manbeast Posted November 15, 2016 Posted November 15, 2016 He has sucked when his supporting cast was healthy, too. Don't forget ... he played 14 games last season and being down Sammy Watkins isn't a get out of jail free card. Every team has injuries. Enough excuses. For Christ's sake. Don't care to comment on any of our statistics, I am really interested in your take on those.
Maury Ballstein Posted November 15, 2016 Posted November 15, 2016 No because we finally have a competent QB and you want him gone for a unknown rookie Would really stink to draft the next Dak Prescott when we have a chance to keep another 8-8 for life qb.
todd Posted November 15, 2016 Posted November 15, 2016 You didn't include running stats. Go figure. Of course, why would you? It wouldn't help prove your weak-assed point, so it gets left out. And those INT stats for that mediocre Miami QB - more than double TT's. That's horrid and indefensible. Keep the crusade going, though. It is at least entertaining to laugh at you. Correct. For YEARS I've heard how terrible Tannehill is around here and yet...he's outperforming the golden boy. Go figure.
papazoid Posted November 15, 2016 Posted November 15, 2016 if Dak Prescott was drafted by most any other team...like the rams, eagles, browns, jets, SF, chi....it would be a completely different story for him. he'd probably still be on the bench. he fell into the perfect situation playing behind an all world O-line. you put TT behind that O-line and there would be no talk of drafting his replacement.
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted November 15, 2016 Author Posted November 15, 2016 You didn't include running stats. Go figure. Of course, why would you? It wouldn't help prove your weak-assed point, so it gets left out. And those INT stats for that mediocre Miami QB - more than double TT's. That's horrid and indefensible. Keep the crusade going, though. It is at least entertaining to laugh at you. A QB's job isn't to be a running back. It's to be a QB. When forced "to be a QB" the golden boy has come up reeeeeeally short.
Maury Ballstein Posted November 15, 2016 Posted November 15, 2016 if Dak Prescott was drafted by most any other team...like the rams, eagles, browns, jets, SF, chi....it would be a completely different story for him. he'd probably still be on the bench.he fell into the perfect situation playing behind an all world O-line.you put TT behind that O-line and there would be no talk of drafting his replacement. This is a cool story the CoT can all rally around.
Gugny Posted November 15, 2016 Posted November 15, 2016 Don't care to comment on any of our statistics, I am really interested in your take on those. I've commented plenty. They are garbage time stats. It's like a DH hitting 40 home runs, but 36 of them are solo shots in the 9th inning when his team is either up or down by 5 runs. What good does it do the team? None. The stats are pretty, but this team has 5 losses 9 weeks in. His pretty stats don't do anything to help the team win games.
manbeast Posted November 15, 2016 Posted November 15, 2016 I've commented plenty. They are garbage time stats. It's like a DH hitting 40 home runs, but 36 of them are solo shots in the 9th inning when his team is either up or down by 5 runs. What good does it do the team? None. The stats are pretty, but this team has 5 losses 9 weeks in. His pretty stats don't do anything to help the team win games. Garbage time stats from a game that we won, and two games we were still in till the end? One we possibly should have one for prospective 16-0, 37-31, 31-25. Your tires are really startn to spin. I'm still not sure about him but your evaluation and comparison in this thread is not legitimate at all. He's not a prototypical QB but I think in the end he may be the best the league has ever had that plays that style. He's better than Kap and he played in a SuperBowl.
Gugny Posted November 15, 2016 Posted November 15, 2016 Garbage time stats from a game that we won, and two games we were still in till the end? One we possibly should have one for prospective 16-0, 37-31, 31-25. Your tires are really startn to spin. I'm still not sure about him but your evaluation and comparison in this thread is not legitimate at all. He's not a prototypical QB but I think in the end he may be the best the league has ever had that plays that style. He's better than Kap and he played in a SuperBowl. Sweet Jesus, I'm done.
