Pros and cons of keeping Rex next season

[Fixxxer]

You make good points. I think that Rex will be gone unless he makes the playoffs. Whaley also hinders this team from getting better. He doesn't completely suck, but he continues to trade away our draft picks and sign players to huge contracts that don't appear to be worth the resources.

We would be way better off without these guys.

 

What players are those? Dareus is the only guy that I can think of, but not for lack of talent, maybe Clay, but I think he's underutilized at times, IMO

 

Glenn, Hughes, Incognito and Aaron Williams are well paid players that pull their weight every Sunday. McCoy is expensive but he's a star. TT is on a one year rental with a to be detemined tag, he could still get better.

Whaley determined that Gilmore was not an elite corner and offered him solid NFL CB money instead, he's proven right so far.

 

I left Eric Wood and Kyle Williams out of that list because I believe Whaley was not the guy responsible for those contracts, still very productive guys.

 

We're all mad at Dareus, it's understandable, his pay matches his talent though his future might be in jeopardy if he doesn't mature. Overall I think Whaley is good at assesing value to the talent drafted/signed.

[NastyNateSoldiers]

First off, Dallas lost Tony Romo after four games and they had no adequate backup plan at QB as Matt Cassell went 1-6, Kellen Moore went 0-2, Branden Weeden went 0-3 and only Romo did anything at 3-1. So their problem in its entirety was at quarterback! This year they are starting a rookie at QB after Romo went on IR and because he is winning the team is 7-1!

 

Baltimore lost a couple of players? How about a record setting 19 players on IR and before QB Joe Flacco went on IR he was playing injured for most of the 10 games he played in as the team went 3-7 under him. Alas, this was another team with bad backup QB problems. Ryan Mallett 1-1, Jimmy Clausen 0-2, Matt Schaub 1-1.

 

 

The Buffalo Bills have had QB Tyrod Taylor the entire year and he isn't nursing any injuries. The main problem with Buffalo is that they are a run first team that is primarily dependent on one particular running back to be able to make that run game work or should I say even attempt to make their run game work! When the Buffalo run game isn't working the entire offense and defense don't play as well. The 2016 Buffalo Bills offense is basically one dimensional and run first teams usually don't win many games without a stout defense to help them out.

 

This goes on to point out that if Bill Belichick were the Buffalo Bills head coach he wouldn't even attempt to enter a season as one dimensional as the Bills currently are on offense. The Patriots don't have as much talent on defense as the Bills have and I could see the defense so much better under him because he adapts and schemes his defenses to fit each opponent each week. He doesn't run the same lame scheme week after week while taking away players from one area to bolster another area like the Bills have done the last two seasons.

 

Lastly, the 2015 Patriots lost their starting RB in Dion Lewis after 6 games who was tearing things up at 4.8 YPC while also being a big threat out of the backfield. The Patriots then went to Blount, White, and Boulden to take up the slack. ( it pays to have solid depth) The Patriots also lost their starting star possession receiver in Julian Edelman after 9 games who Brady always looked to for a first down. The Patriots entire offensive line was in disarray most of the season as we all saw in that second game against Buffalo with Brady screaming at his linemen on the sidelines. No Patriots O-linemen went on to play a full 16 games

 

On the defensive side Jerod Mayo only played in 8 games, Jamie Collins played in 12 games as did Dont'a Hightower only played in 12 games. Ryan, Chung and McCourty each played in 14 games.

 

Injuries are just an excuse Bills fans embrace to feed their denial about their 4-5 team. Rex Ryan has 7 games to go to prove he is worth keeping! The 2016 Buffalo Bills could finish 11-5... or what's more likely is 7-9 because Ryan's defense can't seem to slow down even average QB's.

People should be kicked off this board for using Patriots as example, lol. Cmon Brady, Brady, Brady and more Brady do we have Brady? Having a true Franchise QB can really mask alot of injures or lack of depth on any team. BTW what happened to the mighty Bill Belicheck when we came into town without his savior playing.. 16-0 that's what happened boy he had his guys ready to go!

