MDH Posted October 17, 2016 Posted October 17, 2016 (edited) Gilmore is good....but not franchise tag $14/mil/yr good. It's a tough call because Rex relies on guys who can match up in man a lot of the time. Gilmore can do that. There are certainly better guys out there than him but can the Bills land one of them? If not, who are they getting opposite of Darby and how will effect the D overall to have a weaker secondary? Edited October 17, 2016 by MDH
DrDawkinstein Posted October 17, 2016 Posted October 17, 2016 It's a tough call because Rex relies on guys who can match up in man a lot of the time. Gilmore can do that. There are certainly better guys out there than him but can the Bills land one of them? If not, who are they getting opposite of Darby and how will effect the D overall to have a weaker secondary? Yeah, the more I think about this, the more I'm coming around to the idea of the Bills paying/keeping him. He's an important piece, and we've seen too much of this CB carousel before. The cap keeps going up. We already need to draft a Safety early next year. Having Gilmore, Darby, and NRC locked up for a while would be nice. Speaking of which, I know he recently signed his extension, but someone get NRC a raise/bonus immediately!
section122 Posted October 17, 2016 Posted October 17, 2016 It's truly incredible, isn't it? We don't bat an eyelash when a journeyman like Brandon LaFell abuses a pro bowler like Malcolm Butler in the red zone yesterday, but Gilmore gives up his first TD of the season yesterday (assuming it was his mistake, which it most likely was), and he's not worth re-signing. Amazing. Bandit I think you are attributing things here that aren't necessarily the point. See below and I'll add on. WRT Gilmore... It's a tough spot for the Bills and Whaley to be in, for sure. As Bloke points out, he is our best CB. But as anyone with eyes can tell, his play hasn't warranted a top-5 contract. I guess all we can really do is watch this play out. If we let him walk (a la Clements, Byrd, Searcy, Levitre), I'll understand. If we re-sign him and prevent having that hole in the roster to fill, I'll understand too. This is where I am. Gilmore is a very good cb and getting beat is part of the job. However just from my eye balls, he isn't warranting top 5 money. It could be a case of trying to protect himself, it could be a case of the contract weighing on him, it could be many things. I think the argument against re-signing him is that money may be spent better elsewhere. I wouldn't mind Gilmore at 10 million per but I don't think that even comes close to what he gets. I don't feel really good about giving him 14 million per with what I have seen so far this year and I think that is more in the neighborhood of what he gets.
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted October 17, 2016 Posted October 17, 2016 (edited) Looked like Gilmore was thinking low route, and Darby should've taken the the other receiver. Tough to tell. AW looked lost in open field, making me think all three guys f'ed it up w/ some royal miscommunication. It was clearly Kyle Williams guyEver think He had flat responsibility and Darby had deep 3rd. Ahhhhh see how that works. Helps to know the defenseIf you look at where they lined up from the goal post cam angle Darby was deeper and across the line from 82. Gilmore was across from the slot guy 17 and closer to the line. How anyone 'knows" 82 was Gilmores guy is beyond me. Other than when Gilmore saw Darby come down to the flat he reacted first by chasing the deep guy. Edited October 17, 2016 by over 20 years of fanhood
thebandit27 Posted October 17, 2016 Posted October 17, 2016 Bandit I think you are attributing things here that aren't necessarily the point. See below and I'll add on. I wasn't speaking to the point that it may be tough to re-sign him and that it may not happen; more responding to the narrative that he somehow is always allowing big plays as some have suggested.
YoloinOhio Posted October 17, 2016 Posted October 17, 2016 @tydunne #Bills CB Stephon Gilmore: The only time somebody can beat us is if we mess up. I dont think physically or mentally anybody can beat us."
26CornerBlitz Posted October 17, 2016 Posted October 17, 2016 @TyDunne Elsewhere, #Bills CB Stephon Gilmore provided the insight on Kap: "We wanted to make him beat us with his arm, and he couldn't do that."
ROONDOGG55 Posted October 17, 2016 Posted October 17, 2016 It definitely looks like some miscommunication between Darby and Gilmore. The rest of the team is in man coverage except for Darby, but maybe with trips right and crossing patterns they're supposed to swap guys to cover any gaps. Either way, it seems like this screw up was on both of our top cover corners. I'm just glad this did not cost us the game. http://www.49ers.com/video/videos/Torrey-Smith-Scores-on-Deep-Pass-from-Kaepernick/8f04c5d0-621d-421c-ba6e-cc6545234816
section122 Posted October 17, 2016 Posted October 17, 2016 I wasn't speaking to the point that it may be tough to re-sign him and that it may not happen; more responding to the narrative that he somehow is always allowing big plays as some have suggested. ahh I see. I was misreading. I've been watching the games with my uncle over the last few weeks and Gilmore is his favorite whipping boy. I've tried explaining that you can't let the expectation of perfect cloud what is very good cb play but we are both in agreement that he isn't deserving of the monster contract that I think he will be getting.
QuoteTheRaven83 Posted October 17, 2016 Posted October 17, 2016 Gilmore is great but far from being "elite." He's not a shutdown corner and not worth the money he thinks he's worth.
