jahnyc Posted September 30, 2016 Posted September 30, 2016 We do not have a real #2 WR on the roster right now (maybe not even a starting caliber #3 or #4). Should have been addressed in the offseason.
thebandit27 Posted September 30, 2016 Posted September 30, 2016 yeah. But Timmy wasn't a first round pick by the Sabres. They didn't give away 2 first rounders and a 4th to get him. They traded away an aging Michael Peca. Revisionist history here. Peca was 27 years old and was the captain of the team and one of their leading scorers It's funny how similar Watkins and Juilliard Jones careers are. Jones missed 3 games in his first 2 years and then missed 11 in his 3rd year because of the foot fracture. Guess Julio Jones is a kitty too, according to some. I've often made the comparison too Am I really reading comparisons between Sammy and Tim Connolly? OK. Crazy isn't it? it is ridiculous. AJ green had foot problems too. Eventually they get better, they come back, and they are great. The problem is not Sammy. The problem is the lack of depth behind him to fill in while he is out coupled with the level of QB play to elevate the play of those WRs. Forgot about Green--was his a Jones' as well? no in that case comparing Goodwin to Connolly would be more accurate. Never thought of this before, but it's pretty close IMO
DriveFor1Outta5 Posted September 30, 2016 Posted September 30, 2016 (edited) Wow just 6? The board would have you believe hes missing 6 games per season. Rex also said that the foot is a "major concern" going forward. You make a good point, it's not like he missed a couple seasons. My concern would is it becoming a long term nagging concern. If he can't play through it now, who's to say it will get better in the future? Another poster brough up a good point as well. I watch a lot of college football, and the Sammy that we've seen in Buffalo doesn't resemble the Sammy I saw at Clemson. I'm not simply talking about production either. I haven't seen the speed and explosiveness he had in college since he's been here. More games than not he has ran with a slight limp.I don't believe the guy has ever been healthy here. Who can forget Shazier leveling him his rookie year? Edited September 30, 2016 by DriveFor1Outta5
norton20 Posted September 30, 2016 Posted September 30, 2016 (edited) my understanding is that they wanted to try and see if it would heal without surgery first. Fairly common with these injuries. Putting screw into a foot shouldn't be a "first resort". They can sometimes heal with rest. His didn't so they did it within enough time to return for some of camp. My understanding is he was fully healed going into season. His foot was stepped on the Monday after jets game and he had a setback. It also may have been very sore at end of jets game, not sure why he missed last 2 series. Important to keep in mind that there is a difference between being able to play from a medical safety standpoint and being able to play from an effectiveness standpoint. If he can't hurt the foot any further by playing but also cant make the cuts and be effective, he can't really help the team by being on the field. If it was a playoff game you probably put him out there as a decoy at worst. But in week 4 you rest it and hope he can return. Thank you for the information. I appreciate it. I agree that waiting to see if it heals before doing surgery is understandable. My only caveat is if that would put the season in jeopardy. As you say, even with a very late in the offseason surgery, he did get back for camp. I do question though how healthy he really was. He didn't look right against Baltimore and looked like a shell of himself against the Jets. That was before he got stepped on. It is my understanding that there is more than a normal chance of re-injury with this type of surgery and thus being absolutely sure of his health was critical before putting him out there or working him aggressively in pre season practices. I agree with you totally about the "ready from a medical standpoint" vs effectiveness issue. It seemed clear that even if medically ready he was not effective as he would be if healthy. This has the look of a lost season for Watkins. He is (was?) a critical part of their offense and not being totally sure of his health going into camp and the season seems like a major faux pas. Edited September 30, 2016 by norton20
Wayne Cubed Posted September 30, 2016 Posted September 30, 2016 I've often made the comparison Here's to hoping Watkins, production wise, continues on the same career trajectory.
BreezeMafia Posted September 30, 2016 Author Posted September 30, 2016 Who is responsible for announcing who is active / not active? Is it Rex, Whaley, both?
BuffaloHokie13 Posted September 30, 2016 Posted September 30, 2016 Who is responsible for announcing who is active / not active? Is it Rex, Whaley, both? Clearly it's Russ Brandon.
