GunnerBill Posted November 6, 2016 Posted November 6, 2016 TANK - I agree all those years have been horrible. But how does you being down on a rookie 4th round QB who hasn't even played yet change any of that? I would submit that it doesn't. You have a right to be down on the organisation and you can even believe Cardale is not the guy (you are more than likely right) but attacking fans who think he has a shot does nothing to change the history or the future.
3rdand12 Posted November 6, 2016 Posted November 6, 2016 TANK - I agree all those years have been horrible. But how does you being down on a rookie 4th round QB who hasn't even played yet change any of that? I would submit that it doesn't. You have a right to be down on the organisation and you can even believe Cardale is not the guy (you are more than likely right) but attacking fans who think he has a shot does nothing to change the history or the future. Oh sure, with the snarkiness. I should report you, for something. Lets see....
TANK2 Posted November 6, 2016 Posted November 6, 2016 (edited) TANK - I agree all those years have been horrible. But how does you being down on a rookie 4th round QB who hasn't even played yet change any of that? I would submit that it doesn't. You have a right to be down on the organisation and you can even believe Cardale is not the guy (you are more than likely right) but attacking fans who think he has a shot does nothing to change the history or the future. Im not down on him. He is what he is. A 4th rounder who got benched his senior year. Its highly unlikely he's our savior. Hope Im wrong. No need to correct my english, btw, Im sure I missed plenty of apostrophes and maybe even mispelled a word or two. At my age I really dont care anymore. Just want to see this team win a superbowl and see the sabres win a cup before I die. I do have confidence in the Pegulas. I think they will get it done. Edited November 6, 2016 by TANK2
Maury Ballstein Posted November 6, 2016 Posted November 6, 2016 (edited) Talk about having nothing. Its delusional btw, not delisional. Tell us more about english, Enstein. Might want to learn how to spell before giving english lessons.I learned the word delisional from you. Stay w the joke buddy. Blame Cardale. Edited November 6, 2016 by Ryan L Billz
3rdand12 Posted November 6, 2016 Posted November 6, 2016 Im not down on him. He is what he is. A 4th rounder who got benched his senior year. Its highly unlikely he's our savior. Hope Im wrong. No need to correct my english, btw, Im sure I missed plenty of apostrophes and maybe even mispelled a word or two. At my age I really dont care anymore. reasonable take.
TSOL Posted November 6, 2016 Posted November 6, 2016 Ok, so whether we draft a QB first overall, a no brainer, one of the greats types, like a Wentz (presumably) or a Cam Newton, one of those type of guys. Or if we draft a fourth round prospect, you still need the structure in place to put him in the position to succeed. You need a good team, and good to great coaching. The best QB's have solid support systems behind them. They need a QB coach, and offensive coordinator that works with them to put them in the best possible position. This is a huge part of what our team, the Bills, have been lacking. Cardale isnt going to succeed if we keep up with a revolving door of coordinators and coaching. He wont succeed if we throw him to the wolves with no support, like they did with EJ. They gave EJ very few tools, terrible coaching that didnt believe in him enough to stick with him and work with him. And just bailed on him and wrote him off after a handful of games. With EJ it was like the coaching staff didnt want him from the start and pulled the plug on him so early, almost as if they resigned themselves to the fact that he will never be good enough. Now since then, what have we had? 2-3 QB's that just arent good enough, including Taylor. Guys who might have a slightly different skillset than him, but ARE NO BETTER. Despite what you all read on here, Taylor, Orton, Cassell, Kolb... Are NO BETTER THAN EJ. If the team committs to the QB position, gets an amazing QB coach that can truly develop a young QB and puts him in the position to succeed, Cardale CAN succeed. But, if the organization is going to only worry about big splash trades for luxery pics like a fancy WR, or big name, overpaid DE, instead of focusing on cultivating the most important position in the game, then Cardale will fizzel out like the rest of them. Basically, what im saying, is coaching is really important, find a QB guru, and draft some good dang offensive linemen, once in awhile. And do not worry about starting Cardale Jones anytime soon. Im not saying Cardale will beanygood orbad, im saying under thiscurrent structure, hes gonna die out there.
TANK2 Posted November 6, 2016 Posted November 6, 2016 I learned the word delisional from you. Stay w the joke buddy. Blame Cardale. Yawn. Still nothing. This is getting boring.
BuffaloBillsMagic1 Posted November 6, 2016 Posted November 6, 2016 Having watched him at OSU and I n a few preseason games he can step up in the pocket and fire the ball. Something that is lacking with our other two. He just needs reps and time to develop as he has the tools
TANK2 Posted November 6, 2016 Posted November 6, 2016 Lets switch gears Ryan. Tell me what myself and thirty one other NFL teams who didnt pick jones roughly 130 picks before we did are missing. I would love to know what you know that all those scouts and GMs dont because he clearly would have gone earlier if they knew what you do.
Blokestradamus Posted November 6, 2016 Posted November 6, 2016 The best QB's have solid support systems behind them. They need a QB coach, and offensive coordinator that works with them to put them in the best possible position. This is a huge part of what our team, the Bills, have been lacking. Cardale isnt going to succeed if we keep up with a revolving door of coordinators and coaching. He wont succeed if we throw him to the wolves with no support, like they did with EJ. This is the absolute crux of the issue and why I'm almost completely convinced Cardale won't pan out. I have absolutely no faith in David Lee teaching him. I've not seen anything in Lee's past that I can look to as assurance that Cardale will make the significant strides necessary to become a starting calibre quarterback. We've seen at the college level that Tom Herman put together a game plan for Cardale in 2014 that he was capable of executing. Granted, half of that was just letting Zeke run the holy crap over everyone but he called plays that Cardale could execute. He's shown himself to be coachable and willing to take instruction. I just worry that he'll be getting bad instruction under Lee's mentoring.
