nucci Posted September 30, 2016 Posted September 30, 2016 I am not ready to give up on Rex, however I do have to admit having a combo of Hue and Schwartz sounds pretty good right about now. What Schwartz is doing for Philly is exactly what we need right now on defense and ironically is exactly what he did for us in his one year here too. I don't think I have ever missed a Coordinator as much as I miss Schwartz. Ryan could turn things around but this team was closer to contention in 2014 than they are now.
Rico Posted September 30, 2016 Posted September 30, 2016 Huh? Marrone has been an utter failure in Jacksonville...I mean he couldn't be doing a worse job. I'm not a Marrone fan AT ALL, but Whaley was/is more of a problem. If they got a legitimate czar/GM to run things, (theoretically)Pegs wouldn't be hiring coaches and (theoretically) Brandon would truly be out of the picture. Marrone would most likely have been gone after 2015, and the team as a whole would be much further along then they are now.
hondo in seattle Posted September 30, 2016 Posted September 30, 2016 If were being honest here. Outside of maybe 1 or 2 good FA pickups his drafts and personnel decisions have been below average. I see people every day claiming how he is one of the "best GM's in football". What a load of crap. What exactly has this guy done to get that title? Idc what you say, he drafted EJ. Picking a 1st round QB in possibly the worst QB class in the last 15 years was awful decision making. He then supported EJ and tried to get him weapons, that ended up failing big time. Watkins has been an injury prone nightmare. His 2016 draft has already had 2 guys out for the year and 1 guy who will miss half. Karlos williams was a disaster. Darby has prob been his best pick but he has only had 1 good season. Our WR depth and oline depth is a complete joke, he has done NOTHING to address this so far. Sammy went into training camp injured and we still didn't pick anyone up. Clay has been a waste of money, and McCoy is aging fast. Whaley is not the guy that should be staying with this team for the future. We are 1-2 soon to be 1-3 and does anyone really see this team making the playoffs this year? What do we even have to look forward to? Does anyone trust this guy picking another QB in the draft? B/c I don't. Even before Rex, Whaley should be gone. New GM can find his own staff and scouts. Whaley is a bad GM? Now here's an original opinion that deserves a new thread.
DriveFor1Outta5 Posted September 30, 2016 Posted September 30, 2016 I think this team would be much better off if Whaley didn't have to deal with a complete breakup of the defense he built in 2014. He could have used those resources to upgrade the offense instead of having to spend many picks on defensive players for Ryan's system. True, but if you believe that then you have to ask yourself who runs this team? Doesn't that mean Rex is the GM then? If Rex isn't, and Whaley had to disassemble what he built for Rex, then Whaley made a bad hire.
BuffaloMatt Posted September 30, 2016 Posted September 30, 2016 Drafting Shaq and trading for McCoy were both questionable at best as well. I also know hindsight yada yada, but drafting trading up for Sammy is proving to be a disaster in light of the other WRs that would have been around if we stayed out. The trade for Shady was good for many reasons but thats a different thread. With Shaq I have to agree with you in that the injury seemed to be well known and then DW's presser immediately after draft in hind sight throws gas on fire. Without the presser that Shaq is day one starter I think all of us would rationalize away the loss of 1/2 of Shaq's rookie season.
Don't stop billievein Posted September 30, 2016 Posted September 30, 2016 The talent has not won anymore than Donahoe's talent did though. He assembled talent as well. We have no WR depth. Reached for Manuel, which was a terrible pick. I could go on and on. It won't change how anyone feels, but this league is about winning. Every NFL team has talent. These guys were all good in college. If Donahoe takes Aaron Rodgers instead of JP Losman we would probably be Praising him as a legend and walking by his statue at the stadium. That's the difference between a GM who knows talent and one who listens to Mel kiper and Todd mcshay for draft advice. I'm not saying Whaley is inept, I am saying that he has made some questionable choices and also has had some bad luck.