mrags Posted September 30, 2016 Posted September 30, 2016 no in that case comparing Goodwin to Connolly would be more accurate.oh god. We already have enough ill feelings towards our "star" WR right now. Don't get me started on the scrub. Lol Revisionist history here. Peca was 27 years old and was the captain of the team and one of their leading scorers You are the hockey guru so I will step back and concede to your knowledge but it would appear statistically that he was on the downside of his career. http://www.hockey-reference.com/players/p/pecami01.html
K-9 Posted September 30, 2016 Posted September 30, 2016 (edited) oh god. We already have enough ill feelings towards our "star" WR right now. Don't get me started on the scrub. Lol You are the hockey guru so I will step back and concede to your knowledge but it would appear statistically that he was on the downside of his career. http://www.hockey-reference.com/players/p/pecami01.html He had his best year point wise in his first season after the trade. He was in his prime, actually. But Peca's game wasn't about his offensive production, anyway. He was the NHL equivalent of a shut down corner. Edited September 30, 2016 by K-9
BobbyC81 Posted September 30, 2016 Posted September 30, 2016 Did he drop a bag of cotton balls on it this time? Truly amazing this guy can't get on the field. Unbelievable talent....that doesn't do us any good from the locker room. I remember Rex saying somebody stepped on Sammy's foot during walk through last Friday and that player has been released. Based on the timing it must've been Chris Martin. An already sore foot stepped on by an O-lineman likely made it worse.
YoloinOhio Posted September 30, 2016 Posted September 30, 2016 I remember Rex saying somebody stepped on Sammy's foot during walk through last Friday and that player has been released. Based on the timing it must've been Chris Martin. An already sore foot stepped on by an O-lineman likely made it worse.it was a joke that they released the player who stepped on his foot.
BobbyC81 Posted September 30, 2016 Posted September 30, 2016 Those two statements, served up back-to-back, are simply astonishing. What do you consider a bust? I'd be flabbergasted if there's anyone on the football-watching planet that considers a 2nd-year player amassing over 1,000 yards and 9 TDs in 13 games "bust" status. That's without the added context that he played for the team that attempted the fewest passes in the NFL, and lead the league in yards/target. You can say that you're disappointed with his production given how much they gave up to get him, and I'd at least understand that. The bold statement, however, does not hold water in any way, shape, or form. That's why I hated the trade. They had questionable quarterbacking back then. Then they hire a coach who wants to play ground-and-pound. Same with all the money thrown at Clay and they don't throw to him.
thebandit27 Posted September 30, 2016 Posted September 30, 2016 That's why I hated the trade. They had questionable quarterbacking back then. Then they hire a coach who wants to play ground-and-pound. Same with all the money thrown at Clay and they don't throw to him. Organizational disconnect like you're talking about here is a totally reasonable criticism IMO, and it's probably the bets argument for a house-cleaning.
bobobonators Posted September 30, 2016 Posted September 30, 2016 I think im going to give it one more year before i say "i hated the pick" or sammy is a bust. When he's played, he's put up some decent numbers. He had been a WR on a run heavy team. He got injured. This year may be a wash for him and that sucks but to give up on him for something he had no fault in is kinda silly. If he has another season ending injury next year than yeh id say we see a pattern and then id really be worried. Lets stop being so short-sighted.
YoloinOhio Posted September 30, 2016 Posted September 30, 2016 Is it just because of what the team gave up to draft him, or his draft position, that some apply the bust label? I don't see the Steelers or Chargers fan base labeling Ryan shazier or Keenan Allen busts. Both also very, very good when on the field, but often injured. To me, that's not on the player as to where he's drafted.
norton20 Posted September 30, 2016 Posted September 30, 2016 (edited) Watkins now on IR. Out for next 8 weeks. Justin Hunter signed Edited September 30, 2016 by norton20
YoloinOhio Posted September 30, 2016 Posted September 30, 2016 When is the soonest he can return? I know the rules are now different
davspo Posted September 30, 2016 Posted September 30, 2016 This stuff isn't hard to figure out. 1st in yards/target: http://overthecap.com/yards-per-target-as-a-metric/ Compare his 2015 numbers to Cooper, who made the pro bowl: http://www.espn.com/nfl/player/stats/_/id/16725/sammy-watkins http://www.espn.com/nfl/player/stats/_/id/2976499/amari-cooper Virtually the same numbers in fewer games. You're claiming I cherry pick, yet here's Sammy putting up equal numbers over the whole season to a guy that made the pro bowl. Actually, he missed only 3 of 32 games coming into this year--that's fewer games missed than Beckham, Julio, and Dez in their first 2 seasons IIRC. And as is typical of those that try to marginalize his on-field performance, you have completely disregarded context. He plays in an offense that ranked 32nd in the NFL in pass attempts--that's dead last. Yet, somehow, he ranked 22nd in receiving yards, 14th in TDs, and 1st in yards/target. This is called context--it is meant to give a frame of reference so that you can consider what the raw numbers actually mean. The easiest way to state it is as follows: you would never, ever try to tell me that Blake Bortles is a better QB than Ben Roethlisberger...at least I hope not. Yet Bortles had more passing yards and more TDs than Ben last year, despite geting sacked 2.5 times more. See? The raw numbers are meaningless without context. Here's the point: you can argue that he's injury prone, and that holds water. What you can't do it claim that he's not productive when he's on the field, which is what you said originally. Clearly that's not true. Indeed they do...on a per-opportunity basis, he's as good as anyone. Like I said "insert excuse here".
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