[Nihilarian]

People should be kicked off this board for using Patriots as example, lol. Cmon Brady, Brady, Brady and more Brady do we have Brady? Having a true Franchise QB can really mask alot of injures or lack of depth on any team. BTW what happened to the mighty Bill Belicheck when we came into town without his savior playing.. 16-0 that's what happened boy he had his guys ready to go!

Horsehockey!! The Atlanta Falcons currently have one of the hottest franchise QB's in the NFL this year who leads all QB's in yards and might be the NFC team in the SB this year. Yet, in 2013 that same franchise QB was 4-12 due to the Falcons being ravaged by injuries that season.

 

While I agree that Brady is looking like the GOAT at this point. I also saw the Bills defense doing a pretty good number on him in 2015 in that second game and so much so we saw him screaming at his O-linemen in that game. It was the Bills offense that let them down in that game in only scoring 13 points to the Patriots 20 points.

 

This season in their first game against NE the Bills faced the Patriots injured third-string rookie QB who had great difficulty in even completing a pass and is a big reason as to why the Patriots never scored in that game. It was either start that injured QB or WR Julian Edelman at QB that day. Not a great feat to boast of by any means.

 

I merely mentioned the Patriots because they are in the division and I pay attention to that team over most others.

 

 

All NFL teams suffer injuries every year and it's a tribute to the GM and coaching staff to have adequate depth to keep winning games. This year Minnesota lost their franchise QB in Teddy Bridgewater and went out and traded for another QB. They are 5-3 and have nine players on IR. Houston is currently 5-3 and they lost their superstar DE JJ Watt for the year and have 11 players on IR. The Ravens are currently 5-4 and have 14 players on IR! The Lions are 5-4 and have 9 players on IR.

 

 

More to the point is that the 2016 Buffalo Bills are losing games due to some bad play by their defense. This last game against Seattle the team was so worried about the Seahawks run game that they let Russell Wilson move the ball all over the field in that first half.

 

In the Miami game, the were dominated on both sides of the lines and allowed an unknown RB to rush for 214yards!! The Jets game the defense was owned by Fitz and their RB Matt Forte as Fitz threw for 374 and Forte 3 rushing TD's yjr ZJets put up almost 500 yards of offense on Buffalos defense. The Bills win those two division games and they are 6-3 with a real shot at the playoffs this year!!

 

Bottom line here is the defense was supposed to be a strength the last two years under a HC noted to be a defensive genius and it's just not!

[NastyNateSoldiers]

Name me the 9 players on IR for Baltimore. As far as I can see they still have there key guys Flacco, Smith, Wallace , Stanley, Suggs and Yanda even though he missed the last gm. Hou is missing Watt but that's it not to mention those teams schedule is cake compared to what we've seen so far.

Nobody is arguing here that no one has injures but the argument is nobody has suffered injuries to key positions as much as us. We are missing Pro bowl caliber guys for weeks at a time. Cordy, McCoy,Sammy,A Will & Dareus have missed a combined 20gms not only that but we were down to street guys playing wr for us.

Last yr we were missing Kyle, Aaron, Gilmore, McCoy, Karlos, Tyrod, Sammy and many others for multiple games. We haven't had our core guys together since week 3 of last yr.. I'm talking core injuries here not your 4th string special teams player

[GunnerBill]

 

What players are those? Dareus is the only guy that I can think of, but not for lack of talent, maybe Clay, but I think he's underutilized at times, IMO

 

Glenn, Hughes, Incognito and Aaron Williams are well paid players that pull their weight every Sunday. McCoy is expensive but he's a star. TT is on a one year rental with a to be detemined tag, he could still get better.

Whaley determined that Gilmore was not an elite corner and offered him solid NFL CB money instead, he's proven right so far.

 

I left Eric Wood and Kyle Williams out of that list because I believe Whaley was not the guy responsible for those contracts, still very productive guys.

 

We're all mad at Dareus, it's understandable, his pay matches his talent though his future might be in jeopardy if he doesn't mature. Overall I think Whaley is good at assesing value to the talent drafted/signed.

This. Well said Fixxer.

 

The two bad Whaley "big" contracts for me are Clay (good player but paid like a star) and the Harvin deal last year (overrated his whole career).

 

The rest of his big deals he has got right.

