Gilmore Thread

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

I just don't think he's that much better than what we could get for less than half of what he wants. I think he's good, maybe even great at his position. But Corey white was a 680K cap hit this year... Is he significantly better than him?

 

Can we find a guy in the 2nd or 3rd who can step in and contribute? Probably. I'd rather keep Z. Brown/lorax and use that money on other people/positions.

[thebandit27]

I just don't think he's that much better than what we could get for less than half of what he wants. I think he's good, maybe even great at his position. But Corey white was a 680K cap hit this year... Is he significantly better than him?

 

 

Yes, he's significantly better than Corey White

 

 

 

Can we find a guy in the 2nd or 3rd who can step in and contribute? Probably. I'd rather keep Z. Brown/lorax and use that money on other people/positions.

 

Maybe.

 

In the 2013-2015 drafts (I just picked 3 years worth of data), there were 24 total corners drafted in rounds 2 and 3. Here are the guys that (from what I can recall) made legitimate year 1 impact:

 

Ronald Darby

Quinten Rollins

Phillip Gaines

Darius Slay

Robert Alford

Logan Ryan

 

Here's the list:

 

http://www.nfl.com/draft/history/fulldraft?position=CB&type=position

 

There may be 1 or 2 guys that were impactful that I didn't list, so feel free to check me on that. If I'm correct, then that's 6 out of 24 (25%) that had a real impact in year 1.

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

 

Yes, he's significantly better than Corey White

 

 

 

Maybe.

 

In the 2013-2015 drafts (I just picked 3 years worth of data), there were 24 total corners drafted in rounds 2 and 3. Here are the guys that (from what I can recall) made legitimate year 1 impact:

 

Ronald Darby

Quinten Rollins

Phillip Gaines

Darius Slay

Robert Alford

Logan Ryan

 

Here's the list:

 

http://www.nfl.com/draft/history/fulldraft?position=CB&type=position

 

There may be 1 or 2 guys that were impactful that I didn't list, so feel free to check me on that. If I'm correct, then that's 6 out of 24 (25%) that had a real impact in year 1.

 

Thats probably about the same or similar hit% in that round in general. I just worry about giving a big contract to a guy who seems to be in it for himself, doesn't tackle well, and can be inconsistent. We'll have a ton of holes at WR, as well as Mills and Z.Brown to re-sign.

 

It stinks to lose a good player, but there will be players released from contracts who we could target at that position, as well as wide receiver. By going after guys who are released, instead of free agents, we can keep the comp pick we'd get for gilmore.

 

Our WR depth chart next year:

 

Watkins

Listenbee

Powell

Edited October 19, 2016 by dneveu

[thebandit27]

 

Thats probably about the same or similar hit% in that round in general. I just worry about giving a big contract to a guy who seems to be in it for himself, doesn't tackle well, and can be inconsistent. We'll have a ton of holes at WR, as well as Mills and Z.Brown to re-sign.

 

It stinks to lose a good player, but there will be players released from contracts who we could target at that position, as well as wide receiver. By going after guys who are released, instead of free agents, we can keep the comp pick we'd get for gilmore.

 

Our WR depth chart next year:

 

Watkins

Listenbee

Powell

 

I don't have an issue with that approach to tell you the truth.

 

My only point is that this team needs to have a better plan in place than Seymour or Corey White if they let Gilmore walk.

 

I like the idea of picking up a cap casualty...guys that I think may fit the bill are Sam Shields, Brandon Carr, Lardarius Webb, Jason McCourty, Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie, and Alterraun Verner.

 

As to re-signing our own, I don't see a major need to re-sign Mills or Brown. While I like the way Mills has played, he was a 5th round pick that was a mid-season waiver wire pickup. There's a good chance that either Kouandjio or Henderson can play that spot, and absent that, I think there's a better chance that a mid-round rookie or mid-level veteran FA can come in and take that spot. There are a number of guys that will be available in FA that are similar to MIlls.

 

I like Zach Brown quite a bit, and while I'd like to see him re-signed, he's having a big year and will probably be expensive. If they can get him for $5M/year or less, I'd take it and then let Preston Brown walk in favor of Ragland after next season.

 

No question that WR is a big need next offseason. I also think that safety is a big need, with Aaron Williams likely to be the only guy back. Graham's release will save quite a bit of money, and he simply hasn't made many impact plays.

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

 

I don't have an issue with that approach to tell you the truth.

 

My only point is that this team needs to have a better plan in place than Seymour or Corey White if they let Gilmore walk.

