Torrey Smith on the block

[BADOLBILZ]

David Harris never reached free agency; he was re-signed several days before free agency began. Not sure how the Bills were in on the bidding for a player that was never available.

 

That is accurate, but the idea that his agent hadn't been in contact with the Bills when it was just days prior to the official opening of FA completely ignores the fact that agents negotiate free agent contracts with new teams at this time and then sign contracts minutes into free agency. Rex wanted him but $7.5 per for 3 years was VERY rich for an older ILB. Jets overpaid because the Bills and the Dolphins were both in on Harris.

[BADOLBILZ]

This is precisely what I'm talking about. you completely invent timelines to suit your narrative. There was never a bidding war for David Harris because the Jets signed him before he could be FA. But that hasn't stopped you from railing about it for over a year.

 

Same with the Marshall trade. Of course Bills would have liked to have him, but the veteran QB was a priority, if you recall. You can't slam the team for things outside their control, like McCown deciding to go to Cleveland. There was no other FA QB available, unless you wanted to bring back Jordan Palmer. Why do you think Cowboys gave up a fifth for Cassell?

 

Not everyrthing works in a neat way that frames your arguments.

 

 

But they were wrong.......there WERE better QB's available.

 

And they needed Marshall. That was their primary need at a position where they could realistically expect to get a high quality player. Whoever they got as their QB they were going to need kickasss receiving targets to make him look good. EJ Manuel might have looked good with Watkins and Marshall but Tyrod would have had a field day.

[The Big Cat]

 

 

But they were wrong.......there WERE better QB's available.

 

And they needed Marshall. That was their primary need at a position where they could realistically expect to get a high quality player. Whoever they got as their QB they were going to need kickasss receiving targets to make him look good. EJ Manuel might have looked good with Watkins and Marshall but Tyrod would have had a field day.

Still blaming Whaley for Jabari Greer?

[GG]

But they were wrong.......there WERE better QB's available.

 

And they needed Marshall. That was their primary need at a position where they could realistically expect to get a high quality player. Whoever they got as their QB they were going to need kickasss receiving targets to make him look good. EJ Manuel might have looked good with Watkins and Marshall but Tyrod would have had a field day.

Name the better available QBs at time.

 

If there was a consistent voice among Whaley, Ryan and Roman in the winter it was getting a vet QB was a priority. After they lost out on McCown, the options were almost done.

[BADOLBILZ]

Still blaming Whaley for Jabari Greer?

 

You asked for an example of a high pick directing a good value talent off of the team. The fact that they haven't had the opportunity to do so prior to this years top picks seems relevant. They've created that for themselves with the Shaq and Ragnuts selections. Watkins, Kujo and Darby weren't forcing any tough roster decisions.

 

Here's an idea........explain to me why they WON'T let either Brown go in favor of Ragnuts.

 

Your shtick is you never really say anything...........until that one time you do and then it's a bunch of heat mapped bulls*t excuses that only you buy.

Name the better available QBs at time.

 

If there was a consistent voice among Whaley, Ryan and Roman in the winter it was getting a vet QB was a priority. After they lost out on McCown, the options were almost done.

 

 

I have a better idea.......you give me the list of available QB's and I will point them out.......because it's pretty easy to find two that were available right in the AFC East that threw for about 60 combined TD's last year. How many did McCown and Cassell throw for again? Yeah, because they WEREN'T the best options.

Edited October 26, 2016 by #BADOL

[K-9]

 

That is accurate, but the idea that his agent hadn't been in contact with the Bills when it was just days prior to the official opening of FA completely ignores the fact that agents negotiate free agent contracts with new teams at this time and then sign contracts minutes into free agency. Rex wanted him but $7.5 per for 3 years was VERY rich for an older ILB. Jets overpaid because the Bills and the Dolphins were both in on Harris.

This was not possible unless the Bills and Dolphins wanted to expose themselves to charges of tampering. Harris was re-signed before the allowed 48 hour window for agents to contact teams prior to the official opening of the free agency period.