 

Bill is very anti-Whaley and has set out his reasons before. I don't think Whaley is perfect but I think he and Nix before him have built pretty talented rosters. Whaley's biggest fault was not putting his foot down when the Pegulas wanted to hire the Salesman as Head Coach.

[nuklz2594]

i think he will coach next year. imo...everyone is waiting for defensive genius of the ryans to finally show up. i remember the entire league saying our defense would be historic. still waiting............

[Nihilarian]

Name me the 9 players on IR for Baltimore. As far as I can see they still have there key guys Flacco, Smith, Wallace , Stanley, Suggs and Yanda even though he missed the last gm. Hou is missing Watt but that's it not to mention those teams schedule is cake compared to what we've seen so far.

Nobody is arguing here that no one has injures but the argument is nobody has suffered injuries to key positions as much as us. We are missing Pro bowl caliber guys for weeks at a time. Cordy, McCoy,Sammy,A Will & Dareus have missed a combined 20gms not only that but we were down to street guys playing wr for us.

Last yr we were missing Kyle, Aaron, Gilmore, McCoy, Karlos, Tyrod, Sammy and many others for multiple games. We haven't had our core guys together since week 3 of last yr.. I'm talking core injuries here not your 4th string special teams player

Again, my key point is it's the defense that has let the team down in several games more than any other factor. The Bills are missing Dareus the entire season so far and Aaron Williams was injured in the Miami game which was three games ago. The Bills are leading the league in sacks this year so missing Dareus isn't as a big a deal as some would believe. Last year the Bills stomped the Colts in the opener without Dareus.

 

The Bills lost to the Ravens in the opener because the couldn't rush for more than 65 yards or pass for more than 111 and this is a big reason as to why the Bills OC was fired after week two. Yes, Cordy Glenn missed this game and the Bills only gave up 2 sacks so his loss wasn't that much of a detriment. Both LeSean McCoy and Sammy Watkins played in this game so injuries on the offensive side weren't that big a factor!

 

 

However, in week two the Bills offense scored 31 points and it was the defense that let the team down by allowing Ryan Fitzpatrick to pass for 374 yards and Forte to rush for 123 yards. This was an absolute failure of the defense to stop the Jets on the ground or in the air! If the HC is going to fire assistant coaches for failure then what defensive coach should have been fired for allowing that fiasco to happen? The NY Jets currently are a 3-6, 173 PF-235 PA bad team. Aaron Williams played in this game and yet the defense stunk it up. His injury is not an excuse because the defense had played poorly in several games before his injury in week 7.

 

Week 7 against the Dolphins both sides of the Bills lines were manhandled by a 4-4 172 PF-182 PA Dolphins team that had a RB that rushed for 214 yards. Jay Ajayi had just rushed for 252 yards the previous week against that Steelers defense and the Dolphins put up a 30 burger! So someone on the Buffalo Bills coaching staff should have stood up and taken notice so the defense could have prepared for him! The Bills defense only managed one sack on Tannehill and although he didn't put up great numbers in the air he pretty much was successful throwing it against that Bills secondary.

 

Russell Wilson had no passing TD's and only put up 20 points on a crappy New Orleans defense that is ranked 30th in both points and yards the week previous to playing Buffalo. Yet against the Bills, he threw at will that first half. Wilson rushed for one TD and threw for two more before the half.

 

Bad schemes, a lack of preparation and the lack of making adjustments during some games is what's killing this defense this year. We saw this last year too. You can make the excuse for the injuries but it just doesn't fly as the Bills lost two division games this year against scrub teams that they should have beaten!

 

 

Speaking of last years injuries. The Bills beat the Jets soundly in that last regular season game in 2015 by intercepted Fitz 3 times and held him to under 200 yards passing. He was 16 of 37 for 181. And that was without Gilmore, Aaron Williams and Kyle Williams on defense and without LeSean McCoy on offense.

Edited November 13, 2016 by Nihilarian

[Manther]

 

And me. The roster is decent - not perfect but decent - the problem has been using the talent effectively. I don't know where people think all this bursting deep rosters are, because when I look at the league I don't see them. We were down to our 3rd choice NT starter on Monday night and gave up just 33 yards rushing. We have two areas where we are really thin - receiver and safety. As the law of averages would have it we have suffered injuries at both spots.