PromoTheRobot Posted October 1, 2016 Posted October 1, 2016 If were being honest here. Outside of maybe 1 or 2 good FA pickups his drafts and personnel decisions have been below average. I see people every day claiming how he is one of the "best GM's in football". What a load of crap. What exactly has this guy done to get that title? Idc what you say, he drafted EJ. Picking a 1st round QB in possibly the worst QB class in the last 15 years was awful decision making. He then supported EJ and tried to get him weapons, that ended up failing big time. Watkins has been an injury prone nightmare. His 2016 draft has already had 2 guys out for the year and 1 guy who will miss half. Karlos williams was a disaster. Darby has prob been his best pick but he has only had 1 good season. Our WR depth and oline depth is a complete joke, he has done NOTHING to address this so far. Sammy went into training camp injured and we still didn't pick anyone up. Clay has been a waste of money, and McCoy is aging fast. Whaley is not the guy that should be staying with this team for the future. We are 1-2 soon to be 1-3 and does anyone really see this team making the playoffs this year? What do we even have to look forward to? Does anyone trust this guy picking another QB in the draft? B/c I don't. Even before Rex, Whaley should be gone. New GM can find his own staff and scouts. Thanks for sharing.
May Day 10 Posted October 1, 2016 Posted October 1, 2016 Whaley is really good at identifying defensive talent. Everywhere else he falls way short.
GunnerBill Posted October 1, 2016 Posted October 1, 2016 (edited) I am a Whaley fan and here is what I think he deserves credit for: - Letting the right players walk (Byrd, Levitre, CJ). They had values at which they would bring those guys back and when they didn't match the values they let them go. - Paying the premium position guys (LT -Glenn, Disruptive DT - Dareus, Pass Rusher - Hughes) and if he can "prove it" the way the contract is set up he will have tied down a Quarterback but he hasn't tied us to him if he fails this year. - Excellent dust settles and street FA pickups. From Zach Brown, to Corbin Bryant to Chris Hogan, to Lorenzo Alexander, to Stefan Charles, to Jordan Mills, to TD Mike, the Bills have added not only solid depth guys this way but starters and serious contributors. His record in this aspect of the job is legitimately in the top half dozen or so in the league. - A generally decent talent evaluator in the draft. The reach for EJ not withstanding only Kujo looks a bust of the picks he has spent on the first 3 rounds and he has picked up some good players in later rounds even if not all remain on the team for various reasons. I was a big Shaq Lawson guy pre-draft and am convinced the wait will be worth it. - the trades. Hughes for Sheppard the obvious one, and whilst I understand the Watkins deal haters I don't agree with them. I was a bit unsure myself originly but Watkins is a special talent. Here is what I think he deserves critcism for: - Whatever part he played in the EJ decision. Don't mind them taking a shot and actually once Buddy was tricked into bad mouthing Fitz on a recording they had to take a shot. But you can't stand here knowing what we know and say it was anything other than disappointing and a reach for need. - Charles Clay. Look I get it he is one kf the few genuine do it all tight ends in the league and this offense needs that type of guy. The contract they gave him was stupid and I know the huge guaranteed money in year 2 was the stop the Dolphins matching but it was too much for a guy of his talent. At one stage it was a highee guaranteed % than any non-rookie deal QB in the league. Nonsense. - I don't hate McCoy and I don't subscribe to running backs are all ten a penny.... but the contract isn't great. - Receiver depth this year. They let a better player go than most here realised when Hogan walked. He is significantly better than any non Watkins or Woods receiver on this team and he and Woods are very close ability wise. Not properly replacing him hurts. I get the cap was tight... but we are feeling the effects of limited passing options. Things Whaley is not to blame for: - Sammy Watkins' injuries - Reggie Ragland's injury - He is also not the main culprit for the hire of Rex Ryan. That was the owners. Overall I still believe he is in credit but he has made some mistakes. If Rex goes in January I suspect Doug goes too (he will get another GM shot somewhere at some stage) but if Rex goes and Doug stays the next Head Coach must be HIS choice. No more coaching hires foisted upon him by management. Whaley is really good at identifying defensive talent. Everywhere else he falls way short. Totally rebuilt the offensive line in 2 years in a pretty nice way. Edited October 1, 2016 by GunnerBill
The Big Cat Posted October 1, 2016 Posted October 1, 2016 Thank god the Bills had some bad news this week. In the days following the win, some familiar faces really didn't know what to do with themselves, aside from make scarce.