 

I like the idea of picking up a cap casualty...guys that I think may fit the bill are Sam Shields, Brandon Carr, Lardarius Webb, Jason McCourty, Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie, and Alterraun Verner.

 

As to re-signing our own, I don't see a major need to re-sign Mills or Brown. While I like the way Mills has played, he was a 5th round pick that was a mid-season waiver wire pickup. There's a good chance that either Kouandjio or Henderson can play that spot, and absent that, I think there's a better chance that a mid-round rookie or mid-level veteran FA can come in and take that spot. There are a number of guys that will be available in FA that are similar to MIlls.

 

I like Zach Brown quite a bit, and while I'd like to see him re-signed, he's having a big year and will probably be expensive. If they can get him for $5M/year or less, I'd take it and then let Preston Brown walk in favor of Ragland after next season.

 

No question that WR is a big need next offseason. I also think that safety is a big need, with Aaron Williams likely to be the only guy back. Graham's release will save quite a bit of money, and he simply hasn't made many impact plays.

 

 

Graham and Kyle are the most likely two. 3.1 in dead money for about 10 million in net space. Plus the 6 we carry over thats 16 mil in space, plus whatever we were under the cap before. Certainly enough to play with to get some receivers, and a new corner.

[CommonCents]

 

I don't have an issue with that approach to tell you the truth.

 

My only point is that this team needs to have a better plan in place than Seymour or Corey White if they let Gilmore walk.

 

I like the idea of picking up a cap casualty...guys that I think may fit the bill are Sam Shields, Brandon Carr, Lardarius Webb, Jason McCourty, Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie, and Alterraun Verner.

 

As to re-signing our own, I don't see a major need to re-sign Mills or Brown. While I like the way Mills has played, he was a 5th round pick that was a mid-season waiver wire pickup. There's a good chance that either Kouandjio or Henderson can play that spot, and absent that, I think there's a better chance that a mid-round rookie or mid-level veteran FA can come in and take that spot. There are a number of guys that will be available in FA that are similar to MIlls.

 

I like Zach Brown quite a bit, and while I'd like to see him re-signed, he's having a big year and will probably be expensive. If they can get him for $5M/year or less, I'd take it and then let Preston Brown walk in favor of Ragland after next season.

 

No question that WR is a big need next offseason. I also think that safety is a big need, with Aaron Williams likely to be the only guy back. Graham's release will save quite a bit of money, and he simply hasn't made many impact plays.

So you wouldn't count on Seymour to replace Gilmore because he is unproven but your ready to move on from Preston Brown already and anoint Ragland?

 

I agree in letting Gilmore go and they are going to have to find something to replace him but why so quick on Rags? Brown and Brown fit well together until I see Ragland duplicate that level of play I'd rather keep what we have.

[thebandit27]

 

 

Graham and Kyle are the most likely two. 3.1 in dead money for about 10 million in net space. Plus the 6 we carry over thats 16 mil in space, plus whatever we were under the cap before. Certainly enough to play with to get some receivers, and a new corner.

 

Right.

 

The real question is going to be what they do at QB. Cap space won't really be an issue next year if Gilmore is allowed to walk.

So you wouldn't count on Seymour to replace Gilmore because he is unproven but your ready to move on from Preston Brown already and anoint Ragland?

 

I agree in letting Gilmore go and they are going to have to find something to replace him but why so quick on Rags? Brown and Brown fit well together until I see Ragland duplicate that level of play I'd rather keep what we have.

 

No. I'm saying that re-signing Zach this offseason would take priority over re-signing Preston the following offseason, because I believe that Ragland has closer to the same skill set that Preston has versus having the skill set of Zach.

 

The other reasons that I support this idea include that there's an overlap year between when Ragland would have to take over for Preston, and that Ragland looked like a bona fide player as a Mike 'backer in college--this is a far cry from the idea of Seymour, who never even started in college, coming in and replacing Gilmore.

Edited October 19, 2016 by thebandit27

[Coach Tuesday]

 

Right.

 

The real question is going to be what they do at QB. Cap space won't really be an issue next year if Gilmore is allowed to walk.

 

No. I'm saying that re-signing Zach this offseason would take priority over re-signing Preston the following offseason, because I believe that Ragland has closer to the same skill set that Preston has versus having the skill set of Zach.

 

The other reasons that I support this idea include that there's an overlap year between when Ragland would have to take over for Preston, and that Ragland looked like a bona fide player as a Mike 'backer in college--this is a far cry from the idea of Seymour, who never even started in college, coming in and replacing Gilmore.

