Darby may lose job to White

[The Big Cat]

Exactly. The CBs are being exposed because Rex's defense - the full version, not the Rex Lite we saw last year - is built on exposing them in man-to-man coverage, freeing Rex up to bring pressure from all directions. So we get the elevated sack totals, but since neither Gilmore nor Darby is good enough to stick with good (not "great" - we're talking Doug Baldwin, Eric Decker, Chris Hogan here) receivers without safety help, Rex is getting burned regularly. So you can (1) blame the CBs for not being elite, prime Revis types; (2) blame Rex for thinking that they were; (3) blame Whaley for not bringing in the personnel to help hide Gilmore's and Darby's weaknesses; (4) blame all of the above. I vote (4). Oh, and by the way, great season by Lorax, and I really like him and the constant effort he puts out. But you have to remember that he benefits from the same schemes that are destroying Gilmore's future value. Folks, it's mostly this: the defensive personnel just isn't good enough. You can get pressure by leaving other guys' weaknesses exposed. Scheme all you want, you can't hide the weaknesses. I almost feel sorry for Rex. Almost...

 

They're being exposed as "not good." It's not that elite-level play is required. It's that competent play isn't even being achieved. I don't know many schemes built to function when your CB1 and CB2 dabble in incompetence at some point every week.

1. The blown long play against SF
2. The blown long play against MIA
3. The blown long play against BAL (he gone)
4. All of the Jets game
5. Most of the New England game
6. Key moments in Seattle

We're talking about two to three losses negated by competent DB play.

 

The only games not mentioned above featured an injured Jake Briscuit, the up and down Cardinals (although that was prob the DB's best game of the season by far) and Case Keenum, who still managed completions of:

1. 31 yards
2. 31 yards
3. 28 yards
4. 26 yards
5. 24 yards
6. 21 yards

I think that the really tricky part about all of this is that the scheme is working every where else.

 

An overhaul or even a philosophical rethink is bound to compromise the things the defense is doing well.

 

So I guess the question is, would you rather do three or four things worse for the sake of doing one thing better? And if two of those things are stop the run and get to the QB?

Edited November 15, 2016 by The Big Cat

[BringBackOrton]

 

They're being exposed as "not good." It's not that elite-level play is required. It's that competent play isn't even being achieved. I don't know many schemes built to function when your CB1 and CB2 dabble in incompetence at some point every week.

1. The blown long play against SF
2. The blown long play against MIA
3. The blown long play against BAL (he gone)
4. All of the Jets game
5. Most of the New England game

We're talking about two to three losses negated by competent DB play.

Why did our CB's become incompetent, seemingly overnight?

[The Frankish Reich]

Why did our CB's become incompetent, seemingly overnight?

I don't think they're incompetent, although obviously others disagree. I do think they're no better than average, maybe a little worse. I watch Wade Phillips in Denver playing his CBs man-to-man and bringing pressure from everywhere else and it seems to be working. So I have to conclude that their CBs (Harris, Talib, even Bradley Robey) are just plain better than ours, and it's not even close. Which shouldn't surprise anyone since the Broncs defense has been dominant and the Bills has been, umm, not dominant. But here's the weird thing: against all evidence to the contrary, we've had knowledgeable fans right here insist that Gilmore and Darby really are that good, and it's all on Rex. Winning or losing man-to-man is about as individual as football gets. It's kind of like pitcher vs hitter. Either you win the majority of the time or you don't. And lately our guys just don't. (Related point: I also understand that Jerry Hughes is not Von Miller, so bringing pressure that doesn't quite get there in time is also part of the problem)

[BringBackOrton]

Great question.

 

Why did our defense become extremely inconsistent as soon as Rex got here?

Another one, why did Leodis McKelvin and Stephon Gilmore have more "competence" two years ago?

I don't think they're incompetent, although obviously others disagree. I do think they're no better than average, maybe a little worse. I watch Wade Phillips in Denver playing his CBs man-to-man and bringing pressure from everywhere else and it seems to be working. So I have to conclude that their CBs (Harris, Talib, even Bradley Robey) are just plain better than ours, and it's not even close. Which shouldn't surprise anyone since the Broncs defense has been dominant and the Bills has been, umm, not dominant. But here's the weird thing: against all evidence to the contrary, we've had knowledgeable fans right here insist that Gilmore and Darby really are that good, and it's all on Rex. Winning or losing man-to-man is about as individual as football gets. It's kind of like pitcher vs hitter. Either you win the majority of the time or you don't. And lately our guys just don't. (Related point: I also understand that Jerry Hughes is not Von Miller, so bringing pressure that doesn't quite get there in time is also part of the problem)

Stephon Gilmore has been at least an above average CB1 for the last few years, and Darby was a top 10 CB last season. All evidence to the contrary say what?

[The Big Cat]

I don't think they're incompetent, although obviously others disagree. I do think they're no better than average, maybe a little worse. I watch Wade Phillips in Denver playing his CBs man-to-man and bringing pressure from everywhere else and it seems to be working. So I have to conclude that their CBs (Harris, Talib, even Bradley Robey) are just plain better than ours, and it's not even close. Which shouldn't surprise anyone since the Broncs defense has been dominant and the Bills has been, umm, not dominant. But here's the weird thing: against all evidence to the contrary, we've had knowledgeable fans right here insist that Gilmore and Darby really are that good, and it's all on Rex. Winning or losing man-to-man is about as individual as football gets. It's kind of like pitcher vs hitter. Either you win the majority of the time or you don't. And lately our guys just don't. (Related point: I also understand that Jerry Hughes is not Von Miller, so bringing pressure that doesn't quite get there in time is also part of the problem)

 

I mean..."a little worse than average" is just a nicer way of saying "incompetent."