nucci Posted October 1, 2016 Posted October 1, 2016 True, but if you believe that then you have to ask yourself who runs this team? Doesn't that mean Rex is the GM then? If Rex isn't, and Whaley had to disassemble what he built for Rex, then Whaley made a bad hire. I think Rex has more power than Whaley right now. Why would Pegula not go to Whaley with concerns about the coaching staff? There was no comment from Whaley at all about the Roman firing. I still believe that Pegula and Brandon hired Ryan, not Whaley. After Marrone left the Bills needed offensive help....why would he hire a defensive head coach with a completely different system?
JohnC Posted October 1, 2016 Posted October 1, 2016 I'll never fault the organization for the EJ pick. They didn't have anything that resembled a possible franchise QB, so they took the guy they felt had the best chance. There are people on this board that absolutely skewer the team for not drafting QBs and taking as many bites at the apple as they need in order to get it right, yet the one time they do pick a QB they get flamed for that as well. The bigger fault, IMO, is not hedging their bet on EJ and bringing in another potential franchise guy in case he didn't work out. I disagree with your position on the EJ pick. My problem with the EJ selection is not that he was selected that year but that he was taken in the first round instead of the third round where his talent level indicated where he should have been drafted. If other teams would have taken him in a higher round then so be it. That draft class for qbs was poor. Reaching for him in the first round was the problem with that selection. But to be fair that selection could have have been Nix's pick. Whaley properly ranked the qbs that year but taking him in the first round was a mistake. The irony is that as much criticism EJ has absorbed he might end up having a long and prosperous career as a good backup in this league. In general, I believe that Whaley is a solid GM. Is he a top tier GM? I would say no but I do believe that he is a good GM. The attribute that makes him a good GM is the same attribute that makes him a questionable GM: Not afraid to take chances to improve the roster. The Watkins selection and giving up picks to move up falls in that category of being aggressive in addressing the roster. In this league what elevates a GM, fairly or not, is having a good franchise qb taking the snaps. With a high end qb you can make mistakes and have holes in your roster and still be successful. In my view one of the main systemic problems that he has had to contend with is the lackluster HCs he has had to work with. Both Marrone and Rex were/are not in sync with him. I don't believe that neither coach was his preferred choice. Overall, I am glad he is our GM. He has upgraded the front office staff and modernized the operation. I very much hope that he isn't victimized by losing his job because of the caliber of the current loquacious coach.
Niagara Dude Posted October 1, 2016 Posted October 1, 2016 If were being honest here. Outside of maybe 1 or 2 good FA pickups his drafts and personnel decisions have been below average. I see people every day claiming how he is one of the "best GM's in football". What a load of crap. What exactly has this guy done to get that title? Idc what you say, he drafted EJ. Picking a 1st round QB in possibly the worst QB class in the last 15 years was awful decision making. He then supported EJ and tried to get him weapons, that ended up failing big time. Watkins has been an injury prone nightmare. His 2016 draft has already had 2 guys out for the year and 1 guy who will miss half. Karlos williams was a disaster. Darby has prob been his best pick but he has only had 1 good season. Our WR depth and oline depth is a complete joke, he has done NOTHING to address this so far. Sammy went into training camp injured and we still didn't pick anyone up. Clay has been a waste of money, and McCoy is aging fast. Whaley is not the guy that should be staying with this team for the future. We are 1-2 soon to be 1-3 and does anyone really see this team making the playoffs this year? What do we even have to look forward to? Does anyone trust this guy picking another QB in the draft? B/c I don't. Even before Rex, Whaley should be gone. New GM can find his own staff and scouts. Whaley should be fired , the guy is a joke and the two moves #1 drafting EJ and then trading picks to get Sammy are franchise killers. No excuse on Sammy move because that draft was loaded with WR talent. You make those kind of moves to get QB'S not WR'S when you don have anyone to throw him the ball. Get someone that gets it, you need a QB first.