 

Harris was never more than a rumor for the Bills. To say we were in on him is pure conjecture.

[BobbyC81]

Call me crazy, but I don't really put a ton of stock in WR blocking. Yeah, it's nice, but it's not why they're on the field. I view it as a tertiary skill, and in any event Hogan has been blocking downfield well in NE himself. Both are good route runners and both are size-challenged. Hogan seems to be a better deep threat and appears to be a little quicker (although Woods is likely faster). Woods has been playing well this season, but so has Hogan. Hogan is on pace for only 33 catches, but he's on a loaded team (Gronk, Bennett, White, Amendola, Edelman) in which the QB spreads it around. The Bills would be better off if they had both of them instead of just one.

 

Ok, crazy. When you're offensive philosophy is "ground and pound" with your QB attempting less than 30 passes per game, WR blocking is important.

[K-9]

Ok, crazy. When you're offensive philosophy is "ground and pound" with your QB attempting less than 30 passes per game, WR blocking is important.

Absolutely. Year in and year out, the top running teams in the league have WRs who can block. It may not be the first thing coaches look for in a wideout, but it's still a coveted trait. And it's emphasized by every team in the league to some degree.

[BobbyC81]

 

The ceiling on Myles Jack is much higher than that of Shaq or Ragnuts. How would he be doing in Buffalo? How do you think Lorax or Zach Brown would be doing in Jacksonville? Jack is an extremely versatile talent.........and Jacksonville is an enormously underachieving team which indicates poor coaching.

 

But, wait, don't the Jags still have Saint Doug?

[QuoteTheRaven83]

For a 30 year old WR? They'll be lucky to get a 5th rounder for him...6th more likely.

 

LOL

 

SMH

[Coach Tuesday]

I've lost the thread a bit, or maybe the thread has lost itself.

 

In any event - it's pretty damn clear that they screwed up by not placing a higher tender on Hogan. They're now scrambling to find WRs and all they had to do was up the tender on him, he's not a world-beater but no one could seriously argue that the Bills wouldn't be better off right now with Hogan on the roster. What was the difference in yearly value, $500K? $1M? Whatever it was, it was well worth it. And that decision showed a complete lack of foresight and more of the "penny wise, pound foolish" thinking that we very much did see during the Wilson years. I don't know how anyone could dispute that it was a bad decision of the kind we've seen over and over again (through different GM administrations, sure, but the similarities of these occurrences suggest unchanged thinking).

 

OTOH, Preston Brown is a JAG. Ragland may be, also, but I'm hoping (and I think the Bills are betting) that Ragland makes P. Brown expendable. Now I agree with the general premise that high picks shouldn't be wasted on filling roster holes, and shouldn't be used for positions that easily could be filled in FA. I hated the Lawson pick and I hated the Ragland pick even more. That said, if Ragland can become David Harris (who was a 2nd round pick, himself), which is a big "if," it will mean very good things for Rex's defense (assuming Rex is still here by then, which I doubt).

 

But back to the OP - Torrey Smith is a one-trick pony who is easy to defend and who is too expensive for what he brings to the table.

[YoloinOhio]

Why anyone who has a choice isn't coming yolo? Curious... the offense is too run oriented?

 

He has a nice deep crosser to.

yes - I think a FA WR with options would not want to play in this offense.

[ALF]

Ok, crazy. When you're offensive philosophy is "ground and pound" with your QB attempting less than 30 passes per game, WR blocking is important.

 

Very good point , just don't do it like Landry, except against Burfict maybe.

[The Big Cat]

 

You asked for an example of a high pick directing a good value talent off of the team. The fact that they haven't had the opportunity to do so prior to this years top picks seems relevant. They've created that for themselves with the Shaq and Ragnuts selections. Watkins, Kujo and Darby weren't forcing any tough roster decisions.

 

Here's an idea........explain to me why they WON'T let either Brown go in favor of Ragnuts.