Kirby Jackson Posted November 15, 2016 Posted November 15, 2016 (edited) I'll take that as an invitation to chime in. I do think EJ is better. Than both of them. But we'll likely never know because the Bills' HC derailed his career. I think you're seeing Tyrod bashing because Bills fans had a week of looking at other teams play. With REAL rookies/young guys. And we watched them do exponentially better than Tyrod Taylor can do. If you want to hold onto the fact that "Tyrod Taylor is the best QB on the BIlls," then go for it. But that's not saying a hell of lot, now, is it? The 2nd year starter crap is that ... crap. It's another bullschit excuse, along with, "no receivers," "injuries," "O-line," "different systems," Wah wah, blah blah. He sucks. Don't do it Gug, please for the love of God don't do it. There is ABSOLUTELY ZERO support for that argument. Even trying to make it will just crush any other opinion that you have on a QB much like BB when he wanted to trade for Skelton. It makes you BB4E instead of a poster with strong opinions on a player. Do not become that crazy uncle. There is not one scout in the world that believes that EJ is better than Tannehill or Tyrod. You can try to manipulate things in anyway possible but won't get anywhere. If you look at them side-by-side it will be ugly. It is like trying to make an argument that Khloe is the hottest Kardashian sister. EJ hasn't even proven to be a serviceable backup while both Tyrod and Tannehill have proven to be solid NFL starters. Every metric imaginable will support this. if you think that the Bills and Dolphins can and should upgrade that's a reasonable argument. If you think that EJ Manuel would be that upgrade, you can't be taken seriously on the matter. A QB's job isn't to be a running back. It's to be a QB. When forced "to be a QB" the golden boy has come up reeeeeeally short. A QB's job is to score points. It isn't to have a certain number of passing attempts. Edited November 15, 2016 by Kirby Jackson
Gugny Posted November 15, 2016 Posted November 15, 2016 Don't do it Gug, please for the love of God don't do it. There is ABSOLUTELY ZERO support for that argument. Even trying to make it will just crush any other opinion that you have on a QB much like BB when he wanted to trade for Skelton. It makes you BB4E instead of a poster with strong opinions on a player. Do not become that crazy uncle. There is not one scout in the world that believes that EJ is better than Tannehill or Tyrod. You can try to manipulate things in anyway possible but won't get anywhere. If you look at them side-by-side it will be ugly. It is like trying to make an argument that Khloe is the hottest Kardashian sister. EJ hasn't even proven to be a serviceable backup while both Tyrod and Tannehill have proven to be solid NFL starters. Every metric imaginable will support this. if you think that the Bills and Dolphins can and should upgrade that's a reasonable argument. If you think that EJ Manuel would be that upgrade, you can't be taken seriously on the matter. A QB's job is to score points. It isn't to have a certain number of passing attempts. All kidding aside, I think Tannehill is better than anyone on our roster. I honestly think EJ and Taylor are neck and neck. That's not me saying that I think EJ is good, per se. It's more me saying that they're both bad. I also honestly think that if EJ was ever given reps with the first team, that he would give the Bills a better (albeit slightly) chance to win games. When it's all said and done, what I truly believe is that Tannehill is a barely average starting QB, while both EJ and Taylor are both serviceable backups.
BillsVet Posted November 15, 2016 Posted November 15, 2016 (edited) Competent? I will respectfully disagree. He's capable of managing a game IF the defense is on its game AND special teams are, too. A few flaws? Inability to read a defense. Inability to call audibles. Inability to step up into the pocket. Inability to pass with any consistent accuracy outside of sideline passes; he is indecisive; he holds the ball too long; he abandons plays too quickly, leaving receivers open. Damn. You're right. I guess it's not that bad, is it. You forgot to mention his ability to get his receivers labeled. Of course he is getting paid to run. He is a short QB who makes up for his lack of height by moving around behind the LOS and keeping defenses honest with his feet. Then why hasn't Buffalo implemented the Single Wing yet? Check this out: http://www.espn.com/nfl/player/splits/_/id/14163/tyrod-taylor We can debate whether the play-calls are for short passes or the QB is throwing short, but it's most likely a combination of both. Yet, TT is completing less than 46% of his passes beyond 11 yards. He has attempted all of 20 throws over the middle of the field out of 268 attempts. And he's a mere 10-33 for 398 yards on passes beyond 21 yards. Furthermore, two-thirds of TT's throws are to the right or left sideline. Something is not right here and while no one can know the play calls, there hasn't been a lot of improvement for a QB who's in his 2nd year with this offense. QB's in low risk, low reward systems don't get teams to the playoffs. He could run for 1,000 yards and it wouldn't make a difference. Edited November 15, 2016 by BillsVet
Cripple Creek Posted November 15, 2016 Posted November 15, 2016 It is a bit of both. Tyrod has been inaccurate. May be the Bills should first put supporting talent around him to completely evaluate him before getting rid of him. I agree he has not been a good closer...All good/great QBs know how to win games when it is on the line. But he still needs help. And don't forget our Defense...it has been crappy! The window shuts too quickly. It is time to move on.
