dave mcbride Posted October 25, 2016 Posted October 25, 2016 That's not Wilson......that's the NFL. But it's duly noted that you guys think Ragnuts will be a backup to or be forced to beat out Brown and Brown for a job for the next 3-4 years. It's simple personnel math and as I stated from the start of last offseason.......you can fill front 7 positions with modest talent in Rex D. He undid himself in NY by over drafting front 7 defensive players........blame his GM's all you want but his fingerprints were all over their draft picks. I've never been a Rex hater.......he can be excellent like in 2009, 2010 and 2013.......or he can be awful like 2014-2015........but the GM has gotta' keep him at arms length on draft day. The injured Clemson player being picked first has Rex's hands all over it. I'm not saying it was a bad pick because Lawson may end up being good (let's be honest - we don't know), but I have to think that was all Rex.
The Big Cat Posted October 25, 2016 Posted October 25, 2016 I am buying that from Badol. Greer was fantastic in a Saints uniform. He was a very important player on some good teams including a Super Bowl title. He may very well have been their best corner. Injuries derailed him later on but he was very good in NOLA. Nobody is disputing that. That it happened 2.5 GMs ago is really at issue here. That he couldn't come up with an example as it pertains to the current GM was the point.
NoSaint Posted October 25, 2016 Posted October 25, 2016 I am buying that from Badol. Greer was fantastic in a Saints uniform. He was a very important player on some good teams including a Super Bowl title. He may very well have been their best corner. Injuries derailed him later on but he was very good in NOLA. he was easily the #1 for a good window in nola there was a short stretch where he was playing the position as well as just about anyone in the league. that dude was running with WRs and not wasting a single misplaced step. he was playing his technique just about perfect for a flash there.
dave mcbride Posted October 25, 2016 Posted October 25, 2016 (edited) Nobody is disputing that. That it happened 2.5 GMs ago is really at issue here. That he couldn't come up with an example as it pertains to the current GM was the point. To be fair, the listed GM when Greer left was a fella by the name of Russ Brandon. Word has it that he's still here, along with Buddy's protege. http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/buf/2008.htm Edited October 25, 2016 by dave mcbride
The Big Cat Posted October 25, 2016 Posted October 25, 2016 To be fair, the listed GM when Greer left was a fella by the name of Russ Brandon. Word has it that he's still here, along with Buddy's protege. http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/buf/2008.htm hence the half
billykaykay Posted October 25, 2016 Posted October 25, 2016 Which is what Chris Hogan got, who is half the WR that Woods is. Not knocking Woods, but he is very average. How many times have you seen him go deep?
The Big Cat Posted October 25, 2016 Posted October 25, 2016 to be entirely honest, i wasn't sure we even had a GM when that went down
dave mcbride Posted October 25, 2016 Posted October 25, 2016 hence the half LOL. More seriously, there HAS been some real continuity in this organization since Brandon took over. Brandon selected Nix, and Nix selected Whaley. There has been upheaval in the coaching staff, but not so much in the front office ...
GG Posted October 25, 2016 Posted October 25, 2016 That's not Wilson......that's the NFL. But it's duly noted that you guys think Ragnuts will be a backup to or be forced to beat out Brown and Brown for a job for the next 3-4 years. It's simple personnel math and as I stated from the start of last offseason.......you can fill front 7 positions with modest talent in Rex D. He undid himself in NY by over drafting front 7 defensive players........blame his GM's all you want but his fingerprints were all over their draft picks. I've never been a Rex hater.......he can be excellent like in 2009, 2010 and 2013.......or he can be awful like 2014-2015........but the GM has gotta' keep him at arms length on draft day. Stick to one argument and don't contradict yourself. If your theory is correct, than the Bills are planning it perfectly with Ragland ready to step in for Preston when he's ready to hit free agency, especially since you don't believe that the position merits premium pay. It is impressive that you play on both sides of the fence in arguing that the position is devalued in Rex's D, but that the Bills blew it by not offering the moon for David Harris (even though he was never available) LOL. More seriously, there HAS been some real continuity in this organization since Brandon took over. Brandon selected Nix, and Nix selected Whaley. There has been upheaval in the coaching staff, but not so much in the front office ... The other part that shouldn't be ignored is Bills are no longer managed on a cash to cap basis, which was a huge consideration in letting Greer walk.
dave mcbride Posted October 25, 2016 Posted October 25, 2016 Not knocking Woods, but he is very average. How many times have you seen him go deep? Agreed. I'm not convinced Woods is much better than Hogan. They're both decent players.
Kirby Jackson Posted October 25, 2016 Posted October 25, 2016 Nobody is disputing that. That it happened 2.5 GMs ago is really at issue here. That he couldn't come up with an example as it pertains to the current GM was the point. That is more than fair.
