John from Riverside Posted October 28, 2016 Share Posted October 28, 2016 Like unicorns? Our developmental C. Jones might go very high in this draft Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihilarian Posted October 28, 2016 Share Posted October 28, 2016 It's just such a guessing game because of all of the variables that go into their success/failure. I've noted this before, but when people talk about the success that Wentz and Prescott are having, no one seems to realize the coaching situations theyve landed in. Wentz in Philly has Pederson (HC), Reich (OC), and DeFilippo (QB Coach). ALL of them are former QBs, with Pederson being a former Eagle QB who was there to support McNabb in his development. Prescott in Dallas has Garnett (HC), Linehan (OC), and Wilson (QB Coach). Not only are all of them former QBs, but they were all Dallas Cowboy QBs. And they have an established offensive system that has been built and tweaked over the past 5 years. Then look at Goff. Goes into LA with Fisher, a Defensive based coach. And is developing on the same (slow) pace as the QBs we brought in under similar situations. And that is just one small portion of all the variables that go into making or breaking a QBs career. Great points and agree with it all. It is crazy that some NFL GM's just don't see what they are doing with their high-value draft picks. Now, think about the offense that Doug Whaley expected his first round draft pick to perform in with college coaches in Marrone, Hackett attempting to develop EJ and this with no QB coach at all on the team and no senior NFL QB on the team to help the three QB's on the Bills roster that year in rookies Thaddeus Lewis, Jeff Tuel, EJ Manuel. Not to mention that the team had just allowed their best O-linemen in Andy Levitre to walk away and then attempted to replace a decent OG with complete scrubs in Colin Brown who graded neg -30. before the team dumped him after the first six games and replaced him with another scrub in Doug Legursky. That 2013 Bills O-line graded at 22nd in the league and that was mostly because Glenn graded so high. The rest of the line besides Wood, Glenn stunk! Same can kinda be said for EJ. I'll always wonder how it would have played out if we could have had a vet bridge the gap for a couple years while EJ sat and learned behind an Offensive minded HC and real OC (not Marrone/Hackett). I'm not trying to hold onto lost causes, just find it interesting for the sake of discussion. So yeah! And people wonder why a first round QB prospect didn't pan out... Cleveland has to be the epitome of rookie QB's lost to a crappy scheme with crappy coaches and bad surrounding players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted October 28, 2016 Author Share Posted October 28, 2016 (edited) Great points and agree with it all. It is crazy that some NFL GM's just don't see what they are doing with their high-value draft picks. Now, think about the offense that Doug Whaley expected his first round draft pick to perform in with college coaches in Marrone, Hackett attempting to develop EJ and this with no QB coach at all on the team and no senior NFL QB on the team to help the three QB's on the Bills roster that year in rookies Thaddeus Lewis, Jeff Tuel, EJ Manuel. Well that's not true. Kolb was already signed, and the plan was to roll with him for at least that year if not 2. No one knew he was going to lose a fight to a rubber mat. Whaley never expected EJ to have to play that first year when he drafted him. Additionally, he didnt have much say in the coaching staff since he wasn't even officially GM yet when they were hired. Lewis was added much later and he wasn't a rookie either. It certainly wasnt the perfect plan, but it wasnt nearly as bad as you described it there. But, a good point can be extrapolated from your post regarding the constant churn of coaching and FO staff, and not being able to get on the same page or establish and develop a solid system. Even in Dallas. How many times has Garrett been on the hot seat, but they stuck with him, and now they got a great offensive system in place... Edited October 28, 2016 by DrDareustein Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihilarian Posted October 28, 2016 Share Posted October 28, 2016 Well that's not true. Kolb was already signed, and the plan was to roll with him for at least that year if not 2. No one knew he was going to lose a fight to a rubber mat. Whaley never expected EJ to have to play that first year when he drafted him. Additionally, he didnt have much say in the coaching staff since he wasn't even officially GM yet when they were hired. Lewis was added much later and he wasn't a rookie either. It certainly wasnt the perfect plan, but it wasnt nearly as bad as you described it there. That still doesn't sway the fact that the team entered the season with basically three rookie QB's on the roster as Kolb was injured and placed on IR Aug 30th. I think the team also signed Matt Flynn and even Matt Leinhart for a short time too. It still doesn't deter that the team went forward with literally no help for those three young QB's besides a guy who had no NFL experience as an NFL OC, QB coach in Hackett! The blind leading the blind comes to mind. Lewis was an undrafted FA by the Rams in 2010 and the Browns claimed him off waivers 2011 where he spent 2012 on their practice squad. Lewis did actually play in one NFL game for Cleveland against Pittsburgh in 2012 so he did have one game start in one single game. He was waived by the Browns in 2013 and picked up by Detroit for their practice squad. So no, he wasn't an actual rookie. But he sure wasn't a veteran QB that could have helped teach the real rookies. Jeff Tuel was a waste of a roster spot and any veteran QB in the league would have been so very helpful in showing EJ and Lewis the NFL ropes during that season. This was also Marrone's fault for not hiring a decent QB coach too. Just saying that as a first round draft pick EJ was put into a very, very difficult position to develop his craft and about as bad as it could get with no veteran QB help, no NFL QB coach, an NFL offensive coordinator with no NFL experience as an NFL OC. This with a