with being franchise tagged: that is the definition of a risk worth taking. Crippling the cap for about 4 years with a horrible Dareus contract, not so much. And I know people love McCoy etc, etc, but having whiffed on the playoffs during his max value year (likely soon to be plural) and being stuck with his decline years in the future, how can anyone other than Whaley's family say events have proven me wrong? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nucci Posted November 17, 2016 Share Posted November 17, 2016 out of good faith? because he wants to do the right thing? stranger things have happened, you know. the right thing for whom? I wouldn't give any money back Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fadingpain Posted November 17, 2016 Share Posted November 17, 2016 This is correct. Team building is 1 part talent evaluation, 1 part psychiatric evaluation. You cannot make that kind of commitment to a player unless you KNOW he has the drive. Will he continue to strive for glory and for the team when guaranteed unimaginable riches? It is very easy for a guy to go into the tank once paid. Especially present day with how much information on the severity of long term physical damage is, and the perception that owners are taking advantage of the players. What makes you think the big K has made Dareus fat and lazy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted November 17, 2016 Share Posted November 17, 2016 this goes beyond performance, though, and MD is not the average bear. I'm not saying it will happen. I'm saying it's not impossible. It isn't. He was suspended for making poor choices. If he feels he compounded that mistake by not being physically ready to return, there could be some guilt there. Probability <5% I read he was "possibly suicidal" over that... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleeding Bills Blue Posted November 17, 2016 Share Posted November 17, 2016 (edited) He won't with his contract he is on this team through the 2018 season. Not sure why the Bills would want to do anything with his contract. His hits are not the worst Just a ton of dead money if off team before the 2018 season ends. Yeah - the contract has no outs... which is bad. But we also have a manageable cap hit for 4 years... which is good. Can't have everything. You mean there's literally NO ONE else the Bills could have signed for that Dareus money? I hated the contract at the time, so this is no hindsight is 20-20 thing. It's not my job to decide where to apply Pegula's money. That's Whaley's job last I checked. As for the chance that Dareus would've been a slacker to show his displeasure with being franchise tagged: that is the definition of a risk worth taking. Crippling the cap for about 4 years with a horrible Dareus contract, not so much. And I know people love McCoy etc, etc, but having whiffed on the playoffs during his max value year (likely soon to be plural) and being stuck with his decline years in the future, how can anyone other than Whaley's family say events have proven me wrong? We can dump mccoy after this year if we want to.. 2018 or 19 is more likely since the dead number is lower. Our cap isn't crippled in any way. We project to have 20 mil in space before any moves are made. That is assuming we keep Tyrod. Cutting KW will save us like 6 million. Graham will save us another couple. If Aaron retires, that saves us some more. Even cutting carp saves us 2.5 mil. Edited November 17, 2016 by dneveu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CountDorkula Posted November 17, 2016 Share Posted November 17, 2016 this goes beyond performance, though, and MD is not the average bear. I'm not saying it will happen. I'm saying it's not impossible. It isn't. He was suspended for making poor choices. If he feels he compounded that mistake by not being physically ready to return, there could be some guilt there. Probability <0% FTFY Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papazoid Posted November 17, 2016 Share Posted November 17, 2016 how is this any different than Mario last year. say it any way you like.....they both quit on their team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackOrton Posted November 17, 2016 Share Posted November 17, 2016 FTFY No dude, see it was impossible for Schwartz to remain as DC, but Dareus giving guaranteed money back in such a soft-hearted sport as professional football? Distinct possibility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted November 17, 2016 Share Posted November 17, 2016 No dude, see it was impossible for Schwartz to remain as DC, but Dareus giving guaranteed money back in such a soft-hearted sport as professional football? Distinct possibility. i enjoyed this more than i should have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CardinalScotts Posted November 17, 2016 Share Posted November 17, 2016 so the article should read: Some Bills Management wants to move on from Dareus but cap hit too large. - short article but ya Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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