BillsVet Posted October 1, 2016 Posted October 1, 2016 Some posters deal in baseless extremes instead of rational, measured, and well thought out fact based argument. Is a 24-27 record as GM and having the most resources to work with in franchise history irrational?
Alphadawg7 Posted October 1, 2016 Posted October 1, 2016 The trade for Shady was good for many reasons but thats a different thread. With Shaq I have to agree with you in that the injury seemed to be well known and then DW's presser immediately after draft in hind sight throws gas on fire. Without the presser that Shaq is day one starter I think all of us would rationalize away the loss of 1/2 of Shaq's rookie season. Ok, here is my exact point in my other thread about the medical staff and what I mentioned here. Whaley is NOT a physician by any means. Whaley did NOT make a diagnosis on his availability or his shoulder. Our Medcial staff did...Rex, Whaley, and the Medical Staff have all said this publicly right after the draft. But here we are again blaming Whaley because our medical staff screwed something else up. So I will ask the question again...when does the training and medical staff start getting held accountable for mistakes?
Tenhigh Posted October 1, 2016 Posted October 1, 2016 Is a 24-27 record as GM and having the most resources to work with in franchise history irrational? There's ol' Mr. Sunshine himself!
John from Riverside Posted October 1, 2016 Posted October 1, 2016 Whaley is really good at identifying defensive talent. Everywhere else he falls way short. Really? I dont think so....I think he is BETTER at finding defensive talent.....but he has found some gems on the offense side of the ball in my opinion
GG Posted October 1, 2016 Posted October 1, 2016 If Donahoe takes Aaron Rodgers instead of JP Losman we would probably be Praising him as a legend and walking by his statue at the stadium. That's the difference between a GM who knows talent and one who listens to Mel kiper and Todd mcshay for draft advice. I'm not saying Whaley is inept, I am saying that he has made some questionable choices and also has had some bad luck. To correct this again, Bills were not going to pick Rodgers. Donahoe is probably still kicking Houston & Jax for not dealing the pick.
Bleeding Bills Blue Posted October 1, 2016 Posted October 1, 2016 (edited) On April 30th, everyone blew up that we had the best draft in 10 years. We added need and value. Shaq is hurt - that sucks, but he was a top 3 pass rusher in the class. Ragland is hurt - Also sucks, but he was a projected starting MLB, thumping tackler, and leader. Washington - He's been pretty good Cardale - We drafted a project QB, who actually has ability and isn't some Jeff Tuel loser. Jonathan Williams - at the time seemed dumb, now that we've cut Karlos, seems like a smart move Listenbee - Upside receiver with a pre-existing injury- non-issue since at least half the round is practice squad guys Seymour - Solid depth CB who made our active roster over a few FA pickups Even with the injuries - its a freakin good draft! Couple it with Corey white and Zach Brown signings who have both been solid. Oh - and keeping Glenn last year. Negotiating a solid TT deal that has team protection. He's set the team up as best he can without a QB. There wasn't one to draft at 19 anyway. Edited October 1, 2016 by dneveu
Yeezus Posted October 1, 2016 Author Posted October 1, 2016 Really? I dont think so....I think he is BETTER at finding defensive talent.....but he has found some gems on the offense side of the ball in my opinion LOL Like who? Who has Whaley discovered thats so special on the offense? Rex brought Tyrod in, only credit Whaley gets is Richie, which again might have been Rex's idea.
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