Chef Jim Posted November 18, 2016 Posted November 18, 2016 Chef Jim, I'd like to hear your take on alcohol prohibition. Do you think alcohol should be legal? Did the end of prohabition not hurt the mob? I know your a California guy, could you imagine no California wine industry? Comparing this to legalization of alcohol is apples to oranges. I think making something legal that is currently illegal is different from making something currently legal illegal. Now with regard to the repeal of prohibition. Yes it hurt organized crime but it also forced them into other black market products such as drugs. Did drug addiction increase after the repeal of prohibition? I'm pretty sure it did. Did the increase in drug addiction increase because of the repeal of prohibition? Why did it increase? It's because organized crime moved from selling booze to other illicit activity such as gambling and selling drugs. And I think that's exactly what is happening her with the repeal of the prohibition of marijuana. I'm not saying I'm for or against I'm just saying the repeal of the prohibition is why were seeing an increase in use of drugs like heroin. As to the bolded, I think you are wrong. I think Augie is spot on. I am basing my opinion on knowing people who unfortunately slipped into heroin addiction, talking with police officers, as well as a substance abuse counselor. I asked this question of all of them because it is so unthinkable to me. I always wondered who decides to just take up heroin. Every single one of them stated it is never the intention to abuse heroin. People get a prescription for an opiod and then get hooked. When they can't get their hands on a script they turn to the cheaper alternative. Heroin use is not increasing due to availability it is increasing due to the prescription drug problem this country turns a blind eye to. From your own linked article: the sticky brown and black “tar” heroin they produce is channeled by traffickers into the U.S. communities hit hardest by prescription painkiller abuse, offering addicts a $10 alternative to $80-a-pill oxycodone. later: The United States has an estimated 600,000 heroin users, Payne said — a threefold increase in the past five years. But that number is dwarfed by the estimated 10 million Americans who abuse prescription painkillers. Those addicts are the prime target for the booming heroin business. A U.S. crackdown on prescription opiates has driven up the price for drugs such as OxyContin and Percocet, enticing desperate addicts to switch to cheap heroin to fend off withdrawal symptoms. later still: “Now, we’re seeing housewives coming in who had been addicted to Vicodin for two or three years before switching to heroin, Augie hits the nail on the head. There has to be a demand for heroin. Increasing supply will do nothing but decrease cost. People won't just try heroin there is almost always a pre-existing addiction that is replaced by heroin. Let me try again. Why are people popping pills all of a sudden becoming addicted to heroin? Pills are becoming harder do get and more expensive. Heroin is plentiful and cheap. Why is it plentiful and cheap? Because the cartels are seeing there pot business going away due to the repeal of the prohibition on pot. So they've shifted to heroin. THAT is my point. The repeal of the ban on pot is a (not the but A) factor in the increase in heroin use. At least that's my opinion.
Augie Posted November 18, 2016 Posted November 18, 2016 (edited) Legalizing pot on it's own will do almost nothing to increase the demand for heroin. If you want to increase demand, act in a way that will suck people in. That is by making pills more available - Benzos like Xanax then opiates like roxys or something similar, etc. These are much easier to get on the street than Vicodin or Oxy. It's a process. NOBODY starts with heroin. Pills! THAT is where the battle is. They lead to the type of addiction that may lead to heroin use. It's almost completely (but not 100%) unrelated to pot. If you haven't already started on the pills, you will not just start shooting up. I don't care if Macy's has an over-supply of bell bottoms and they are selling them dirt cheap, I don't want them. There is no demand. I'm not sure if you realize the extent of the pill epidemic. It is colossal! And it's still an issue. Because it is getting more expensive may just get people to heroin sooner. But again, it's almost completely unrelated to pot. I really wish I knew less about this, but I'm not guessing on this. It's not an opinion with so much data. Edited November 18, 2016 by Augie
Saxum Posted November 19, 2016 Posted November 19, 2016 Weed isn't bad this countries obsession with prescription pills is. It can be psychologically addicting but that is a much easier habit to break than something that is physically addicting and it happens in rare cases. It won't kill you as it is impossible to od on. It won't cause you to steal from loved ones to get your next fix. How marijuana ended up being more demonized than alcohol is beyond me. Ask yourself if you know anyone who turns into an a**hole when they drink. Now ask yourself if you have even ever heard of someone turning into an a**hole after smoking weed. Alcoholism is rampant in this country and we are bombarded by beer ads and prescription ads that are twice as long because they have to list all the side effects however the thought of weed be legalized is terrifying to some. I just don't get it. Had a cousin stealing and hocking items to get money for MJ. He was a nice kid but after getting into MJ he became @ssh0le and not one test ever did on him found any other drug. Didn't even drink alcohol. He was caught getting in trouble, given choice between rehab center and jail and choose rehab, came out, got a good job from family connections and blew it being stoned in office. When he lost job he started stealing from family to buy MJ. MJ affects people differently. Do you let your kids smoke up with you?
