Hapless Bills Fan Posted October 14, 2016 Share Posted October 14, 2016 I don't know, how many did Denver get last year? Not digging, just asking. 9-11 wins? Denver, despite trotting out the pale facimile of Peyton Manning at QB half the season, actually had a mid-league passing game. 14th, almost 4000 yds, 12-4 Denver last year is not a good example for you. You want teams like the Vikes (11-5, 2928 passing yards, 14 passing TDs, 31st in the league passing) and Chiefs (11-5, 3255 passing yards, 20 passing TDs, 30th in the league passing). In all seriousness tho, that Chargers defense was FLYING to the ball on almost every play. They got a little gassed when Simien was making his comeback attempt (in which he played well above expectations), but held on for the win. Rexy win indeed. Also we need to steal Denvers kicker! That dude was money! He kicked a safety punt into a line men to force the fumble, and then the smoothest onside kick Ive ever seen. Im in my 20s so that dont say much but still very impressive. I agree, Denver's kicker was their best player last night. And the Chargers D was playing out of their minds. how many wins you think most teams would end up with if they produced 2800 passing yards and 16 TDs in a year? just so we can gauge how sustainable you think that is. See above post. I think the "most teams" point is a bit off; the real question is "how many wins teams that are built with stifling D and a strong run game would end up with....". But even teams with poor passing games in general manage to put on 1-2 passing clinics a year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyst Posted October 14, 2016 Share Posted October 14, 2016 how many wins you think most teams would end up with if they produced 2800 passing yards and 16 TDs in a year? just so we can gauge how sustainable you think that is.19 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maury Ballstein Posted October 14, 2016 Share Posted October 14, 2016 Tyrod is the best qb ever. I can't even tell him and Phillip Rivers apart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobobonators Posted October 14, 2016 Share Posted October 14, 2016 it looks like 19th.... i like to consider that basic range roughly average. nice, thanks for looking that up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted October 14, 2016 Share Posted October 14, 2016 See above post. I think the "most teams" point is a bit off; the real question is "how many wins teams that are built with stifling D and a strong run game would end up with....". But even teams with poor passing games in general manage to put on 1-2 passing clinics a year. oh, i get it. i just thought it was a better conversation piece than simply the stat line in the OP. you can be a good team but need 11(+) guys on defense playing lights out and a top notch running game. which gets harder and harder when you pay the qb (if we stretch the conversation all the way from single game up to actual team building). i think the crowd that wants to see some more out of the passing game isnt unfair at this point. I also think we have a team that can put up an ok record without a dominating qb (though come january if you are a WC team that has to win 3 on the road to make the big dance -- id sure like to see all of the above coming together with a full 53 producing) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackOrton Posted October 14, 2016 Share Posted October 14, 2016 ...and above average in wins For now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty McFly Posted October 14, 2016 Share Posted October 14, 2016 Tyrod is the best qb ever. I can't even tell him and Phillip Rivers apart. Bastard! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted October 14, 2016 Share Posted October 14, 2016 For now.I don't see that changing over the next few weeks. The Bills have a winning record and should continue to. They are playing a style that best suits their roster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metzelaars_lives Posted October 14, 2016 Share Posted October 14, 2016 it looks like 19th.... i like to consider that basic range roughly average.My assumption is that you assumed here that only the Bills have scored points on defense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackOrton Posted October 14, 2016 Share Posted October 14, 2016 I don't see that changing over the next few weeks. The Bills have a winning record and should continue to. They are playing a style that best suits their roster. We will face an offense we can't out score. You can't wait out the Case Keenum's of the world every week. My assumption is that you assumed here that only the Bills have scored points on defense. You know what they say about assuming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsVet Posted October 14, 2016 Share Posted October 14, 2016 ...and above average in wins The season is a marathon and not a sprint or even a middle distance event. If success were measured by the first 5 weeks of the season, plenty of teams in the past would have made the playoffs that didn't at the end of the year. the vikings went 11-5 with teddy passing for 14TD's last season. In a division full of passing offenses. Thats one If the goal is to make the playoffs, strong defense and enough offense can work. Even Dick Jauron went 13-3 in 2001 with the Bears. But it's not a plan to be a dominant team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted October 14, 2016 Share Posted October 14, 2016 (edited) I think two arguments are getting conflated here. 1. Can the Bills carry on winning this way? Great D, great ST, great run game, protect the ball and enough passing game to get by. The answer to that is sure. Plenty of teams have made the play-offs that way so long as they are consistent in other facets. Then the second question: 2. Is Tyrod playing this way enough to establish himself as our franchise Quarterback worth committing two years of guaranteed starter money to as of March next year (which is the way his current contract is structured)? The answer to that remains uncertain for me. Edited October 14, 2016 by GunnerBill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted October 14, 2016 Share Posted October 14, 2016 I think two arguments are getting conflated here. 1. Can the Bills carry on winning this way? Great D, great ST, great run game, protect the ball and enough passing game to get by. The answer to that is sure. Plenty of teams have made the play-offs that way so long as they are consistent in other facets. Then the second question: 2. Is Tyrod playing this way enough to establish himself as our franchise Quarterback worth committing two years of guaranteed starter money to as of March next year (which is the way his current contract is structured)? The answer to that remains uncertain for me. well, i think its the same issue just carrying it out from 1 week, to 10 weeks to 30 weeks (choosing random benchmarks) can we win any given week with that stat line? Surely can we win more weeks than not short term? Potentially can we win more weeks than not long term? its a longer shot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sir andrew Posted October 14, 2016 Share Posted October 14, 2016 Do you like putting fishsticks in your mouth? