GunnerBill Posted November 2, 2016 Posted November 2, 2016 It's nice to see that Andy Benoit has some similar philosophies as I do. I've mentioned it with Jordan Mills before; bad process will eventually lead to bad results. I'm not sold on Carr as a franchise QB but I know a few Raider fans who are absolutely certain he is. He's certainly been a better pro than I anticipated after watching him at Fresno. I think Carr is right on the cusp of being a franchise QB. I am less concerned by Quarterback mechanics than you seem Blokes. I don't believe in a "textbook" Quarterback. I look at the top guys they get it done different ways. Carr may not have perfect mechanics but he shown an ability to get the ball where it needs to be. What was your QB ranking in 2014 Blokes? You had Teddy as a slam dunk top of the 1st guy.... what about the others?
Blokestradamus Posted November 2, 2016 Posted November 2, 2016 (edited) I think Carr is right on the cusp of being a franchise QB. I am less concerned by Quarterback mechanics than you seem Blokes. I don't believe in a "textbook" Quarterback. I look at the top guys they get it done different ways. Carr may not have perfect mechanics but he shown an ability to get the ball where it needs to be. What was your QB ranking in 2014 Blokes? You had Teddy as a slam dunk top of the 1st guy.... what about the others? The talk of process is less about mechanics as it is the issue with reads that Benoit brings up. Staying with bad ones too long, getting off good ones too quickly. I know it's a tough thing to get right every time but I think it's what differentiates good from great. Hopefully for Derek, it'll come with experience. I probably should make the distinction between mental and physical/technical process. My top-10 2014 QBs: 1) Teddy 2) Mettenberger (shut up, I know the mistake I made there ) 3) Carr 4) Murray 5) Bortles 6) Garoppolo 7) Manziel (would've been UDFA if I had actually dug into his history) 8) Keith Wenning 9) McCarron 10) The legend of Wyoming himself, Brett Smith Edited November 2, 2016 by Blokestradamus
Big Turk Posted November 2, 2016 Posted November 2, 2016 He just threw for 513 yards against Tampa Bay.... Over or under...in the next 3 games Tyrod will throw for 513 yards total.
Bookie Man Posted November 2, 2016 Posted November 2, 2016 I was jealous watching that Tampa Bay game
YoloinOhio Posted November 2, 2016 Posted November 2, 2016 Another good read on this player http://www.qbmecca.com/derek-carr-lofty-expectations/
Blokestradamus Posted November 2, 2016 Posted November 2, 2016 Another good read on this player http://www.qbmecca.com/derek-carr-lofty-expectations/ I just popped in this thread to post that link. From a not-Derek or Derrick but Derrik too, very approprate for the thread.
YoloinOhio Posted November 2, 2016 Posted November 2, 2016 I just popped in this thread to post that link. From a not-Derek or Derrick but Derrik too, very approprate for the thread. very interesting analysis. Does he do these for every QB?
Blokestradamus Posted November 2, 2016 Posted November 2, 2016 very interesting analysis. Does he do these for every QB? I think Derrik is a bit like me when it comes to focusing on players. Doesn't cover everyone or everything, just when he feels passionately pro or anti something. He did one on Tyrod in the offseason that I posted here. He's a smart kid, I think he's still only 18-19 years old too.
Guest K-GunJimKelly12 Posted November 2, 2016 Posted November 2, 2016 Bills QB's drafted since the drought has started: J.P. Losman 2004, 1st round, 22nd overall Trent Edwards, 3rd round, 92nd overall Levi Brown, 7th round, 209th overall E.J. Manuel 1st round, 16th overall Cardale Jones 4th round, 139th overall We have drafted 5 QB's during this drought. Less than one every 3 years. Oh, we needed a RT, we needed a CB, we needed a WR, blah blah blah blah blah. Same old tune for 16 years. When are, people going to figure it out, all those great players you draft to fill your positions of need will come and go in due process because you don’t have a QUARTERBACK!!!!! I wish the fans but more importantly the front office could figure this out too. We gave up the 9th overall pick, plus a 1st and 4th the following year to get Sammy Watkins. Now we are 2 years away from watching him come and go in due process because we couldn't find a quarterback. Tell me about how we needed this position or that position, please tell me that as we pass on another QB and call in hindsight when these guys pan out. We needed that RT position filled so bad that we drafted Cyrus Kouandijo and we almost certainly could have traded our 3rd round pick and that pick to get up and get Derek Carr. If not, how much more would it have taken. Not much more at all I would assume. Derek Carr is just an example. This team simply does not draft enough QB's. I don't know how much clearer it needs to be. This year we were rumored to like Dak Prescott. The Dallas Cowboys drafted him 4 picks before us in the 4th round. The Cowboys had Tony Romo who was 36 and had fractured a vertebra the previous season, forcing to only play 4 games. We weren't worried enough about them taking Prescott so we had to settle for Cardale Jones, a total project. One time we did trade up, and a QB was on the board that a lot of people thought we were going to take. His name was Russell Wilson. But guess what? Ding, ding, ding!!! We had a need! Chan Gailey needed a "water bug" type receiver! So, we passed on Russell Wilson and selected T.J. Graham, who couldn't catch a pass if someone as much as sneezed on him. "Buh but, everyone passed on Russell Wilson." I here this argument all the time and I hate