Fan in San Diego Posted November 19, 2016 Posted November 19, 2016 I can only imagine the amazing discussions back in the day over alcohol prohibition. Chef, could you imagine no California wine industry? SD is currently having a political debate about alcohol. The newly opened Hollywood casino in Jamul has a temporary alcohol license. People are arguing to take their alcohol license away because they are afraid of drunk drivers. To me this is BS, its on people to drink responsibly , not ban something out of fear of drunk drivers, where do we draw the line? Lets close bars because someone might drive drunk! Where does this argument end? Lets go back to prohibition with this logic. I thought this paranoid logic applied to MJ being legalized.
Augie Posted November 19, 2016 Posted November 19, 2016 Had a cousin stealing and hocking items to get money for MJ. He was a nice kid but after getting into MJ he became @ssh0le and not one test ever did on him found any other drug. Didn't even drink alcohol. He was caught getting in trouble, given choice between rehab center and jail and choose rehab, came out, got a good job from family connections and blew it being stoned in office. When he lost job he started stealing from family to buy MJ. MJ affects people differently. Do you let your kids smoke up with you? Yep, pot can be psychologically addicting and affect people in different ways. It's more complicated than we often realize. How old was he? The frontal lobe doesn't develop until mid 20's affecting executive decision making. That's HUGE. Who were his friends? Was there a girl(s) involved? (Huge again!) What happened to him as a child that we may or may not know about? On and on.... I have a very good friend who's son was a chronic pot smoker through high school and they said "at least it's just pot, he'll grow out of it". There was a girl who was a bad influence. Now he's a recovering heroin addict and a convicted felon in his mid-20's. Pills were the stepping stone, of course. When he got caught after his crime spree he was in his car on dilaudid, which I had after surgery once. Do NOT play with dilaudid! I fell in love at the hospital, got scared and asked for something less awesome/scary. I apologize if I pontificate on this too much and I'll back off now. I'm not pretending to be a doctor, but we've been through a lot, as have many of our friends. My son is now in a position to help other families (it IS the entire family that suffers), and we took it upon ourselves to be open about this years ago. There are a lot of people out there struggling with this, and sometimes they need someone to talk to and need a little direction. Being open about it has led to numerous people coming to us asking for help. Talking to people who will not judge you is especially valuable and helpful. So I'm open for that...
Andrew Son Posted November 19, 2016 Posted November 19, 2016 SD is currently having a political debate about alcohol. The newly opened Hollywood casino in Jamul has a temporary alcohol license. People are arguing to take their alcohol license away because they are afraid of drunk drivers. To me this is BS, its on people to drink responsibly , not ban something out of fear of drunk drivers, where do we draw the line? Lets close bars because someone might drive drunk! Where does this argument end? Lets go back to prohibition with this logic. I thought this paranoid logic applied to MJ being legalized. Completely agreed. Can't legislate out personal responsibility
plenzmd1 Posted November 19, 2016 Posted November 19, 2016 Do you let your kids smoke up with you? My son is 15, and i don't let him drink even though alcohol is legal. So you think that when weed becomes legal i will give my kid a box of J's for Christmas and say "smoke em up Johnny" .