Agreed!

[8-8 Forever?]

 

So essentially we will be a one-sided team who is always up and down, never making the playoffs and a perpetual 6-10 or 7-9 team.

 

RIDICULOUS. Status quo to prevent change for mediocrity is wrong.

you said that, not me.

 

Defense and Offense both look pretty good to me, considering the injuries at key positions.. Sacks are way up, turnovers are way up. D is great. We gave up, what, 7 rushing yards? R Wilson is a top 5 QB. and we were 7 yds from this entire conversation being completely different. Ripping this up for next year or year after that; now that is RIDICULOUS. The CBA heavily , heavily penalizes teams with new coaches and schemes. Practice time is nearly gone in the offseason. If Rex goes, his ENTIRE staff goes as well and you are starting from Square One with who? No top coach will have anything to do with living in WNY. Rex is the first NFL calibre coach this franchise has had in my lifetime. And you want to toss him out? and replace him with who? who? Cowher? won't come. any other big name? won't come. We'll be back to college guys and Dick Jaurons. Rex made a great call getting rid of Roman. gutsy. and it worked. we have the most talented roster we've had in 15 - 20 years. OK , great , lets blow up the best roster we've had in 15 years to fit some new coaching staffs brand new, gotta-go-learn-em all from scratch with no practice time schemes? RIDICULOUS. now that's RIDICULOUS.

[#34fan]

What's improved??? We currently have a losing record overall, AND within the division.... We're top 5 in penalties league-wide AGAIN... Oh wait, that's right, -The secondary has taken a giant step BACK from last season... If we lose vs MIA Rex should get canned before he hits the tunnel.

[Formerly Allan in MD]

Why make a change? When mediocrity rules, you don't want to rock the boat. Next season, we can have this discussion again, as we seem to every year. It's a Buffalo thing.

[Virgil]

To the whole "who are you going to replace him with crowd"....

 

Usually it's the next up and coming coordinator or whatever head coach got fired for not getting their team over the jump. There's hardly ever a super bowl winning coach just hanging out without a job. It's always a risk.

 

I know he's not looking great right now, but IF they do fire him, here's my number one

 

Jim Schwartz, under the condition of keeping Lynn. I think he would be a good fit and the easiest transition. Has the background and players liked him.

[Nihilarian]

To the whole "who are you going to replace him with crowd"....

 

Usually it's the next up and coming coordinator or whatever head coach got fired for not getting their team over the jump. There's hardly ever a super bowl winning coach just hanging out without a job. It's always a risk.

 

I know he's not looking great right now, but IF they do fire him, here's my number one

 

Jim Schwartz, under the condition of keeping Lynn. I think he would be a good fit and the easiest transition. Has the background and players liked him.

Ryan does have 7 games to get his defense on track and if Tyrod plays like he did against the Hawks, McCoy stays healthy while Sammy returns the Bills could make a run for the playoffs. Lots "O" ifs in there! OTOH, the team could win only the games against the bad QB's like usual and that might mean 4 wins. 8-8

 

At this point, it might be better to hire some scrub HC you know will fail so that the team can finally get a shot at a real franchise QB in the draft after next year. The entire problem has been that the team mired in mediocrity for the last decade and never bottomed out. Enough of this 4-12, 6-10, 7-9, 8-8 or even 9-7 crap! 10 wins might not be enough to get the Bills in a playoff game at this point in the AFC.

[NastyNateSoldiers]

Again, my key point is it's the defense that has let the team down in several games more than any other factor. The Bills are missing Dareus the entire season so far and Aaron Williams was injured in the Miami game which was three games ago. The Bills are leading the league in sacks this year so missing Dareus isn't as a big a deal as some would believe. Last year the Bills stomped the Colts in the opener without Dareus.

 

The Bills lost to the Ravens in the opener because the couldn't rush for more than 65 yards or pass for more than 111 and this is a big reason as to why the Bills OC was fired after week two. Yes, Cordy Glenn missed this game and the Bills only gave up 2 sacks so his loss wasn't that much of a detriment. Both LeSean McCoy and Sammy Watkins played in this game so injuries on the offensive side weren't that big a factor!