 

Your shtick is you never really say anything...........until that one time you do and then it's a bunch of heat mapped bulls*t excuses that only you buy.

 

 

 

I have a better idea.......you give me the list of available QB's and I will point them out.......because it's pretty easy to find two that were available right in the AFC East that threw for about 60 combined TD's last year. How many did McCown and Cassell throw for again? Yeah, because they WEREN'T the best options.

My schtick is never say anything? That's rich. Explain that to my wife.

 

And no that wasn't the question. But true to YOUR schtick which you've already been called out for in the thread, you posited something that never happened, ran with it, and drew a bunch of wild conclusions which you treated like absolutes.

 

Speaking of schticks, didn't hear much from you during the month Shady dominated.

 

Anyways, here's something I'll say, the question was what evidence is there that--as you asserted--both Browns are likely to let walk and create holes and needs.

 

You said Jabari Greer. That **** was hilarious.

 

Then you asked what evidence is there they won't be let go.

 

That's a fair question, but to anyone who's been paying attention since DW took over it's a little odd, since the answers are obvious. Aquisitons or retentions or restructures which he's been responsible for since taking over which have not required finding replacements and have enabled signing other non hole creating players:

 

Dareus, KW, Clay, NRC, AW, TT, Glenn, Incognito, Wood, Hughes

 

All more relevant than Jabari !@#$ing Greer.

 

Now this is also all to satisfy your tangential premise that PB SHOULD be kept. I'm not even of the mind that he needs to be and that his departure wouldn't be as calamitous as your need for it to be would.

[8-8 Forever?]

Has experience playing with TT

this is a good point. forgot about this . yes.

[GG]

 

 

 

I have a better idea.......you give me the list of available QB's and I will point them out.......because it's pretty easy to find two that were available right in the AFC East that threw for about 60 combined TD's last year. How many did McCown and Cassell throw for again? Yeah, because they WEREN'T the best options.

 

Yes that would be a good idea, because we can discuss the QBs who were actually available as opposed to the fantasy picks Bills had a shot on. Out of all of them, Tyrod ended up being the best signing, but there's no way you could have predicted that in February 2015. And it was clear that nobody at OBD wanted to go into training camp without a QB who didn't have real NFL experience.

 

Matt Moore & Brian Hoyer were the cream of the available crop, followed by:

 

1. Tim Tebow, QB, Eagles. Age: 28.
2. Jimmy Clausen, QB, Bears. Age: 27.
3. Christian Ponder, QB, Vikings. Age: 27.
4. Austin Davis (RFA), QB, Rams. Age: 26.
5. Tarvaris Jackson, QB, Seahawks. Age: 32.
6. Luke McCown, QB, Saints. Age: 34
7. Matt Schaub, QB, Raiders. Age: 34.
8. T.J. Yates, QB, Falcons. Age: 28.
9. Colt McCoy, QB, Redskins. Age: 28.
10. Tyrod Taylor, QB, Ravens. Age: 26.
11. Josh Johnson, QB, 49ers. Age: 29.
12. Matt Flynn, QB, Patriots. Age: 30.
13. Tyler Thigpen, QB, Browns. Age: 31.
14. Thad Lewis, QB, Texans. Age: 27.
15. Rex Grossman, QB, Redskins. Age: 35.
16. Jason Campbell, QB, Bengals. Age: 33.
17. Matt Hasselbeck, QB, Colts. Age: 39.
18. Dan Orlovsky, QB, Lions. Age: 32.
19. Blaine Gabbert, QB, 49ers. Age: 25.
20. Jordan Palmer, QB, Titans. Age: 31.
21. Kellen Moore (RFA), QB, Lions. Age: 26.
22. Scott Tolzien, QB, Packers. Age: 27.
23. Chandler Harnish, QB, Cardinals. Age: 27.

[ALF]

Taylor needs a tall WR like Hunter and a tall TE JMO

[BADOLBILZ]

I've lost the thread a bit, or maybe the thread has lost itself.

