Torrey Smith on the block

[Coach Tuesday]

Woods type of player is what we need. We have the deep threat. we have a roster full of them. With Woods out we don't have a WR that runs great routes, blocks and creates separation on breaks.

 

Correct. Torrey Smith is basically a more polished Goodwin. He'd waste away in that offense.

[YoloinOhio]

Doug's pitch to Torrey:

How would you like to play in sub-freezing temperatures losing to bad teams that the HQ provokes the entire week, while we fire coordinators and lose stars to injury in an attempt to secure a December 'in the hunt' designation and an 8-8 record?

there is no "pitch" to Torrey. He's not a FA. He has no choice. That's why you make a trade vs try to get one in FA. If a WR had options, and any good one will, they aren't coming to Bflo. Edited October 25, 2016 by YoloinOhio

[dave mcbride]

Woods type of player is what we need. We have the deep threat. we have a roster full of them. With Woods out we don't have a WR that runs great routes, blocks and creates separation on breaks.

I really don't think we have a guy who can get deep and high-point the ball right now. Goodwin can't, and Turner is the best option. Smith is simply better than Turner. It's inarguable. Because of his flaws, Tyrod needs a receiver like this. Watkins is that guy, but he's not playing for a while.

 

Correct. Torrey Smith is basically a more polished Goodwin. He'd waste away in that offense.

He can high-point well and win jump balls. Goodwin really can't. Big difference.

[MAJBobby]

I really don't think we have a guy who can get deep and high-point the ball right now. Goodwin can't, and Turner is the best option. Smith is simply better than Turner. It's inarguable. Because of his flaws, Tyrod needs a receiver like this. Watkins is that guy, but he's not playing for a while.

He can high-point well and win jump balls. Goodwin really can't. Big difference.

Hunter can and has Highpointed Balls. He also has the speed to get deep. Who is our Route runner? We don't have one with Woods out.

 

Sammy and Woods both run good routes, they are both out. So we have a bunch of deep speed guys. Powell is the best route runner (and he is a work in progress) we have healthy right now. That is what the team needs not another deep guy that will see 2 passes a game

We ran 3 deep 9s Sunday with our no names.

 

1 - TD

2 - Hunter (should have been a TD or 1st down at the 1 because of the PI)

3 - Taylor late and Hung Goodwin out.

 

All three routes were open, so what changes with Smith?

 

If those routes are open now, they will still stay open.

 

How about that clutch 3rd and 5, do you have a route runner to create immediate separation to pick up that 1st and keep from going 3 and out? With Woods out no you dont

Edited October 25, 2016 by MAJBobby

[NoSaint]

Woods type of player is what we need. We have the deep threat. we have a roster full of them. With Woods out we don't have a WR that runs great routes, blocks and creates separation on breaks.

 

isnt one of your contentions with TT that he is boom or bust in the passing game and not going to be making those anticipation throws over the middle? if thats that case an actual deep threat is kind of exactly what would be impactful.

 

it also would be a quick learning curve for both sides.

 

just a little devils advocate there. im not sure what i think of smith the player.

Edited October 25, 2016 by NoSaint

[dave mcbride]

Hunter can and has Highpointed Balls. He also has the speed to get deep. Who is our Route runner? We don't have one with Woods out.

 

Sammy and Woods both run good routes, they are both out. So we have a bunch of deep speed guys. Powell is the best route runner (and he is a work in progress) we have healthy right now. That is what the team needs not another deep guy that will see 2 passes a game

We ran 3 deep 9s Sunday with our no names.

 

1 - TD

2 - Hunter (should have been a TD or 1st down at the 1 because of the PI)

3 - Taylor late and Hung Goodwin out.

 

All three routes were open, so what changes with Smith?

 

If those routes are open now, they will still stay open.

 

How about that clutch 3rd and 5, do you have a route runner to create immediate separation to pick up that 1st and keep from going 3 and out? With Woods out no you dont

 

I think you need both. Woods presumably won't be out for too long, and Watkins will. And who knows if Watkins will be able to play in the last 6 games.

 

Re: Smith v. Goodwin: Smith (6'1") is four inches taller than Goodwin and has a wingspan that is more than an inch longer. Plus he can leap. Look at his vertical percentile: http://www.mockdraftable.com/player/561/

 

Edited October 25, 2016 by dave mcbride

[Coach Tuesday]

I really don't think we have a guy who can get deep and high-point the ball right now. Goodwin can't, and Turner is the best option. Smith is simply better than Turner. It's inarguable. Because of his flaws, Tyrod needs a receiver like this. Watkins is that guy, but he's not playing for a while.

He can high-point well and win jump balls. Goodwin really can't. Big difference.