Johnny Hammersticks Posted November 19, 2016 Posted November 19, 2016 My son is 15, and i don't let him drink even though alcohol is legal. So you think that when weed becomes legal i will give my kid a box of J's for Christmas and say "smoke em up Johnny" . Gee, thanks Dad! This is the best Christmas ever!! Let's toke up and spend some quality time together watching 3 stooges episodes!! I love you...
Augie Posted November 19, 2016 Posted November 19, 2016 Gee, thanks Dad! This is the best Christmas ever!! Let's toke up and spend some quality time together watching 3 stooges episodes!! I love you... Did Santa leave any cookies and milk behind????
Johnny Hammersticks Posted November 19, 2016 Posted November 19, 2016 Did Santa leave any cookies and milk behind???? Fu$&er cleaned house! Even ate all of my Cookie Crisp cereal?!
Augie Posted November 19, 2016 Posted November 19, 2016 Fu$&er cleaned house! Even ate all of my Cookie Crisp cereal?! It's a wonder he can get down the friggin' chimney!
Bob in Mich Posted November 20, 2016 Posted November 20, 2016 (edited) Potential AG Sessions is very much against cannabis. I am hopeful Trump will keep him from undoing too much progress that has been made on cannabis laws but wouldn't be surprised to see a crackdown. http://www.cnn.com/2016/11/18/politics/sessions-marijuana-enforcement/index.html Edited November 20, 2016 by Bob in Mich
PromoTheRobot Posted November 21, 2016 Posted November 21, 2016 Potential AG Sessions is very much against cannabis. I am hopeful Trump will keep him from undoing too much progress that has been made on cannabis laws but wouldn't be surprised to see a crackdown. http://www.cnn.com/2016/11/18/politics/sessions-marijuana-enforcement/index.html So much for State's Rights. It only applies when Dems are in the White House.
Saxum Posted November 21, 2016 Posted November 21, 2016 So much for State's Rights. It only applies when Dems are in the White House. Drug enforcement has never been a State's rights.
Johnny Hammersticks Posted November 21, 2016 Posted November 21, 2016 So much for State's Rights. It only applies when Dems are in the White House. Don't worry. We'll just have to ride this out until the pendulum swings back to the left in November of 2018. Ahhhh....the flippancy of the populace.
Andrew Son Posted November 21, 2016 Posted November 21, 2016 Potential AG Sessions is very much against cannabis. I am hopeful Trump will keep him from undoing too much progress that has been made on cannabis laws but wouldn't be surprised to see a crackdown. http://www.cnn.com/2016/11/18/politics/sessions-marijuana-enforcement/index.html This is very, very bad...
Chef Jim Posted November 21, 2016 Posted November 21, 2016 This is very, very bad... OMG it's terrible!!! We may not be able to get stoned legally anymore. Our lives will be ruined!! Impeach the bastard now (ok so we can't yet but you know what I mean).
boyst Posted November 21, 2016 Posted November 21, 2016 Why isn't this in PPP yet? Hot garbage. Don't worry. We'll just have to ride this out until the pendulum swings back to the left in November of 2018. Ahhhh....the flippancy of the populace.pendulum won't be shifting. The Republicans only have a small amount of positions to lose, versus the Dems. Its almost 100% guaranteed that it remains Republican control of everything thru 2018. This is very, very bad...this won't stop one pothead from lighting up. Its not bad. And its not a states right. Funny, so many things the left wants the feds to have control of. So many things they dont
PromoTheRobot Posted November 21, 2016 Posted November 21, 2016 this won't stop one pothead from lighting up. Its not bad. And its not a states right. Funny, so many things the left wants the feds to have control of. So many things they dont Yeah, funny that it goes both ways. Okay if people are still going to light up, why let the black market reap the profit? There's millions sitting right there. Money we could use back in the legal economy.
boyst Posted November 21, 2016 Posted November 21, 2016 Yeah, funny that it goes both ways. Okay if people are still going to light up, why let the black market reap the profit? There's millions sitting right there. Money we could use back in the legal economy. I Dont make my policies based off of taxabilities If you give up title ix I'll give up federal drug regulation haha
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