 

In any event - it's pretty damn clear that they screwed up by not placing a higher tender on Hogan. They're now scrambling to find WRs and all they had to do was up the tender on him, he's not a world-beater but no one could seriously argue that the Bills wouldn't be better off right now with Hogan on the roster. What was the difference in yearly value, $500K? $1M? Whatever it was, it was well worth it. And that decision showed a complete lack of foresight and more of the "penny wise, pound foolish" thinking that we very much did see during the Wilson years. I don't know how anyone could dispute that it was a bad decision of the kind we've seen over and over again (through different GM administrations, sure, but the similarities of these occurrences suggest unchanged thinking).

 

OTOH, Preston Brown is a JAG. Ragland may be, also, but I'm hoping (and I think the Bills are betting) that Ragland makes P. Brown expendable. Now I agree with the general premise that high picks shouldn't be wasted on filling roster holes, and shouldn't be used for positions that easily could be filled in FA. I hated the Lawson pick and I hated the Ragland pick even more. That said, if Ragland can become David Harris (who was a 2nd round pick, himself), which is a big "if," it will mean very good things for Rex's defense (assuming Rex is still here by then, which I doubt).

 

But back to the OP - Torrey Smith is a one-trick pony who is easy to defend and who is too expensive for what he brings to the table.

 

 

Agreed on Hogan and Preston Brown is JAG or close to it. PB would likely be a cheap, easy re-sign and or could have been replaced fairly easily in FA. That's not to say Ragland won't be good or better but it's not apples and oranges, they are VERY similar.

[K D]

Preston Brown is terrible. If they are smart they will re-sign Zach and Ragland will play Preston's spot

[BADOLBILZ]

 

 

Yes that would be a good idea, because we can discuss the QBs who were actually available as opposed to the fantasy picks Bills had a shot on. Out of all of them, Tyrod ended up being the best signing, but there's no way you could have predicted that in February 2015. And it was clear that nobody at OBD wanted to go into training camp without a QB who didn't have real NFL experience.

 

Matt Moore & Brian Hoyer were the cream of the available crop, followed by:

 

1. Tim Tebow, QB, Eagles. Age: 28.
2. Jimmy Clausen, QB, Bears. Age: 27.
3. Christian Ponder, QB, Vikings. Age: 27.
4. Austin Davis (RFA), QB, Rams. Age: 26.
5. Tarvaris Jackson, QB, Seahawks. Age: 32.
6. Luke McCown, QB, Saints. Age: 34
7. Matt Schaub, QB, Raiders. Age: 34.
8. T.J. Yates, QB, Falcons. Age: 28.
9. Colt McCoy, QB, Redskins. Age: 28.
10. Tyrod Taylor, QB, Ravens. Age: 26.
11. Josh Johnson, QB, 49ers. Age: 29.
12. Matt Flynn, QB, Patriots. Age: 30.
13. Tyler Thigpen, QB, Browns. Age: 31.
14. Thad Lewis, QB, Texans. Age: 27.
15. Rex Grossman, QB, Redskins. Age: 35.
16. Jason Campbell, QB, Bengals. Age: 33.
17. Matt Hasselbeck, QB, Colts. Age: 39.
18. Dan Orlovsky, QB, Lions. Age: 32.
19. Blaine Gabbert, QB, 49ers. Age: 25.
20. Jordan Palmer, QB, Titans. Age: 31.
21. Kellen Moore (RFA), QB, Lions. Age: 26.
22. Scott Tolzien, QB, Packers. Age: 27.
23. Chandler Harnish, QB, Cardinals. Age: 27.

 

 

 

Throw in Fitz and his 30 TD's and that's probably 4-6 better options. Point is that GM's aren't judged by being able to determine who was better several years ago but rather who will be better in the upcoming season.

 

I was on the Tyrod bandwagon quite early on. Someone else was too, perhaps Kirby. But admittedly it was because I felt that Cassell was a straight-up tomato can acquisition.