Kirby Jackson Posted October 21, 2016 Posted October 21, 2016 No...the league IS the owners. What Goodall does or does not do is at the express consent of the owners. Mara, Jones, Biscotti...these are the individuals who can rid the league of bad men. But they don't want to--nor do any of the owners (unless they are harmless and cheap F-ups like poor ol' Karlos Williams). This is why it always so laughable when posters here lash out at "Goodell" when the merdre hits the fan. This is exactly what Terry, Jerry, Bobby, Artie and the boys want. And also why they can't fire Goodall, because they may not find another guy so good at burying the bodies.. You name 3 owners (really 2 because Rice was gone) that have employed these guys with knowledge of their brutal acts. Their are 30 others. I would imagine that the majority would prefer that those characters were out of the game. It hasn't been a good look for the league.
Augie Posted October 21, 2016 Posted October 21, 2016 (edited) Parents of the people growing up idolizing NBA and NHL players aren't pressuring their congress people about the messaging their kids are getting. If they were, there would be movement. Take a moment to think about that, then I'll ask if you really believe that, or if you just want to keep pushing your misguided point. Edited October 21, 2016 by Augie
Dragonborn10 Posted October 21, 2016 Posted October 21, 2016 I haven't read every word here, but I heard today on the radio (major network host) that Brown had been "molested" when he was 7 years old. Is that true? Was it covered here? If he was sexually abused at a young age, that can cause a lot of long term trauma. As I understand it, he's been in therapy and family counseling for quite a few years. He knows he has a problem, and he's trying to work on it. It's a horrible thing when lives get damaged in such tragic ways. Don't get me wrong, nothing excuses domestic violence, so don't bother going there with me. But don't be too simple. My only point is life can be much more complicated than we can see on the surface from a distance. I've been exposed to this stuff with those close to me and we've learned to be less judgmental. He's apparently done terrible things, and from what I heard today he's also a victim. (Does anyone have more info on that?) The current mind set is (and should be) to condemn him, but if true I also feel sorry for him. I think people are condemning the Giants and NFL response.
TakeYouToTasker Posted October 21, 2016 Posted October 21, 2016 Take a moment to think about that, then I'll ask if you really believe that, or if you just want to keep pushing your point.I'll repeat: the reason MLB got crushed was because of pressure from parents who were their constituents. It's was a complete "think of the children" thing. They had their anti-trust exemption threatened. Again, perhaps I'm wrong, but I don't believe I am.
Kirby Jackson Posted October 21, 2016 Posted October 21, 2016 (edited) This will play out one of two ways, and one of us will be right. I'll wager a bills hat on it. You are on!! The NBA is growing as rapidly as anybody and their image has been completely re-shaped over the last 10-15 years. The leaders in the league have shifted from rebellious youth to family men. They have THE most positive influence amongst the youth in the country. It used to be cool to be a rapper and wear expensive jewelry. Now these guys are businessmen and fathers. They don't test for marijuana and it's being used. Imagine what it would look like if LeBron James were suspended for 25% of the season for a failed marijuana test? That would be terrible for the league, for him, for kids, etc... He may very well use it recreationally but it's better for everyone that it's quiet. There is much less damage to be done. Edited October 21, 2016 by Kirby Jackson
Mr. WEO Posted October 21, 2016 Posted October 21, 2016 You name 3 owners (really 2 because Rice was gone) that have employed these guys with knowledge of their brutal acts. Their are 30 others. I would imagine that the majority would prefer that those characters were out of the game. It hasn't been a good look for the league. Mara has always been considered one of the straightest, "classiest" owners, yet here we are. He's been burying bodies as well. The other owners (there are only 28 others--can't count the Packers) did done nothing to shame these three (just 3 examples) to fire these guys--this should be obvious. The culture of this tiny club is to circle the wagons and keep out of the other guys dirty business---just keep an eye on the money. The owners' collective yawn over spy gate should have taught you this years ago...
Augie Posted October 21, 2016 Posted October 21, 2016 I think people are condemning the Giants and NFL response. Thanks, as I'm interested in this aspect. Do you feel there is sufficient content about the full picture? I'm not giving him a free ride, but if the guy has real issues it is worthy of consideration. NOT an excuse, but if he's also a victim and is working on his issues, I hope he makes progress. Mental health is a difficult topic.
Mr. WEO Posted October 21, 2016 Posted October 21, 2016 You are on!! The NBA is growing as rapidly as anybody and their image has been completely re-shaped over the last 10-15 years. The leaders in the league have shifted from rebellious youth to family men. They have THE most positive influence amongst the youth in the country. It used to be cool to be a rapper and wear expensive jewelry. Now these guys are businessmen and fathers. They don't test for marijuana and it's being used. Imagine what it would look like if LeBron James were suspended for 25% of the season for a failed marijuana test? That would be terrible for the league, for him, for kids, etc... He may very well use it recreationally but it's better for everyone that it's quiet. There is much less damage to be done. To be fair, no one of anything close to LeBron's stature has been suspended in the NFL for weed.
