Bill from NYC Posted December 9, 2016 Posted December 9, 2016 When you categorize McCoy as a mistake, EVEN WITH QUALIFIERS, you're wrong. I think his contract being re-worked was a mistake. I also think that I am entitled to this opinion and that you are certainly entitled to disagree.
BADOLBILZ Posted December 9, 2016 Posted December 9, 2016 I can't believe you guys are still spending more time out of your lives with this. Shady is amazing and worth every penny. It was a great trade for the bills. Be happy. Let the haters be all sad and sit in the corner and cry like babies. I vaguely remember you posting the same thing about CJ Spiller.
BringBackOrton Posted December 9, 2016 Posted December 9, 2016 Never said it was due to talent, but there's always some reason most flame out. And he put up good numbers as a backup for a year. I know you never said that, so what was your point? "Always some reason" is a total cop out.
BADOLBILZ Posted December 9, 2016 Posted December 9, 2016 Now, if you were actually saying TD Mike and Karlos would have the same impact and the same production as Shady then I imagine you'd have plenty of people arguing against it. But you're not willing to go that far... I'm not making the assumption that they would have the same impact. It's actually happening that way though. Which goes back to my point about overbuilding one area of the team at the expense of others. In this offense, the impact of the 4 elements.... play design......the QB.....the blocking.....and the RB........RB has effectively proven to be the least important variable of the four. If this were a baseball discussion it would be about "wins above replacement". What's Shady's WAR if the spread between his production and his high carry subs is actually a net negative?
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted December 9, 2016 Posted December 9, 2016 I also think that I am entitled to this opinion and that you are certainly entitled to disagree. Yes, you have a constitutional right to be incorrect
BADOLBILZ Posted December 9, 2016 Posted December 9, 2016 It's obvious you don't understand the point. Sure a backup RB can do well in spots. It's the rare guy that can consistently do it year after year. Hence a guy like Karlos does well for a bit and then flames out for one reason or another. Gillislee is largely unproven and hopefully he's the future for the Bills at RB, but that's far from a given at this point. 1) McCoy isn't consistent......he was exceptional in 2013.....hovered around league average ypc in 2014 and 2015......and now he's a full yard per carry higher(which just so happens to be what the other two RB's have averaged). 2) If MG is the future RB of the Bills......then it's unlikely McCoy reaches either of his extension years in Buffalo.......because MG is a RFA this year and UFA the following. One of the two is leaving after 2017 and the Bills may not feel able to justify the 2nd round tender on MG this offseason. Yes, you have a constitutional right to be incorrect As much as I enjoy watching those cut backs........I also know that having a feature back as the focal point of your offense is a poor choice. It's a passing league........when you HAVE to find a way to get touches to your star RB while the rest of the league is trying to get their top receiver those touches.......you end up with less to show for it. Never was this more evident than the Miami game.........where pressured to give Shady touches......Lynn cost the team a football game. Probably the most costly loss of the year to date. It used to be throwing the ball could only result in 3 things and two were bad. Not anymore.
Bill from NYC Posted December 9, 2016 Posted December 9, 2016 Yes, you have a constitutional right to be incorrect That too
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted December 9, 2016 Posted December 9, 2016 As much as I enjoy watching those cut backs........I also know that having a feature back as the focal point of your offense is a poor choice. It's a passing league........when you HAVE to find a way to get touches to your star RB while the rest of the league is trying to get their top receiver those touches.......you end up with less to show for it. Never was this more evident than the Miami game.........where pressured to give Shady touches......Lynn cost the team a football game. Probably the most costly loss of the year to date. It used to be throwing the ball could only result in 3 things and two were bad. Not anymore. That I won't debate. But TT is simply incapable of passing the ball like an NFL QB should be able to.
BADOLBILZ Posted December 9, 2016 Posted December 9, 2016 That I won't debate. But TT is simply incapable of passing the ball like an NFL QB should be able to. When Rex got to Buffalo he said the most important needs were: 1) another big, playmaking WR 2) a nose tackle They then proceeded to impulse spend their chips on EVERYTHING ELSE. McCoy is going to end up costing $10M per year and Dareus $16M per year to fill positions worth about $6M combined in job value.