 

 

However, in week two the Bills offense scored 31 points and it was the defense that let the team down by allowing Ryan Fitzpatrick to pass for 374 yards and Forte to rush for 123 yards. This was an absolute failure of the defense to stop the Jets on the ground or in the air! If the HC is going to fire assistant coaches for failure then what defensive coach should have been fired for allowing that fiasco to happen? The NY Jets currently are a 3-6, 173 PF-235 PA bad team. Aaron Williams played in this game and yet the defense stunk it up. His injury is not an excuse because the defense had played poorly in several games before his injury in week 7.

 

Week 7 against the Dolphins both sides of the Bills lines were manhandled by a 4-4 172 PF-182 PA Dolphins team that had a RB that rushed for 214 yards. Jay Ajayi had just rushed for 252 yards the previous week against that Steelers defense and the Dolphins put up a 30 burger! So someone on the Buffalo Bills coaching staff should have stood up and taken notice so the defense could have prepared for him! The Bills defense only managed one sack on Tannehill and although he didn't put up great numbers in the air he pretty much was successful throwing it against that Bills secondary.

 

Russell Wilson had no passing TD's and only put up 20 points on a crappy New Orleans defense that is ranked 30th in both points and yards the week previous to playing Buffalo. Yet against the Bills, he threw at will that first half. Wilson rushed for one TD and threw for two more before the half.

 

Bad schemes, a lack of preparation and the lack of making adjustments during some games is what's killing this defense this year. We saw this last year too. You can make the excuse for the injuries but it just doesn't fly as the Bills lost two division games this year against scrub teams that they should have beaten!

 

 

Speaking of last years injuries. The Bills beat the Jets soundly in that last regular season game in 2015 by intercepted Fitz 3 times and held him to under 200 yards passing. He was 16 of 37 for 181. And that was without Gilmore, Aaron Williams and Kyle Williams on defense and without LeSean McCoy on offense.

U can't just pop out stats and say we weren't missing Dareus and Cordy in those gms. Cordy left the Baltimore gm after our only TD of the gm our running gm suffered and we also had to keep Clay in to block.

With Dareus playing we could possibly have 40sks instead of 30 and I guarantee Miami doesn't run all over us with him playing. Losing your franchise left tackle and franchise DT does have an effect on what we can do.

[Nihilarian]

U can't just pop out stats and say we weren't missing Dareus and Cordy in those gms. Cordy left the Baltimore gm after our only TD of the gm our running gm suffered and we also had to keep Clay in to block.

With Dareus playing we could possibly have 40sks instead of 30 and I guarantee Miami doesn't run all over us with him playing. Losing your franchise left tackle and franchise DT does have an effect on what we can do.

What I didn't see was a huge dropoff in play with Kouandjio in there at LT and he is more of a pass protector while Incognito is the pulling guard / run blocker. The Bills offense couldn't run or pass very well that day and I think it had more to do with that Ravens defense that's currently ranked #4 overall than the team missing one player. Tyrod going 15 of 122,0,0 and Shady going 16 for 58, 1

 

Even in his best year Dareus only had 10 sacks all season (2014) So, I highly doubt he would add 10 more this year in 8 games. He only had two sacks in all of last year while playing in 15 games under Rex Ryan.

 

Yes, the Bills miss Dareus and Aaron Williams but just not to the extent that those two players would be the sole reasons for losing a game or why the defense is currently only average. The Bills defense was just as bad last year with him playing and the team lost games with Aaron Williams playing this year. Like I mentioned that near 500 yards of offense to the lowly 3-6 NY Jets with Williams in the secondary.

 

Plus, the Bills just shut down the Seahawks run game who only had 12 rushes for 33 yards with a 2.8 yard per carry without Dareus.

 

NFL teams are always missing players due to injury and the good teams keep winning games. The bad teams make excuses. We could go on like this forever because the team will always be missing players at various positions and when they lose Bills fans will always make excuses for the team. If you care to believe that the Bills aren't winning games due to injuries that's your prerogative. I think it's more of defenses failure in two key games (Miami & Jets) and in my view, it was more lack of preparation and bad game plans. That's all on the defensive coaching staff.