TakeYouToTasker Posted October 21, 2016 Posted October 21, 2016 (edited) You are on!! The NBA is growing as rapidly as anybody and their image has been completely re-shaped over the last 10-15 years. The leaders in the league have shifted from rebellious youth to family men. They have THE most positive influence amongst the youth in the country. It used to be cool to be a rapper and wear expensive jewelry. Now these guys are businessmen and fathers. They don't test for marijuana and it's being used. Imagine what it would look like if LeBron James were suspended for 25% of the season for a failed marijuana test? That would be terrible for the league, for him, for kids, etc... He may very well use it recreationally but it's better for everyone that it's quiet. There is much less damage to be done. I don't disagree with any of what you've said. With that said, I present a hypothetical: LeBron starts getting blasted on TMZ for pot use. Multiple times, multiple incidents. Maybe something shows up in a police blotter. What's the fallout? Edit: send me a PM so I have a reminder about the wager when I want to collect my hat after the new CBA! Edited October 21, 2016 by TakeYouToTasker
Kirby Jackson Posted October 21, 2016 Posted October 21, 2016 (edited) Mara has always been considered one of the straightest, "classiest" owners, yet here we are. He's been burying bodies as well. The other owners (there are only 28 others--can't count the Packers) did done nothing to shame these three (just 3 examples) to fire these guys--this should be obvious. The culture of this tiny club is to circle the wagons and keep out of the other guys dirty business---just keep an eye on the money. The owners' collective yawn over spy gate should have taught you this years ago... I don't disagree but as the outrage grows (and it will with Brown) and the ratings dip they may look in the mirror. They may need to prioritize character a little to go back in the right direction. If you were to ask the casual fan to do a "pros and cons" of today's NFL their perception would be more negative than a decade ago. There will come a tipping point where the owners say enough is enough. Maybe we haven't reached it yet but it is trending that way. Edited October 21, 2016 by Kirby Jackson
Augie Posted October 21, 2016 Posted October 21, 2016 I don't disagree but as the outrage grows (and it will with Brown) and the ratings dip they may look in the mirror. They may need to prioritize character a little to go back in the right direction. If you were to ask the casual fan to do a "pros and cons" of today's NFL their perception would be more negative than a decade ago. There will come a tipping point where the owners say enough is enough. Maybe we haven't reached it yet but it is trending that way. And Roger gets paid handsomely to take all the grief. After him, it will be another guy to police the image of the league.
Mr. WEO Posted October 21, 2016 Posted October 21, 2016 I don't disagree but as the outrage grows (and it will with Brown) and the ratings dip they may look in the mirror. They may need to prioritize character a little to go back in the right direction. If you were to ask the casual fan to do a "pros and cons" of today's NFL their perception would be more negative than a decade ago. There will come a tipping point where the owners say enough is enough. Maybe we haven't reached it yet but it is trending that way. The ratings drop is purely a function of bad nationally televised matchups. Nobody who watches football regularly stopped watching because a tiny number of players got suspended for drugs and no one outside of NY knew who Josh Brown was until this issue came up--so they don't care at all. People are schizophrenic about the NFL in this country--they are absolutely obsessed with it and favor it far beyond all other pro sports---yet they cannot stop complaining about it....especially regarding issues that have nothing to do with the game itself. It's fascinating.
Kirby Jackson Posted October 21, 2016 Posted October 21, 2016 (edited) I don't disagree with any of what you've said. With that said, I present a hypothetical: LeBron starts getting blasted on TMZ for pot use. Multiple times, multiple incidents. Maybe something shows up in a police blotter. What's the fallout? The same as when Michael Phelps did it maybe? He was an American hero. People went "oh" and then moved on. It's when the team starts getting hurt and the integrity of the league is brought into question that people cared. Let me ask it another way. Would people have been more outraged if Dareus didn't get suspended for synthetic weed? Or Nigel Bradham, Le'Veon Bell or LaGarette Blount? Would they have cared at all, even if they knew that they were caught with it, if they weren't suspended? They haven't cared in the other leagues. The only reason that people care is if their team is missing a guy. No one would be morally outraged if a guy that had a joint in his car wasn't suspended. If a guy beats his wife, the team knows and let him continue playing, that's where the outrage arises. EDIT: I do want to be clear that I am speaking just to marijuana. PEDs, MDMA, heroine, etc... are a different conversation. Edited October 21, 2016 by Kirby Jackson
Mr. WEO Posted October 21, 2016 Posted October 21, 2016 The same as when Michael Phelps did it maybe? He was an American hero. People went "oh" and then moved on. It's when the team starts getting hurt and the integrity of the league is brought into question that people cared. Let me ask it another way. Would people have been more outraged if Dareus didn't get suspended for synthetic weed? Or Nigel Bradham, Le'Veon Bell or LaGarette Blount? Would they have cared at all, even if they knew that they were caught with it, if they weren't suspended? They haven't cared in the other leagues. The only reason that people care is if their team is missing a guy. No one would be morally outraged if a guy that had a joint in his car wasn't suspended. If a guy beats his wife, the team knows and let him continue playing, that's where the outrage arises. EDIT: I do want to be clear that I am speaking just to marijuana. PEDs, MDMA, heroine, etc... are a different conversation. Mets fans didn't care with Reyes and Cubs fans were fine with the acquisition of Chapman. Outrage is a blink of an eye....