TANK2 Posted November 6, 2016 Posted November 6, 2016 Ill even concede that you are far more intelligent than I am and that your english skills are infinitely superior. So lets hear it.
3rdand12 Posted November 6, 2016 Posted November 6, 2016 This is the absolute crux of the issue and why I'm almost completely convinced Cardale won't pan out. I have absolutely no faith in David Lee teaching him. I've not seen anything in Lee's past that I can look to as assurance that Cardale will make the significant strides necessary to become a starting calibre quarterback. We've seen at the college level that Tom Herman put together a game plan for Cardale in 2014 that he was capable of executing. Granted, half of that was just letting Zeke run the holy crap over everyone but he called plays that Cardale could execute. He's shown himself to be coachable and willing to take instruction. I just worry that he'll be getting bad instruction under Lee's mentoring. This has been Buffalo's true curse. Developing QBs
TSOL Posted November 6, 2016 Posted November 6, 2016 Well, we been focusing on defense for what, 5 years now? And im afraid were going to be focusing on defense again next year.
TANK2 Posted November 6, 2016 Posted November 6, 2016 This has been Buffalo's true curse. Developing QBs Its actually the curse of the league. So many bad qbs and sinking ratings due to so many unwatchable games.
Blokestradamus Posted November 6, 2016 Posted November 6, 2016 (edited) This has been Buffalo's true curse. Developing QBs I know it's popular to call the draft a crapshoot for QBs (maybe because it makes us feel better for not having one) but I think a lot of teams fail from the outset and make the process near impossible. The worst thing to this process is indecision. If I had the chance at being a GM, I'd get three things sorted before drafting a QB. 1) Develop a clear idea of the type of offense I want for my team. Identity helps everything flows when the real decisions start. 2) Hire a head coach and/or offensive coordinator that believe in the same principles as I do. Cohesion should ease any friction further down the road. 3) Identity a select few traits that you want in your QB. At the very least, know which route combinations will become your staples and scout accordingly. Your process might be flawed. As a GM, you likely never get a second chance so go down your own way. You might go down in a ball of flames but, if you keep on moving the goal posts every year on what you're building, you're bound to fail anyway. How that great Seahawks defense was built was on these same principles. I believe every great team has to follow these kinds of ideals. Edited November 6, 2016 by Blokestradamus
3rdand12 Posted November 6, 2016 Posted November 6, 2016 I know it's popular to call the draft a crapshoot for QBs (maybe because it makes us feel better for not having one) but I think a lot of teams fail from the outset and make the process near impossible. The worst thing to this process is indecision. If I had the chance at being a GM, I'd get three things sorted before drafting a QB. 1) Develop a clear idea of the type of offense I want for my team. Identity helps everything flows when the real decisions start. 2) Hire a head coach and/or offensive coordinator that believe in the same principles as I do. Cohesion should ease any friction further down the road. 3) Identity a select few traits that you want in your QB. At the very least, know which route combinations will become your staples and scout accordingly. Your process might be flawed. As a GM, you likely never get a second chance so go down your own way. You might go down in a ball of flames but, if you keep on moving the goal posts every year on what you're building, you're bound to fail anyway. How that great Seahawks defense was built was on these same principles. I believe every great team has to follow these kinds of ideals. I agree. But in the revenue driven NFL it ain't easy to create a culture and stay the course. I was speaking mostly to the lack of QBing in Buffalo. We have so many flame out quickly. I don't mind drafting each year, but i want a consistent program in place. And I think that does come down from the GM. Folks may not like David Lee and Co. But I think ya gotta stick with this program a abit longer. team is better as a whole then last year In my opinion. Not great but making progress
GunnerBill Posted November 6, 2016 Posted November 6, 2016 Im not down on him. He is what he is. A 4th rounder who got benched his senior year. Its highly unlikely he's our savior. Hope Im wrong. No need to correct my english, btw, Im sure I missed plenty of apostrophes and maybe even mispelled a word or two. At my age I really dont care anymore. Just want to see this team win a superbowl and see the sabres win a cup before I die. I do have confidence in the Pegulas. I think they will get it done. Wasn't defending the snide comments about your English. They were uncalled for.
Blokestradamus Posted November 6, 2016 Posted November 6, 2016 I agree. But in the revenue driven NFL it ain't easy to create a culture and stay the course. I was speaking mostly to the lack of QBing in Buffalo. We have so many flame out quickly. I don't mind drafting each year, but i want a consistent program in place. And I think that does come down from the GM. Folks may not like David Lee and Co. But I think ya gotta stick with this program a abit longer. team is better as a whole then last year In my opinion. Not great but making progress You Americans don't know how easy you've got it. Shared revenue, no relegation, an implied 3-year waiting period to see how picks/coaches pan out. I think with Lee being a cog in the wheel, the process is fundamentally flawed. Even looking at the kind of guys Rex has had at QB before to the guys Whaley had a hand in picking, I'm not seeing a lot of cohesion on that front. Everyone knows I'm a Whaley fan but, if this all falls apart at some point, starting afresh with the ideals I laid out early is something to strive for.
Dragonborn10 Posted November 6, 2016 Posted November 6, 2016 Judging from OTA's and training camp about half way through the play book
GunnerBill Posted November 6, 2016 Posted November 6, 2016 You Americans don't know how easy you've got it. Shared revenue, no relegation, an implied 3-year waiting period to see how picks/coaches pan out. Indeed. And the rareity of coaches being sacked "in season". I don't know if that happens more in the other US sports where there are more games? But if you are in the second highest league in English soccer now as a Head Coach your average reign expectancy is 14 months.
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