Jerry Jabber Posted October 17, 2016 Posted October 17, 2016 Went ahead an edited that for ya Yesterday's miscommunication was the first TD he allowed this season (again, assuming it was his responsibility). If you have to look at a game from 4 weeks back in order to try to justify a point about a single play, then does your point really hold water? Gilmore is too inconsistent and is not worth the asking price (Top 5 CB). You can stop the fan-boy love for him.
Blokestradamus Posted October 17, 2016 Posted October 17, 2016 Gilmore is great but far from being "elite." He's not a shutdown corner and not worth the money he thinks he's worth. We need a thread starting on what exactly "shutdown" means. Everyone puts together a stat line that's allowable and I'll calculate the average.
CardinalScotts Posted October 17, 2016 Posted October 17, 2016 OK, here's another game where this so-called "elite" cornerback got burned BADLY and the result was a touchdown this time. I mean, this is supposed to be one of the best corners in the league and the play was amatuer and rookie-like. Tell me again why he's worth $100MM? im not a pay Gilmore guy but we don't know what coverage was called and who was at fault. There are so many options - what if the cross, or motions etc. Just to be fair
re enlightener Posted October 17, 2016 Posted October 17, 2016 (edited) The forum will kill you for using anything remotely specific to make an obvious point--just know that I agree. I like Gilmore, and wish he could stay a Bill, but he will not be on the team moving forward. He's a good player that someone will likely pay great player money. He's the next Jairus Byrd Nate clements(although he won't get that much of a premium). fixed Edited October 17, 2016 by re enlightener
thebandit27 Posted October 17, 2016 Posted October 17, 2016 (edited) RE: the Torrey Smith play, based on the front-7 look and the pre-snap coverage look, I'm guessing that the called coverage was 46 Zorro (from Rex's playbook). If I'm correct, then that means that the inside corner (Gilmore) has the Curl Flat assignment, and that it's Cover 3, with Darby and the 2 safeties taking the deep 1/3. See the upper-right frame below: Edited October 17, 2016 by thebandit27
Houston's #1 Bills Fan Posted October 17, 2016 Author Posted October 17, 2016 Just by the way Darby and Gilmore reacted I would say that Gilmore was confused. Darby didnt hesitate and went right for the receiver in the flat(darby could have been wrong and just reacted faster) There were a few times during the game where Gilmore was looking around before the snap like he didn't know the coverage. Exactly! Re-watch the play and notice how Gilmore gave an "OH SHIIT" head movement the moment he moved forward and the receiver blew by him. Also, Aaron Williams should have had him tackled in the flat. That's what a SAFETY is for!!! Lastly, for those saying this touchdown didn't matter, the 49ers took the lead with that play and the game was still an unknown outcome. I was furious with that play and it "could" have been a turning point. I'm glad it wasn't, but playing like that against the Patriots, Steelers, or Seahawks will not get it done!
thebandit27 Posted October 17, 2016 Posted October 17, 2016 Gilmore is too inconsistent and is not worth the asking price (Top 5 CB). You can stop the fan-boy love for him. Nice job defending your point; you've clearly supported your argument well.
CommonCents Posted October 17, 2016 Posted October 17, 2016 We need a thread starting on what exactly "shutdown" means. Everyone puts together a stat line that's allowable and I'll calculate the average. Shutdown is a loose term. Most fans seem to agree that he isn't worth top 5 money. He is a solid corner who goes under the radar for chunks of games simply because he is doing his job. At times though it is impossible to ignore his sloppy attempts at a tackle or getting beat. He has never scored a touchdown. If your the best of the best why can't you take one to the house? No one is a shutdown corner, but plenty of other corners can turn a game upside down ahead of Gilmore. He is nice but not 14m per year nice.
Blokestradamus Posted October 17, 2016 Posted October 17, 2016 Shutdown is a loose term. Most fans seem to agree that he isn't worth top 5 money. He is a solid corner who goes under the radar for chunks of games simply because he is doing his job. At times though it is impossible to ignore his sloppy attempts at a tackle or getting beat. He has never scored a touchdown. If your the best of the best why can't you take one to the house? No one is a shutdown corner, but plenty of other corners can turn a game upside down ahead of Gilmore. He is nice but not 14m per year nice. It's just frustrating that most will only focus on the bad with him, but not with others. He's a damn good corner, it's just that most don't give a **** about the 300 routes a year he takes away. In the interest of playing devil's advocate, I want to know where people plan on securing a replacement. Not "sign a free agent" or "draft someone", actual names for actual money or an actual round. In theory, not paying him is great but, unless you have a plan for replacing him, I don't want to hear it from anyone.
thebandit27 Posted October 17, 2016 Posted October 17, 2016 Exactly! Re-watch the play and notice how Gilmore gave an "OH SHIIT" head movement the moment he moved forward and the receiver blew by him. Also, Aaron Williams should have had him tackled in the flat. That's what a SAFETY is for!!! Lastly, for those saying this touchdown didn't matter, the 49ers took the lead with that play and the game was still an unknown outcome. I was furious with that play and it "could" have been a turning point. I'm glad it wasn't, but playing like that against the Patriots, Steelers, or Seahawks will not get it done! See above--there are about 6 different play call sets that could've been in play here, and under each one there are 16 different coverage combinations. Let's not let appearances be deceiving.
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