BillsFan130 Posted November 15, 2016 Posted November 15, 2016 Would really stink to draft the next Dak Prescott when we have a chance to keep another 8-8 for life qb. Yes but finding a Dak Prescott is so unlikely. It was very lucky and combine the fact that Dallas has an amazing supporting cast around him with good coaching. Tyrod with a good supporting cast is better than 8-8
Tenhigh Posted November 15, 2016 Posted November 15, 2016 You forgot to mention his ability to get his receivers labeled. Then why hasn't Buffalo implemented the Single Wing yet? Check this out: http://www.espn.com/nfl/player/splits/_/id/14163/tyrod-taylor We can debate whether the play-calls are for short passes or the QB is throwing short, but it's most likely a combination of both. Yet, TT is completing less than 46% of his passes beyond 11 yards. He has attempted all of 20 throws over the middle of the field out of 268 attempts. And he's a mere 10-33 for 398 yards on passes beyond 21 yards. Furthermore, two-thirds of TT's throws are to the right or left sideline. Something is not right here and while no one can know the play calls, there hasn't been a lot of improvement for a QB who's in his 2nd year with this offense. QB's in low risk, low reward systems don't get teams to the playoffs. He could run for 1,000 yards and it wouldn't make a difference. If we had more consistency from the right tackle, I'd be surprised that they weren't rolling the pocket out more. Hopefully Henderson comes back and he's ready to play. If he can do a better job in pass pro than Millsy it should open up some more plays across the middle for Taylor.
Gugny Posted November 15, 2016 Posted November 15, 2016 Yes but finding a Dak Prescott is so unlikely. It was very lucky and combine the fact that Dallas has an amazing supporting cast around him with good coaching. Tyrod with a good supporting cast is better than 8-8 Unlikely if you try. Impossible if you don't.
Kirby Jackson Posted November 15, 2016 Posted November 15, 2016 (edited) All kidding aside, I think Tannehill is better than anyone on our roster. I honestly think EJ and Taylor are neck and neck. That's not me saying that I think EJ is good, per se. It's more me saying that they're both bad. I also honestly think that if EJ was ever given reps with the first team, that he would give the Bills a better (albeit slightly) chance to win games. When it's all said and done, what I truly believe is that Tannehill is a barely average starting QB, while both EJ and Taylor are both serviceable backups. I know that we have been down this road but it is still a hard argument to make. All of the rating measures have Tyrod as a middle of the pack starter. If you believe that you can improve from him that's fine. A lot of people share that opinion. If you don't believe that he is a starter that is tough argument to make. He has 30 TDs to 9 INTs and another 8 on the ground in a Bills uniform. That is an extremely high ratio. He is basically a mobile Alex Smith. His rushing yards HAVE to be factored into any evaluation as that is a huge part of his skill set. That is a huge reason that Cam Newton was the league MVP last year. Tyrod's 40.4 yards per game is a lot. The 3 factors that Tyrod (or any Bills QB in this offense) need to be judged on are 3rd down conversions, red zone efficiency and turnovers. The QB in Rex Ryan's offense needs to do those things. The Bills are 7th in Red Zone efficiency https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/red-zone-scoring-pct, 14th in 3rd down efficiency https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/third-down-conversion-pct, and the Bills have the fewest turnovers in the league http://www.footballdb.com/stats/turnovers.html?sort=givetot. They are scoring and he is executing what's asked of him pretty well. That isn't the play of the 45th best QB in the NFL (or a serviceable back up). There isn't an argument in the world other than "I really think so" that supports EJ being anywhere near the same player as Tyrod. We know that you believe it and applaud you for sticking by your guns but there is no logic to it. There is nothing to support that thought. It isn't like we are arguing Romo or Dak where there are things that you could argue to support either. This is like arguing Drew Brees or Luke McCown (and no I am not comparing Tyrod to Brees). There is just nothing to support McCown being better. In terms of Tannehill I have always been hard on him because my view of him is mostly against the Bills and he struggles. When I see him, he doesn't look that good. He has however put together some good stretches and in total is a serviceable starter as well. He may not be a guy that can lead you to a championship (and TT may not be either) but you can do much worse than either of them. Unlikely if you try. Impossible if you don't. I don't disagree with this. They have taken their shot with Cardale. He needs some time but has every physical trait imaginable. He was definitely a swing for the fences type of pick. Time will tell if he continues to develop. I would much rather take someone like him that has an incredibly high ceiling than someone like Kevin Hogan who, at best, can be a backup IMO. Edited November 15, 2016 by Kirby Jackson
Bleeding Bills Blue Posted November 15, 2016 Posted November 15, 2016 Yes but finding a Dak Prescott is so unlikely. It was very lucky and combine the fact that Dallas has an amazing supporting cast around him with good coaching. Tyrod with a good supporting cast is better than 8-8 3 former QBs... Head coach, O coordinator, QB coach. Oh - and a solid veteran starter in the film study room... Probably helps a tad.
BillsFan130 Posted November 15, 2016 Posted November 15, 2016 Unlikely if you try. Impossible if you don't. I am all for drafting one. But don't get rid of a descent QB to take a shot in the dark and rely on a rookie. Keep tyrod and draft one
Kirby Jackson Posted November 15, 2016 Posted November 15, 2016 I am all for drafting one. But don't get rid of a descent QB to take a shot in the dark and rely on a rookie. Keep tyrod and draft one I would rather sign a veteran backup (Hoyer maybe) and develop Cardale as the young guy. I don't like this QB class.
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