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r00tabaga Posted October 14, 2016 Author Share Posted October 14, 2016 I think two arguments are getting conflated here. 1. Can the Bills carry on winning this way? Great D, great ST, great run game, protect the ball and enough passing game to get by. The answer to that is sure. Plenty of teams have made the play-offs that way so long as they are consistent in other facets. Then the second question: 2. Is Tyrod playing this way enough to establish himself as our franchise Quarterback worth committing two years of guaranteed starter money to as of March next year (which is the way his current contract is structured)? The answer to that remains uncertain for me. Ding, Ding, Ding Me too. I'm close to saying yes I need to see better 3rd down & comp %. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted October 14, 2016 Share Posted October 14, 2016 oh, i get it. i just thought it was a better conversation piece than simply the stat line in the OP. you can be a good team but need 11(+) guys on defense playing lights out and a top notch running game. which gets harder and harder when you pay the qb (if we stretch the conversation all the way from single game up to actual team building). i think the crowd that wants to see some more out of the passing game isnt unfair at this point. I also think we have a team that can put up an ok record without a dominating qb (though come january if you are a WC team that has to win 3 on the road to make the big dance -- id sure like to see all of the above coming together with a full 53 producing) I'd like to see more out of the passing game myself at this point. I just like to correct the "no team wins and does playoffs without great passing" meme, great passing certainly helps but teams have been doing it without recently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevewin Posted October 14, 2016 Share Posted October 14, 2016 I never liked fish sticks. I always liked fish sticks, but my wife and kids not so much - so I've pretty much lived a fish stick free adult life Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobobonators Posted October 14, 2016 Share Posted October 14, 2016 What I personally want for this team is to have an identity. I feel that with this regime we are on our way: Pound the ball, take some calculated shots down field, limit turnovers, and play solid defense. Good defense + good running game are two ingredients that will always lead to success more times than not. In the last decade: Seattle has had years of success with a similar approach. San Francisco made a super bowl run with a similar approach. The Chiefs have gone 11-5; 9-7; and 11-5 with an almost identical approach the last 3 years. The Panthers were 24th in passing last year and 2nd in rushing and had a great defensive year - super bowl. The Jets made the AFC Championship game 2x The Vikings went 11-5 last year with a similar approach I'm missing several more, those are just the ones that clearly stand out. If you don't have an Aaron Rodgers or Tom Brady, you need to win as a team - meaning several components need to come together to have sustained success (i.e., good defense + good running game). However, I think that sometimes getting several components to come together can be easier/quicker than waiting for a "franchise QB" to come around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted October 14, 2016 Share Posted October 14, 2016 What I personally want for this team is to have an identity. I feel that with this regime we are on our way: Pound the ball, take some calculated shots down field, limit turnovers, and play solid defense. Good defense + good running game are two ingredients that will always lead to success more times than not. In the last decade: Seattle has had years of success with a similar approach. San Francisco made a super bowl run with a similar approach. The Chiefs have gone 11-5; 9-7; and 11-5 with an almost identical approach the last 3 years. The Panthers were 24th in passing last year and 2nd in rushing and had a great defensive year - super bowl. The Jets made the AFC Championship game 2x The Vikings went 11-5 last year with a similar approach I'm missing several more, those are just the ones that clearly stand out. If you don't have an Aaron Rodgers or Tom Brady, you need to win as a team - meaning several components need to come together to have sustained success (i.e., good defense + good running game). However, I think that sometimes getting several components to come together can be easier/quicker than waiting for a "franchise QB" to come around. like ive been saying, possible, but also if we dig into those.... well... if tyrod puts up 4500 all purpose yards and 45 TDs ala the cam newton season you reference i dont think anyone questions the production from the qb position. the chiefs are probably the most similar in that they are with a vet qb. Right now we are 32nd in passing YPG while the chiefs are 15, (but were 30, 29 and 22 in those 3 seasons, averaging 30-50 ypg more than we are this season). its not impossible to win games this way.... even a good number of games - but a lot does have to line up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted October 14, 2016 Share Posted October 14, 2016 (edited) We will face an offense we can't out score. You can't wait out the Case Keenum's of the world every week.You play who is on the schedule. The Bills have won 3 straight and it should continue. Hypotheticals are irrelevant. "You are what your record says you are." The season is a marathon and not a sprint or even a middle distance event. If success were measured by the first 5 weeks of the season, plenty of teams in the past would have made the playoffs that didn't at the end of the year. If the goal is to make the playoffs, strong defense and enough offense can work. Even Dick Jauron went 13-3 in 2001 with the Bears. But it's not a plan to be a dominant team. Welcome back!! This post is sunshine and rainbows for you!! I actually agree with everything that you said. I think a Trent Edwards team startedlike 4 or 5 and 0. The Bills may be a 9 or 10 win team. They are pretty good but not great. They CAN be a playoff team if they win the games that they should. Edited October 14, 2016 by Kirby Jackson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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