 

I must be blanking but who is Turner?

 

I read somewhere that Torrey Smith is actually incredibly inefficient under some metric, I can't remember if it was Football Outsiders or somewhere else. I'll try to look it up.

[MAJBobby]

isnt one of your contentions with TT that he is boom or bust in the passing game and not going to be making those anticipation throws over the middle? if thats that case an actual deep threat is kind of exactly what would be impactful.

 

it also would be a quick learning curve for both sides.

 

just a little devils advocate there. im not sure what i think of smith the player.

Yes it is my biggest issue with Taylor is he doesn't throw with Anticipation and the WR needs to be open for him to throw the Ball. That is why Woods who gets immediate separation out of his break missing is hurting Taylor. If you have that precise route runner the guys will be open immediately instead of him waiting for them to flash open. See what I am trying to say there

[dave mcbride]

 

I must be blanking but who is Turner?

 

I read somewhere that Torrey Smith is actually incredibly inefficient under some metric, I can't remember if it was Football Outsiders or somewhere else. I'll try to look it up.

Hunter. My bad. I was confusing him with the Dodgers third baseman!

[MAJBobby]

 

I think you need both. Woods presumably won't be out for too long, and Watkins will. And who knows if Watkins will be able to play in the last 6 games.

 

Re: Smith v. Goodwin: Smith (6'1") is four inches taller than Goodwin and has a wingspan that is more than an inch longer. Plus he can leap. Look at his vertical percentile: http://www.mockdraftable.com/player/561/

 

You are missing my POINT. WHO cares about size. Routes are open NOW with Goodwin and Hunter. If the routes where not open and these WRs are not getting their separation I would agree with you, but that is not the Case. The route is open.

[Kirby Jackson]

I'm not sure that this is the time or the place but I really liked the idea of drafting Michael Thomas. WR was a need before losing your 1st 4!!

[dave mcbride]

You are missing my POINT. WHO cares about size. Routes are open NOW with Goodwin and Hunter. If the routes where not open and these WRs are not getting their separation I would agree with you, but that is not the Case. The route is open.

Just to play devil's advocate: do you think that Taylor would be taking more chances downfield given that a) he clearly prefers sideline throws and b) Smith can run the sideline go route pretty well and win jump balls? I know you don't like Taylor, but I ask you to consider the question. Wishing that he'd throw more in the middle of the field versus what he's actually willing to take a chance on is the issue here. He heaved it up a bunch for Sammy when Watkins was healthy, and the results were good.

[MAJBobby]

I'm not sure that this is the time or the place but I really liked the idea of drafting Michael Thomas. WR was a need before losing your 1st 4!!

I came around to a WR somewhere in the 1st couple rounds. Initially I was against it because of the scheme that this offense runs.

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

 

Ok so now being open doesn't matter. Isnt that the POINT of a WR be open catch the Ball.

 

Well they got the open part down, now if a QB would just throw them the football, maybe Taylor can get the 8 and 9 out of a Box. It has nothing to do with respecting our WRs, Defenses don't RESPECT our QB, he doesn't scare them with his arm

 

Can you verify that receivers are running the right routes? Breaking at the correct depth and time? Lining up on the right side of the field? Who was the primary read? Was the primary changed at the line?

 

Not trying to get into a big argument here, but film's only as good as knowing what we called and what may have been adjusted before the snap.

[MAJBobby]

Just to play devil's advocate: do you think that Taylor would be taking more chances downfield given that a) he clearly prefers sideline throws and b) Smith can run the sideline go route pretty well and win jump balls? I know you don't like Taylor, but I ask you to consider the question. Wishing that he'd throw more in the middle of the field versus what he's actually willing to take a chance on is the issue here. He heaved it up a bunch for Sammy when Watkins was healthy, and the results were good.

He has a presnap read, if that presnap read is there he throws the 9. Again Sunday threw 3 of them, all 3 routes were open. If you are going to take a chance and just throw it up, you have a WR that can high point the Ball Justin Hunter at 6'4.

 

It is redundant, and not the reason the passing game struggled Sunday and has struggled. it is you do not have that precise route runner for the Middle routes in the LOS-10 yard range. If you looks at TT passing chart from last year you will see he loves throwing in the middle below 10 yards. So you need a WR to work in that range. Torrey Smith doesn't do it, Goodwin doesn't do it. Justin Hunter doesn't do it (routes not precise enough). Powell does (but again routes not polished enough).

 

You get Kendall Wright someone that does run great routes now you have that guy working the routes in the short Middle.

 

Woods even got away from it this year because he had to fill Sammys Role. That is one of the major reasons TT has regressed this year is because you do not have that WR on the roster right now that is healthy

 

Can you verify that receivers are running the right routes? Breaking at the correct depth and time? Lining up on the right side of the field? Who was the primary read? Was the primary changed at the line?