 

Preston Brown is a nice player - but he's kind of a JAG. Ragland has a higher ceiling.

 

Zach Brown, on the other hand, has grown into a true playmaker. He's setting the tone for the entire defense right now and he's worth $5-$7M per year if he continues playing at this level for the rest of the season. I'd hate to see him go.

[Houston's #1 Bills Fan]

 

Preston Brown is a nice player - but he's kind of a JAG. Ragland has a higher ceiling.

 

Zach Brown, on the other hand, has grown into a true playmaker. He's setting the tone for the entire defense right now and he's worth $5-$7M per year if he continues playing at this level for the rest of the season. I'd hate to see him go.

Totally agree! Pay the man! And the LORAX, too!

[Blokestradamus]

Through 7 games:

 

Gilmore - 18 receptions for 298 yards. 0 TDs, 2 INT, 6 PD

 

Darby (in 6 games) - 26 receptions for 395 yards. 3 TDs, 0 INT, 5 PD

[MAJBobby]

Through 7 games:

 

Gilmore - 18 receptions for 298 yards. 0 TDs, 2 INT, 6 PD

 

Darby (in 6 games) - 26 receptions for 395 yards. 3 TDs, 0 INT, 5 PD

Gilmore needs to be re-signed

[Blokestradamus]

Just had a look. In the 5 weeks since that Jets game, this is Gilmore's combined stat line.

 

5 games, 9 receptions, 128 yards, 2 INT, 5 PD

 

1.8 catches per game, 25.6 yards per game. I'd call that a shutdown corner.

Edited October 25, 2016 by Blokestradamus

[thebandit27]

Just had a look. In the 5 weeks since that Jets game, this is Gilmore's combined stat line.

 

5 games, 9 receptions, 128 yards, 2 INT, 5 PD

 

1.8 catches per game, 25.6 yards per game. I'd call that a shutdown corner.

But, Fitzpatrick!!1!1!!1

[PO16FFS]

Who were the QBs?

 

Last week Dolphins rammed the ball down our throat running.

 

SG24 won't be there when it counts.

[Blokestradamus]

Who were the QBs?

 

If that was all that mattered, Darby would be performing at the same level, right?

 

14 receptions, 254 yards, 2 TD, 2 PD in one less game.

 

Or: 3.5 receptions per game, 63.5 yards per game, 0.5 TDs per game.

[8-8 Forever?]

The forum will kill you for using anything remotely specific to make an obvious point--just know that I agree. I like Gilmore, and wish he could stay a Bill, but he will not be on the team moving forward. He's a good player that someone will likely pay great player money. He's the next Jairus Byrd (although he won't get that much of a premium).

agreed. say goodbye to Gilmore. won't be here next year. cannot imagine it happening

[YoloinOhio]

@salsports

 

The Bills and Stephon Gilmore's reps haven't talked since training camp. Some details about what's going on: wgr550.com/Bills-Gilmore-

According to a source familiar with negotiations, there has been no contact between the Buffalo Bills and representatives of Stephon Gilmore since training camp when the team last offered the cornerback a multi-year deal worth an annual average of roughly $10.5 million. A separate source, speaking on condition of anonymity, said the former first-round pick is seeking a deal which would pay him among the top five players in the league at his position.

@salsports

LT: Source says Bills offered roughly $10.5M per year back in camp. Gilmore's side looking for top-5 CB $$. More in story.

Edited October 28, 2016 by YoloinOhio

[Estro]

$10.5M is more than Id even want to pay Gilmore. I think theres a team that might consider giving him $12M a year, and uf thats the case the Bills would be smart to let him walk.

 

Get a 3rd round compensatory pick and reallocate the money you saved by not signing him else where

[ALF]

I would sign him and trade him down the road if the Bills already have a good replacement for him on the roster.

 

Seeing the Panthers without Norman is scary.

[GunnerBill]

 

If that was all that mattered, Darby would be performing at the same level, right?

 

14 receptions, 254 yards, 2 TD, 2 PD in one less game.

 

Or: 3.5 receptions per game, 63.5 yards per game, 0.5 TDs per game.

 

You and your "facts" Blokes.... the lynch mob have no time for them.

 

I hope we keep Stephon Gilmore because he will not be easy to replace. I think he is better than most Bills fans realise. There does come a point money wise though... and I wouldn't give him Norman like money. $13.5m a year would be my absolute limit.