bad offensive line that graded at 22nd because the LT was playing above average and was near worst in the league at other positions. It doesn't get much worse for a rookie QB than that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAJBobby Posted October 28, 2016 Share Posted October 28, 2016 So one guy tweets it so it must be true right. Nope probably not Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted October 28, 2016 Share Posted October 28, 2016 So one guy tweets it so it must be true right. Nope probably not He is not the only one saying it...... Personally I think we should continue to draft them......but not overdraft them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAJBobby Posted October 28, 2016 Share Posted October 28, 2016 He is not the only one saying it...... Personally I think we should continue to draft them......but not overdraft them Point to me others. Because i do know places i tend to trust have 3 to 5, 1st round QBs. Now that said i have 0 faith in David Lee developing any Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fadingpain Posted October 28, 2016 Share Posted October 28, 2016 If the experts say this draft class sucks, there is probably another Joe Montana in there somewhere. The trick is to find him and draft him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maury Ballstein Posted October 28, 2016 Share Posted October 28, 2016 Get er dun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blokestradamus Posted October 28, 2016 Share Posted October 28, 2016 Point to me others. Because i do know places i tend to trust have 3 to 5, 1st round QBs. Of course, you have to weight up whether writers/sites are trying to be right on draft day or not. Logic dictates that typically 2-3 QBs will be 1st rounders. Laws of supply and demand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted October 28, 2016 Share Posted October 28, 2016 Get er dun I don't know...he was soooo bad against Va Tech Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maury Ballstein Posted October 28, 2016 Share Posted October 28, 2016 (edited) I don't know...he was soooo bad against Va TechGame was played in tropical storm, I said the same but I'll give him a pass. He's a football player. Gets punched in the mouth and isn't scared to run it through the middle. Edited October 28, 2016 by Ryan L Billz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted October 28, 2016 Author Share Posted October 28, 2016 So one guy tweets it so it must be true right. Nope probably not It's just one opinion for discussion. But it's also an opinion that doesn't get thrown around much or lightly. To say the whole class is bad, as opposed to having even 1 great prospect, is telling. And I post it because it's an opinion I and others have also posted previously. No one is stating any absolute facts, but rather compiling a general feel for this class. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike in Horseheads Posted October 28, 2016 Share Posted October 28, 2016 Weston Steelhammer is a legit safety prospect at Air Force. TROOPS!!! I can see the signs... "Its Hammer time" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saxum Posted October 28, 2016 Share Posted October 28, 2016 Well that's not true. Kolb was already signed, and the plan was to roll with him for at least that year if not 2. Never allow facts to interfere with his irrational rant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yungmack Posted October 28, 2016 Share Posted October 28, 2016 I've already got my eye on the guy the Bills need. But he's a red-shirt freshman who won't come out of college until after the 2018 season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihilarian Posted October 28, 2016 Share Posted October 28, 2016 (edited) Interesting article from the Patriots website on how the NFL grades players. http://www.patriots.com/news/2016/02/23/nflcoms-grades-top-prospects-nfl-combine 9.00-10 Once-in-lifetime player 8.00-9.00 Perennial All-Pro 7.50-7.99 Future All-Pro 7.00-7.49 Pro Bowl to All-Pro ability 6.50-6.99 Good NFL starter with Pro Bowl potential 6.00-6.49 Chance to become good NFL starter 5.70-5.99 Could become early NFL starter 5.30-5.69 Backup or eventual starter 5.15-5.29 Developmental prospect or special teams potential 5.01-5.14 Back end of the roster 5.00 50/50 chance of making the roster Both Goff 6.7 & Lynch 6.4 both got low grades. Gonna be interesting to see what the grades look like for this year's class of QB's Other sites, http://www.powerhousegm.com/blog/nfl-draft-prospect-grading-systems Edited October 28, 2016 by Nihilarian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blokestradamus Posted October 29, 2016 Share Posted October 29, 2016 I've already got my eye on the guy the Bills need. But he's a red-shirt freshman who won't come out of college until after the 2018 season. Darnold has played 5 games, chill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted October 29, 2016 Share Posted October 29, 2016 And that folks is why Cleveland wins for factory of sadness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrDawkinstein Posted October 29, 2016 Author Share Posted October 29, 2016 So one guy tweets it so it must be true right. Nope probably not It's just one opinion for discussion. But it's also an opinion that doesn't get thrown around much or lightly. To say the whole class is bad, as opposed to having even 1 great prospect, is telling. And I post it because it's an opinion I and others have also posted previously. No one is stating any absolute facts, but rather compiling a general feel for this class. Let me phrase this a different way... Which QBs do you like as Top-10 (Day 1 starter) quality? Which do you like as 1st round picks? Are there any out there you're really confident getting behind? (Keep in mind these questions are coming from a guy who was all aboard the Geno Smith train, so I certainly don't pretend to know about scouting QBs. But I was also a huge Newton champion as a slam dunk pick, and liked Wentz over Goff last year, so my guesser isn't too bad ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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