 

Not trying to get into a big argument here, but film's only as good as knowing what we called and what may have been adjusted before the snap.

I get that. Not can you tell me that people are actually scared of TT arm? What do you hear opposing coaches talk about when they talk about Taylor?

Edited October 25, 2016 by MAJBobby

[GG]

You are missing my POINT. WHO cares about size. Routes are open NOW with Goodwin and Hunter. If the routes where not open and these WRs are not getting their separation I would agree with you, but that is not the Case. The route is open.

 

You can't have it both ways. You can't slam on TT for being a gadget QB who can't hit with anticipation and then argue that Bills need more precise route running WRs.

 

If the Bills are saddled with a sandlot QB, then you give him the sandlot weapons.

 

At least for the remainder of this year.

[NoSaint]

Yes it is my biggest issue with Taylor is he doesn't throw with Anticipation and the WR needs to be open for him to throw the Ball. That is why Woods who gets immediate separation out of his break missing is hurting Taylor. If you have that precise route runner the guys will be open immediately instead of him waiting for them to flash open. See what I am trying to say there

i suppose i get that. who are the guys that you would be eye balling now (or in march)

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

He has a presnap read, if that presnap read is there he throws the 9. Again Sunday threw 3 of them, all 3 routes were open. If you are going to take a change you have a WR that can high point the Ball Justin Hunter at 6'4.

 

It is redundant, and not the reason the passing game struggles Sunday and has struggles. it is you do not have that precise route runner for the Middle routes in the LOS-10 yard range. If you looks at TT passing chart from last year you will see he loves throwing in the middle below 10 yards. So you need a WR to work in that range. Torrey Smith doesn't do it, Goodwin doesn't do it. Justin Hunter doesn't do it (routes not precise enough). Powell does (but again routes not polished enough).

 

You get Kendall Wright someone that does run great routes now you have that guy working the routes in the short Middle.

 

Woods even got away from it this year because he had to fill Sammys Role. That is one of the major reasons TT has regressed this year is because you do not have that WR on the roster right now that is healthy

I get that. Not can you tell me that people are actually scared of TT arm? What do you hear opposing coaches talk about when they talk about Taylor?

 

This is most likely why Salas won the job. QBs like a guy who gets open, and is where you want him to be when you want to throw the ball. Precision in routes is important because the throw is the same every time.

[MAJBobby]

 

You can't have it both ways. You can't slam on TT for being a gadget QB who can't hit with anticipation and then argue that Bills need more precise route running WRs.

 

If the Bills are saddled with a sandlot QB, then you give him the sandlot weapons.

 

At least for the remainder of this year.

 

And give him sandlot weapons and he continues to regress.

 

You give him a WR that gets open IMMEDIATELY with his routes, he sees the WR is open and throws the ball. You do not have to throw to windows with anticipation IF you have a precise route runner that creates separation immediately you can wait for that separation (because you lack anticipation) and throw the ball to the open WR and not a Window

i suppose i get that. who are the guys that you would be eye balling now (or in march)

Kendall Wright is who I would trade for immediately.

 

Last year of his deal, so not saddled with a big hit.

 

Also very Woods like, enough speed to run the 9s, but precise routes and a top end blocker

[dave mcbride]

He has a presnap read, if that presnap read is there he throws the 9. Again Sunday threw 3 of them, all 3 routes were open. If you are going to take a chance and just throw it up, you have a WR that can high point the Ball Justin Hunter at 6'4.

 

It is redundant, and not the reason the passing game struggled Sunday and has struggled. it is you do not have that precise route runner for the Middle routes in the LOS-10 yard range. If you looks at TT passing chart from last year you will see he loves throwing in the middle below 10 yards. So you need a WR to work in that range. Torrey Smith doesn't do it, Goodwin doesn't do it. Justin Hunter doesn't do it (routes not precise enough). Powell does (but again routes not polished enough).

 

You get Kendall Wright someone that does run great routes now you have that guy working the routes in the short Middle.

 

Woods even got away from it this year because he had to fill Sammys Role. That is one of the major reasons TT has regressed this year is because you do not have that WR on the roster right now that is healthy

 

Good post, and I can't disagree. I still think SMith is a lot better player than Hunter, and the team needs an upgrade. Probably more importantly, they need another WR who is a decent NFL player. They are short of those at present. Re Wright, three questions: a) why isn't he starting; b) why have his numbers dropped off; and c) why would the Titans trade a capable WR given that they're one game out of first place, and the team in front of them is bad?

Edited October 25, 2016 by dave mcbride