Tenhigh Posted October 25, 2016 Posted October 25, 2016 are we ever actually discussing cutting him after April? for all intents and purposes for a discussion in this thread, his contract moving forward isnt guaranteed. in that we would be paying 15m a year for a #2 and #3 i dont. otherwise, sure, who wouldnt like that talent TBDism foul here. This should read "intensive purposes".
BringBackOrton Posted October 25, 2016 Posted October 25, 2016 Stick to one argument and don't contradict yourself. If your theory is correct, than the Bills are planning it perfectly with Ragland ready to step in for Preston when he's ready to hit free agency, especially since you don't believe that the position merits premium pay. It is impressive that you play on both sides of the fence in arguing that the position is devalued in Rex's D, but that the Bills blew it by not offering the moon for David Harris (even though he was never available) The other part that shouldn't be ignored is Bills are no longer managed on a cash to cap basis, which was a huge consideration in letting Greer walk. Badol's position has been that top picks are worth more than the positions the Bills have used them to fill, if I understand him correctly. You'd rather have a good skill position player in round 2 and pay Harris/Zach Brown, than draft Ragland and have the Harris/Zach Brown money to spend on bad skill player FA's. I tend to agree.
Fan in Chicago Posted October 25, 2016 Posted October 25, 2016 Agreed. I'm not convinced Woods is much better than Hogan. They're both decent players. I am surprised you think that. I think Woods is a better blocker and route runner than Hogan. He is a borderline #2/very good #3. But Hogan IMHO is one below him on each. And I liked Hogan...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted October 25, 2016 Posted October 25, 2016 Still stealing money, Marcel? Toot Toot goes the whistle on the SS Puffalot.
dave mcbride Posted October 25, 2016 Posted October 25, 2016 I am surprised you think that. I think Woods is a better blocker and route runner than Hogan. He is a borderline #2/very good #3. But Hogan IMHO is one below him on each. And I liked Hogan... Call me crazy, but I don't really put a ton of stock in WR blocking. Yeah, it's nice, but it's not why they're on the field. I view it as a tertiary skill, and in any event Hogan has been blocking downfield well in NE himself. Both are good route runners and both are size-challenged. Hogan seems to be a better deep threat and appears to be a little quicker (although Woods is likely faster). Woods has been playing well this season, but so has Hogan. Hogan is on pace for only 33 catches, but he's on a loaded team (Gronk, Bennett, White, Amendola, Edelman) in which the QB spreads it around. The Bills would be better off if they had both of them instead of just one.
BADOLBILZ Posted October 25, 2016 Posted October 25, 2016 Badol's position has been that top picks are worth more than the positions the Bills have used them to fill, if I understand him correctly. You'd rather have a good skill position player in round 2 and pay Harris/Zach Brown, than draft Ragland and have the Harris/Zach Brown money to spend on bad skill player FA's. I tend to agree.
John from Riverside Posted October 25, 2016 Posted October 25, 2016 Badol's position has been that top picks are worth more than the positions the Bills have used them to fill, if I understand him correctly. You'd rather have a good skill position player in round 2 and pay Harris/Zach Brown, than draft Ragland and have the Harris/Zach Brown money to spend on bad skill player FA's. I tend to agree. My position on this is we had absolutely no idea that Lorax and Z. Brown were going to play as well as they have......a couple of thoughts here - What if Lorax and Z. Brown end up playing exactly as their contracts would indicate? Backup fill in guys and not guys putting up top of the league numbers? Would those pick have made sense? To me they would? - We still dont know just how good those picks are even gonna be yet......what if they come in next year and are really good players? Injuries are what are the driving force on all of this....What would this O be like if Sammy Watkins wasnt sidelined? They are allready putting up a lot of points in a running game orientated offense.
Reed83HOF Posted October 25, 2016 Author Posted October 25, 2016 They probably over-fixed their defense at the expense of roster building. Drafting for need tends to keep you always playing from behind. Now they will probably end up just letting Zach and/or Preston Brown go in FA over the next two seasons when they would have made reasonably priced re-signs while they got value at other positions from those 3 picks they utilitzed on Ragnuts. What you need to do as an organization is find those $12M-$20M per year players in the first couple rounds so you don't have to fork out $100M deals to another teams warty star player in FA to get one. ^ This
BringBackOrton Posted October 25, 2016 Posted October 25, 2016 My position on this is we had absolutely no idea that Lorax and Z. Brown were going to play as well as they have......a couple of thoughts here - What if Lorax and Z. Brown end up playing exactly as their contracts would indicate? Backup fill in guys and not guys putting up top of the league numbers? Would those pick have made sense? To me they would? - We still dont know just how good those picks are even gonna be yet......what if they come in next year and are really good players? Injuries are what are the driving force on all of this....What would this O be like if Sammy Watkins wasnt sidelined? They are allready putting up a lot of points in a running game orientated offense. to your first question, Ragland/Shaq still would've gotten hurt so it wouldn't matter. They'd still be playing. To your second, what if Ragland and Shaq are never as good or are just equal with LorAx and the Browns? You can play the what if game til the cows come home.
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