TakeYouToTasker Posted October 21, 2016 Posted October 21, 2016 (edited) The same as when Michael Phelps did it maybe? He was an American hero. People went "oh" and then moved on. It's when the team starts getting hurt and the integrity of the league is brought into question that people cared. Let me ask it another way. Would people have been more outraged if Dareus didn't get suspended for synthetic weed? Or Nigel Bradham, Le'Veon Bell or LaGarette Blount? Would they have cared at all, even if they knew that they were caught with it, if they weren't suspended? They haven't cared in the other leagues. The only reason that people care is if their team is missing a guy. No one would be morally outraged if a guy that had a joint in his car wasn't suspended. If a guy beats his wife, the team knows and let him continue playing, that's where the outrage arises. Maybe I'm out of touch, but I actually give a damn about my kids using drugs; and as such I have a problem with people put forward as role models using them. To go a bit PPP here, my personal stance on legality is very libertarian. I don't think marajuana use should be a criminal offense, nor even a civil offense if used in private; but I do think it's use should be discriminated against by employers as appropriate, and I think amongst athletes that fits the bill. Like I said, that might make me a bit of a "square" but I'm more than OK with that. Edited October 21, 2016 by TakeYouToTasker
Kirby Jackson Posted October 21, 2016 Posted October 21, 2016 Mets fans didn't care with Reyes and Cubs fans were fine with the acquisition of Chapman. Outrage is a blink of an eye.... Although those guys were punished. I'm not suggesting a permanent ban; just a quicker trigger, cooperation (or punishment) at the team level and a more concerted effort to eliminate it on the front end. In addition, the punishment has to meet the crime.
MAJBobby Posted October 21, 2016 Posted October 21, 2016 @mikefreemanNFL Players are also checking in with me. More than a few stated outright they believe Josh Brown got a break because Brown is white. And it starts and the reason for my original post.
Mr. WEO Posted October 21, 2016 Posted October 21, 2016 Although those guys were punished. I'm not suggesting a permanent ban; just a quicker trigger, cooperation (or punishment) at the team level and a more concerted effort to eliminate it on the front end. In addition, the punishment has to meet the crime. Hardy and Rice were punished. Reyes and Chapman were punished by MLB. Teams were happy to have them. Fans didn't care---or at least we didn't hear if they did because no one cares (nationally) about MLB until (maybe) the WS rolls around. The NFL on the other hand, dominates the news cycle year round. And we are forced to be outraged because we are told to be...until we aren't any more (and the season starts..) And it starts and the reason for my original post. Players "check in with" Mike Freeman??
Kirby Jackson Posted October 21, 2016 Posted October 21, 2016 Maybe I'm out of touch, but I actually give a damn about my kids using drugs; and as such I have a problem with people put forward as role models using them. To go a bit PPP here, my personal stance on legality is very libertarian. I don't think marajuana use should be a criminal offense, nor even a civil offense if used in private; but I do think it's use should be discriminated against by employers as appropriate, and I think amongst athletes that fits the bill. Like I said, that might make me a bit of a "square" but I'm more than OK with that. I don't disagree with that at all. In fact, that's kind of where I stand. My point is that if you take the light off of it, by not testing, you won't have to worry about it being a public issue. It becomes public because "____" is suspended for 4 games. The other leagues have went to "don't ask, don't tell" for lack of a better term. To that end, we have no idea if LeBron James smokes marijuana and it's probably best for everyone that we don't know. The 2nd part is that the league can get it out of the public eye AND crack down on these violent offenses. If they pulled the testing, the NFLPA would certainly concede some of their rights on other issues. I don't even know what the domestic violence plan is because it seems to be a moving target. This is a good chance to clean up the image of the league.
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