BADOLBILZ Posted December 9, 2016 Posted December 9, 2016 That is not what I said. I said he is here no matter what next season and he is likely here the year after as well. On the back of this season he would have to really slump in 2017 to be cut before the 2018 season... do you not agree? So if he reverts to rushing for a yard less per game than the other backs, not scoring TD's, a liability in short yardage and being in and out of the lineup for the next two seasons that justifies $8.25M per year for a RB....is this what you are saying? I think what we have in this thread is people trying to claim I'm wrong while just never really making clear what their expectations were or are. What will it take to justify the extension? Kudos to you if your honest because our boy Greggo is so worried about goalposts that he hasn't bothered to determine where his end zone is.
26CornerBlitz Posted December 9, 2016 Posted December 9, 2016 @NFLGameDay Rushing Receiving Here are the most versatile RBs in the NFL:
The Big Cat Posted December 9, 2016 Posted December 9, 2016 @NFLGameDay Rushing Receiving Here are the most versatile RBs in the NFL: Yeah, but that contract...
GunnerBill Posted December 9, 2016 Posted December 9, 2016 Never was this more evident than the Miami game.........where pressured to give Shady touches......Lynn cost the team a football game. Probably the most costly loss of the year to date. I think you might have your games mixed up. McCoy only rushed 8 times that game and when he went out they only ran MG 5 times. If anything I thought they abandoned the run too easily in Miami.
BADOLBILZ Posted December 9, 2016 Posted December 9, 2016 I think you might have your games mixed up. McCoy only rushed 8 times that game and when he went out they only ran MG 5 times. If anything I thought they abandoned the run too easily in Miami. I don't have my games mixed up, he shouldn't have been playing at all. They wasted important drives catering to him that day. Gillislee was poised to tear that Dolphin D up.....his numbers that day are tamped by that bizarre wildcat call late in the game but he was his usual, highly productive self. When Gillislee had a sore hammy though.......they sat him. Because they COULD. When McCoy says he's playing, he is getting the carries for good or bad.
GunnerBill Posted December 9, 2016 Posted December 9, 2016 I don't have my games mixed up, he shouldn't have been playing at all. They wasted important drives catering to him that day. Gillislee was poised to tear that Dolphin D up.....his numbers that day are tamped by that bizarre wildcat call late in the game but he was his usual, highly productive self. When Gillislee had a sore hammy though.......they sat him. Because they COULD. When McCoy says he's playing, he is getting the carries for good or bad. Ahh sorry. I misunderstood. I thought you were saying they should have been throwing it more. I agree Shady should not have been out there against Miami.
Doc Posted December 10, 2016 Posted December 10, 2016 I know you never said that, so what was your point? "Always some reason" is a total cop out. You can call it what you like. But great RB's aren't defined by a good season or two as a backup. 1) McCoy isn't consistent......he was exceptional in 2013.....hovered around league average ypc in 2014 and 2015......and now he's a full yard per carry higher(which just so happens to be what the other two RB's have averaged). 2) If MG is the future RB of the Bills......then it's unlikely McCoy reaches either of his extension years in Buffalo.......because MG is a RFA this year and UFA the following. One of the two is leaving after 2017 and the Bills may not feel able to justify the 2nd round tender on MG this offseason. McCoy is consistently one of the best RB's in the NFL. Ask anyone who are the top 3 RBs the past 5 years and you'll hear his name more often than not.
BringBackOrton Posted December 10, 2016 Posted December 10, 2016 You can call it what you like. But great RB's aren't defined by a good season or two as a backup. McCoy is consistently one of the best RB's in the NFL. Ask anyone who are the top 3 RBs the past 5 years and you'll hear his name more often than not. That's the point.... are you trolling me right now?
baskingridgebillsfan Posted December 10, 2016 Posted December 10, 2016 I am confused because Mike Schoop said running back like McCoy don't matter
Doc Posted December 10, 2016 Posted December 10, 2016 That's the point.... are you trolling me right now? The point is that McCoy is an elite back and Karlos and Gillislee had decent production as backups and Karlos' career is probably over while Gillislee still has a ton to prove? Okay, great. We're on the same page.
BringBackOrton Posted December 10, 2016 Posted December 10, 2016 (edited) The point is that McCoy is an elite back and Karlos and Gillislee had decent production as backups and Karlos' career is probably over while Gillislee still has a ton to prove? Okay, great. We're on the same page. Yes, and both those dudes put up comparable production in this run game without Shady's pedigree or paycheck. Edited December 10, 2016 by jmc12290
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