it. Nobody needed a QB as badly as we did and do, nobody. The New England Patriots have Tom Brady; most people would consider him the greatest QB of all time. By 2005 he had would 3 Championships and was regarded as the best QB in the game by many. Quarterbacks the New England Patriots have drafted since 2005: Matt Cassell 2005, 7th round, 230th overall. Kevin O'Connell 2008, 3rd round, 94th overall Zac Robinson 2010, 7th round, 250th overall Ryan Mallett 2011, 3rd round, 74th overall Jimmy Garoppolo 2014, 2nd round, 62nd overall Jacoby Brissett 2016, 3rd round, 91st overall The New England Patriots who have the best QB in NFL history. They have been to 6 Super Bowls and won four of them since the last time the Bills have made the playoffs, and in that time, they drafted more quarterbacks than the Buffalo Bills. They have drafted more quarterbacks since 2005, than the Bills have drafted since 2000. I mean are people seriously going to defend this with the hindsight argument? We just keep on not drafting QB's and claim its hindsight. No, it's lack of foresight. Since the drought has started, we have drafted more 1st round running backs than we have quarterbacks. We drafted C.J. Spiller 9th overall when we had Marshawn Lynch and Fred Jackson on the roster. The play the Buffalo Bills have been getting from their quarterbacks over the last 15 years has been dreadful. Yet the Bills don’t seem to take any extra importance on drafting for that position. In fact, they seem to value it less than other positions. And like I said before, all those great players will come and go in due process just like every great player we have drafted in the last 15 years. Except for Kyle Williams of course. Time to stop acting like we are smarter than everyone else.
GunnerBill Posted November 2, 2016 Posted November 2, 2016 (edited) The talk of process is less about mechanics as it is the issue with reads that Benoit brings up. Staying with bad ones too long, getting off good ones too quickly. I know it's a tough thing to get right every time but I think it's what differentiates good from great. Hopefully for Derek, it'll come with experience. I probably should make the distinction between mental and physical/technical process. My top-10 2014 QBs: 1) Teddy 2) Mettenberger (shut up, I know the mistake I made there ) 3) Carr 4) Murray 5) Bortles 6) Garoppolo 7) Manziel (would've been UDFA if I had actually dug into his history) 8) Keith Wenning 9) McCarron 10) The legend of Wyoming himself, Brett Smith I think Carr still has some room to develop but he is pretty darn good. My QB ratings that year were: 1. Bortles (top 15 player) 2. Bridgewater (low 1st) 3. Carr (high 2nd) 4. McCarron (3rd rounder) 5. Garoppolo (3rd rounder) 6. Manziel (4th rounder) 7. Murray (4th rounder) They were the only ones I graded. Edited November 2, 2016 by GunnerBill
C.Biscuit97 Posted November 3, 2016 Posted November 3, 2016 IIRC, we saw the same approach with different coaches and GMs with Losman and Edwards. This is a big boys' game. If a QB can't handle having competition for his job, he's too mentally weak to be a QB in the NFL! I used to be of the mindset of if you draft a guy, you need to fully commit to them. Both Losman and Manuel had serious flaws but the Bills yanking them around didn't help their development in the slightest. But the Qb position is so important and we haven't had a good one in so long, that just need to draft one if they like him. I don't think TT is a franchise guy but if you can lessen his contract for next year, I'd bring him back and add another qb to the mix. I think Carr still has some room to develop but he is pretty darn good. My QB ratings that year were: 1. Bortles (top 15 player) 2. Bridgewater (low 1st) 3. Carr (high 2nd) 4. McCarron (3rd rounder) 5. Garoppolo (3rd rounder) 6. Manziel (4th rounder) 7. Murray (4th rounder) They were the only ones I graded. I hated Manziel and wouldn't have drafted him. I also thought Bortles was a lot closer to EJ than people made him out to be. I appear to be really wrong on Carr. I bet on his bowl game senior year and he was brutal against USC. But sadly, the Raiders were better at developing a qb than us. They got him 2 former 1st round pick WRs, built a great oline, & stuck with him through mistakes. Las Vegas is going to be very lucky.
GunnerBill Posted November 3, 2016 Posted November 3, 2016 (edited) I hated Manziel and wouldn't have drafted him. I also thought Bortles was a lot closer to EJ than people made him out to be.I hated Manziel too didn't really think he had any chance if transitioning but I thought he was worth a 4th round pick in case some of that magic he had in college could translate to some wins. I think I said a bit Vince Young like (who if he was Manziel's size would never have sniffed the first round). In hindsight his attitude should have marked him down lower. I did see the Bortles - EJ comparison (I was an EJ guy IF the Bills had to draft one in a terrible class in 2013 - I think in that bad starting position they made the right pick it just so happens they really were all jank). I just though Bortles had a more natural pocket presence and aimed the ball less than EJ. I actually thought with both that their chances of success at the NFL level were as gunslingers... pretty much the way Bortles had some 'success' last year. I don't think either is a game manager - don't turn it over, make some key throws and let your defense win it for you because neither is consistently accurate enough on those key tight window throws - though Bortles is more accurate more often than EJ. Edited November 3, 2016 by GunnerBill
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