DrDawkinstein Posted October 3, 2016 Posted October 3, 2016 Whaley seems to have a knack for finding talent in Free Agency and drafting some good players specially the mid to later rounds who end up being ballers. On the other hand, he has made some pretty big high profile gambles that haven't paid off. Clearly EJ was a huge whiff. Watkins, is a great talent but we did give up too much to get him, even if he hadn't have been injured there were some good wide receivers that year that would are nearly as talented and have been more productive than he has where we wouldn't have had to give up the farm to get them. Just imagine, we could have had another WR just as good and have had another first round and fourth round talent to add to the team. I know I know, hindsight is 20/20 but in professional sports that is a way you judge these guys. Blaming Whaley for Ragland is ludicrous but there is some validity to the criticism he's received on Shaq, it was reported he had issues with his shoulder. If Shaq turns out to be a pro bowl or near pro bowl consistent player, then he'll be justified with his selection, but if Shaq turns out to be another run-of-the-mill sort of player, it will be yet another disappointing first round selection. My personal view is that he has done enough to remain in his role but the time is ticking. Not trying to be a Whaley fan-boy, but I really dont understand how people call that pick such a "gamble" or a reach. We traded down once and picked up a 2nd round pick, and we had our first choice of all the QBs. Granted, it was a crappy class, but we hedged that bet big-time with the trade down. EJ would not have been available at our pick in the 2nd, and I realize it's not a great comparison, but Geno Smith (and every QB after him) have been even worse. Us fans have begged this team to take more high shots at QBs, then they do, and we bash that too. I see that pick as a straight wash. Gotta take QBs, we finagled an extra pick out of it, EJ didnt work out. Move on.
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted October 3, 2016 Posted October 3, 2016 Not trying to be a Whaley fan-boy, but I really dont understand how people call that pick such a "gamble" or a reach. We traded down once and picked up a 2nd round pick, and we had our first choice of all the QBs. Granted, it was a crappy class, but we hedged that bet big-time with the trade down. EJ would not have been available at our pick in the 2nd, and I realize it's not a great comparison, but Geno Smith (and every QB after him) have been even worse. Us fans have begged this team to take more high shots at QBs, then they do, and we bash that too. I see that pick as a straight wash. Gotta take QBs, we finagled an extra pick out of it, EJ didnt work out. Move on. I don't think the EJ pick was a bad idea. Just bad luck doing it in a year when it was a weak QB year.
DrDawkinstein Posted October 3, 2016 Posted October 3, 2016 I don't think the EJ pick was a bad idea. Just bad luck doing it in a year when it was a weak QB year. Word. And instead of panicking and taking a QB at #9 anyways, our FO stayed savvy and worked an extra pick out of the deal (which, btw, was used for major value. Kiko/Shady).
Jobot Posted October 3, 2016 Posted October 3, 2016 If were being honest here. Outside of maybe 1 or 2 good FA pickups his drafts and personnel decisions have been below average. I see people every day claiming how he is one of the "best GM's in football". What a load of crap. What exactly has this guy done to get that title? Idc what you say, he drafted EJ. Picking a 1st round QB in possibly the worst QB class in the last 15 years was awful decision making. He then supported EJ and tried to get him weapons, that ended up failing big time. Watkins has been an injury prone nightmare. His 2016 draft has already had 2 guys out for the year and 1 guy who will miss half. Karlos williams was a disaster. Darby has prob been his best pick but he has only had 1 good season. Our WR depth and oline depth is a complete joke, he has done NOTHING to address this so far. Sammy went into training camp injured and we still didn't pick anyone up. Clay has been a waste of money, and McCoy is aging fast. Whaley is not the guy that should be staying with this team for the future. We are 1-2 soon to be 1-3 and does anyone really see this team making the playoffs this year? What do we even have to look forward to? Does anyone trust this guy picking another QB in the draft? B/c I don't. Even before Rex, Whaley should be gone. New GM can find his own staff and scouts. Go Home, no one cares for your uninformed opinion.