[Bill from NYC]

The two bad Whaley "big" contracts for me are Clay (good player but paid like a star) and the Harvin deal last year (overrated his whole career).

 

The rest of his big deals he has got right.

He paid too much for Shady when he did not have to. And at this point (I readily admit this could hopefully change) I don't like the trade-up for Watkins. I said it when he made this deal that a serious injury would be a huge risk. Sammy is very good but he isn't a quarterback or Von Miller.

Whaley trades away crucial resources and overpays. He also tried to re-sign Byrd and Spiller. I think he lacks discipline.

 

This of course is jmo.

[Augie]

He paid too much for Shady when he did not have to. And at this point (I readily admit this could hopefully change) I don't like the trade-up for Watkins. I said it when he made this deal that a serious injury would be a huge risk. Sammy is very good but he isn't a quarterback or Von Miller.Whaley trades away crucial resources and overpays. He also tried to re-sign Byrd and Spiller. I think he lacks discipline.This of course is jmo.

But he drew the line and didn't cross it in those cases. I thought Watkins was probably worth it, if not for the injuries that were hard to foresee given a basically healthy background. The Shady deal? I can't explain that, but you win some and you lose some...

[C.Biscuit97]

There was a report that the the Jets coach before Bowles used to let the players go to strip clubs/ bars after bedche k before games.

 

So that's a huge pro from the players for Rex.

[Virgil]

He paid too much for Shady when he did not have to. And at this point (I readily admit this could hopefully change) I don't like the trade-up for Watkins. I said it when he made this deal that a serious injury would be a huge risk. Sammy is very good but he isn't a quarterback or Von Miller.

Whaley trades away crucial resources and overpays. He also tried to re-sign Byrd and Spiller. I think he lacks discipline.

 

This of course is jmo.

 

You should say Mack, since we actually passed on him and never had a chance at Von.

 

When we traded up, I was hoping it would be Mack.

[Nihilarian]

He paid too much for Shady when he did not have to. And at this point (I readily admit this could hopefully change) I don't like the trade-up for Watkins. I said it when he made this deal that a serious injury would be a huge risk. Sammy is very good but he isn't a quarterback or Von Miller.

Whaley trades away crucial resources and overpays. He also tried to re-sign Byrd and Spiller. I think he lacks discipline.

 

This of course is jmo.

The Bills paid too much for Shady, Watkins, Clay, Mario because they failed to find that talent in the draft.

 

Shady and older RB with a lot of miles on him and he is still a premier RB in the league when 100% healthy! Cap hit worth it as he makes this run first teams offense work.

 

Watkins is precisely why other teams don't overspend on what they think is a superior talent in the draft. Because an injury will make all those resources seem wasted on one player. It's particularly damning because the team didn't even have their established franchise QB to throw to that elite WR! Not to mention that the team just hired a head coach that had said "we will run Spiller so much he will throw up" in meaning the team's coaches were building a run first offense.

 

Also, just after the draft word came from the Bills FO that after they used 3 picks on a WR the team still needed that big, tall WR red zone threat. this makes me wonder why they didn't draft Mike Evans. This entire scenario was like a bunch of kids in a toy store just wanting the shiniest toy on the shelf without thinking of all the ramifications involved.

 

Clay, the team clearly overpaid for an oft-injured tight end who really isn't as good as his salary suggests. He looked to be a great prospect with 103 receptions in 2013 and 84 in 2014. He did have 77 catches in Buffalo last season but the guy is just not the game changer the team thought they were getting. Currently the 97th best receiver in yards.

 

Mario was good for a time but he never put the defense over the hump until Schwartz took over the defense.

 

The team is also paying huge money for Marcell Dareus and he is looking like he doesn't want to play in Buffalo anymore. The team wouldn't even have Richie Incognito or Tyrod Taylor on the roster if it weren't for Rex. Not to mention that had Spiller signed in Buffalo it would have been an enormous waste of money. The player depth at many positions stinks!

 

If Rex Ryan goes then Whaley deserves to go along with him! I just hope that if that happens the new owners realize that they need to hire some senior NFL advisers to make the choices for them.