 

I think our guys are incompetent too often. But not all the time.

Edited November 15, 2016 by The Big Cat

[The Frankish Reich]

 

I mean..."a little worse than average" is just a nicer way of saying "incompetent."

 

I think our guys are incompetent too often. But not all the time.

I guess I'm just being nice, or clinging to what's left of my optimism ... Incompetent it is!

[The Big Cat]

I guess I'm just being nice, or clinging to what's left of my optimism ... Incompetent it is!

 

Well, you essentially echoed what I was saying last week: if you can't stay with your man 1v1, or you're losing him in a big way once a game...that's a problem. And it comes down squarely on execution.

[Luxy312]

For every week that we've seen more and more big plays on our CB's, I keep asking myself a simple question. Where is the safety help over the top? Why is Rex so incapable of making adjustments? Is it him being stubborn or stupid?

[The Big Cat]

For every week that we've seen more and more big plays on our CB's, I keep asking myself a simple question. Where is the safety help over the top? Why is Rex so incapable of making adjustments? Is it him being stubborn or stupid?

 

They get plenty of help. They don't get it on every play.

[John from Riverside]

Darby might be struggling....but it is obvious to me that we are getting slammed because of HORRIBLE safety play

 

as evidenced of cutting a long time bill that could not cut the mustard and signing another vet guy.

 

I know we dont put much stock on prob bowl....but this new safety DID make the pro bowl one year.

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

For every week that we've seen more and more big plays on our CB's, I keep asking myself a simple question. Where is the safety help over the top? Why is Rex so incapable of making adjustments? Is it him being stubborn or stupid?

 

If we rush 4 every play, and just play cover 2 man - they will always have help. The issue is that a super vanilla defense like this will get picked apart by most QBs. If you want to trail technique the smart QB uses his eyes to drag the safety where he wants. If you want to play tight, they'll do back shoulder stuff and hitches. You also run into issues on screens and rub routes.

 

If you want to run 2 deep safeties to "help" gilmore and darby - go right ahead. I'd just run the ball and run short passes and screens all game.

Edited November 15, 2016 by dneveu

[Blokestradamus]

 

If we rush 4 every play, and just play cover 2 man - they will always have help. The issue is that a super vanilla defense like this will get picked apart by most QBs. If you want to trail technique the smart QB uses his eyes to drag the safety where he wants. If you want to play tight, they'll do back shoulder stuff and hitches. You also run into issues on screens and rub routes.

 

If you want to run 2 deep safeties to "help" gilmore and darby - go right ahead. I'd just run the ball and run short passes and screens all game.

 

The key is to be unpredictable and I really don't think the coaches have done a great job with that. We've rarely seen that mad scientist Rex come out like it did against the likes of Andrew Luck. There's a fine balance between playing to your strengths and keeping the offense guessing. The issues aren't just coaching or scheme or players, that's the frustrating bit. It seems like every facet of the structure has failed at some point or another.

 

Hell, I'd even rethink the idea of playing the corners exclusively on the left/right, makes them too easy to attack with bad matchups.

[2003Contenders]

I also do not think we can overestimate the poor play from the safety position this year. Everything went downhill once Aaron Williams went down. Also, Graham appears to have lost a step and become a liability in recent weeks.

 

As much as many here love NRC, aside from making the occasional big play, he is also a liability in coverage -- especially against big, physical receivers.

[Andrew Son]

The Trump administration has begun, White's taking all the jobs...

[Blokestradamus]

As much as many here love NRC, aside from making the occasional big play, he is also a liability in coverage -- especially against big, physical receivers.

 

Nickell is only a major liability when they make him become one. He's had a pretty decent season when he's not been isolated on behemoth tight ends.

 

Part of my rationale for playing White outside, Darby in the slot. It's easier (not easy) to cover a Gronk/Graham/Eifert with a 5'11", 193 corner than a 5'6", 165 corner.

[Beef Jerky]

Chris Brown on WGR right now is saying that White could put Darby on the Bench.

I think it is clear to say Darby has regressed.

Donnie Henderson being fired is really hurting Darby's growth I think.

I think Darby is hurting himself. I don't like putting the blame on getting rid of a coach... Not like these players forget everything they learned the second a coach leaves.

[The Big Cat]

I think Darby is hurting himself. I don't like putting the blame on getting rid of a coach... Not like these players forget everything they learned the second a coach leaves.

 

i just don't follow the logic of those who insist they do.

[NoSaint]

 

i just don't follow the logic of those who insist they do.

but the coach could push different techniques.

 

there could be poor communication between coordinator and position coach (and maybe assistant position coach) causing issues.

 

could be a variety of things related to coaching changes.

[The Big Cat]

but the coach could push different techniques.

 

there could be poor communication between coordinator and position coach (and maybe assistant position coach) causing issues.

 

could be a variety of things related to coaching changes.

 

they could also be having lousy years.

 

they could also have lousy attitudes.

 

LorAx's comments might lend themselves to the latter.

[NoSaint]

 

they could also be having lousy years.

 

they could also have lousy attitudes.

 

LorAx's comments might lend themselves to the latter.

could be the kind of thing a coach could help them through, i suppose, if playing devils advocate.