Magox Posted October 3, 2016 Posted October 3, 2016 (edited) Not trying to be a Whaley fan-boy, but I really dont understand how people call that pick such a "gamble" or a reach. We traded down once and picked up a 2nd round pick, and we had our first choice of all the QBs. Granted, it was a crappy class, but we hedged that bet big-time with the trade down. EJ would not have been available at our pick in the 2nd, and I realize it's not a great comparison, but Geno Smith (and every QB after him) have been even worse. Us fans have begged this team to take more high shots at QBs, then they do, and we bash that too. I see that pick as a straight wash. Gotta take QBs, we finagled an extra pick out of it, EJ didnt work out. Move on. You are making an argument partially based on semantics and the other based off of essentially letting him off the hook for a poor first round selection. Semantics in that I used the word gamble, and you have issues with that term. Sorry, but virtually every talent evaluator didn't see Manuel as a first round talent and we gambled in selecting him anyway essentially out of pure need. I don't believe that, I've had this discussion with my father a bazillion times, drafting need vs drafting the board. So yes, it was a gamble. And no, it's not a matter of "EJ didn't work out, Move on." If we were a team that has made the playoffs, then I'd agree with you. But we haven't. So, simply just Moving on is not how you judge GM's. You judge them at the end of the day with results. I made it clear in my post that I think he is a good talent evaluator and that he has made some really good decisions that have helped the team, but the fact remains that two of our first round selections have not panned out as of yet. We can make all the excuses we want for Watkins, but at the end of the day, he has not been worth the gamble. Maybe that will change, but that's the bottom line. Again, I think he deserves to remain in the role because from my perspective he seems to have a good eye for talent but his leash is getting shorter. Edited October 3, 2016 by Magox
PromoTheRobot Posted October 3, 2016 Posted October 3, 2016 As I was watching today's game, noting that none of Whaley's top picks were playing, Sammy, Sammy and Shaq (I've always felt that although Doug probably picked which QB we took in 2013, Buddy dictated that it would be a QB - well, I just read Ed's post above before I hit post and I see he feels the same), and I couldn't help but marvel at the team he has constructed despite not having his own 1st round picks on the field. Then I thought of this thread. C'mon Man! Fun fact: GMs are judged for all players signed, not just 1st rounders.
Hapless Bills Fan Posted October 3, 2016 Posted October 3, 2016 Based on what Schwartz did with our defense I cannot fathom anyway that he was going to stay here and remain a coordinator if they hired another coach. I believe that based upon what he did with the Bills D that he felt that he deserved another shot at head coach. I can't fault him for that. He clearly felt that, but as HC position after position filled and he wasn't getting the calls, he might well have preferred to improve his coaching resume with a 2nd successful year as DC vs. working for the NFL if he was agreeable with the HC
Best Player Available Posted October 3, 2016 Posted October 3, 2016 I don't think the EJ pick was a bad idea. Just bad luck doing it in a year when it was a weak QB year. having your GM catfished sometimes forces your hand.
Hapless Bills Fan Posted October 10, 2016 Posted October 10, 2016 Yes, like polian used to. It's not a good idea. So Polian follows your advice and we don't draft either Kelly or Thurman Thomas? having your GM catfished sometimes forces your hand. Horsefeathers. Having your GM and coach make a decision to move on from the QB you signed forces your hand. Otherwise you don't negotiate from the premise the guy is a backup QB now.
26CornerBlitz Posted October 10, 2016 Posted October 10, 2016 The deeper we move into the 2016 season, the dumber this thread looks.
BringBackOrton Posted October 10, 2016 Posted October 10, 2016 (edited) The deeper we move into the 2016 season, the dumber this thread looks. 1 game over .500. Let's not be too hasty. Or we may have the next Saint Doug. Edited October 10, 2016 by jmc12290
PromoTheRobot Posted October 10, 2016 Posted October 10, 2016 1 game over .500. Let's not be too hasty. Or we may have the next Saint Doug.Keep rooting for failure.
BringBackOrton Posted October 10, 2016 Posted October 10, 2016 Keep rooting for failure. Cautious optimism Promo. You dance on so many graves so early, and you may fall in one.
26CornerBlitz Posted October 10, 2016 Posted October 10, 2016 1 game over .500. Let's not be too hasty. Or we may have the next Saint Doug. It's not even a matter of what the record is from a GM perspective. I'm looking at the talent that has been acquired.
PromoTheRobot Posted October 10, 2016 Posted October 10, 2016 Cautious optimism Promo. You dance on so many graves so early, and you may fall in one.I enjoy winning. It's fun.
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