Carolina Panthers 1st preseason game 2015

[Mikie2times]

I don't know what the temperament is around here lately. Hate Rex, hate Sammy, hate Tyrod, hate people who hate people, love people who hate people. In any event, I found this interesting to me. Perhaps a week late, but interesting.

 

In watching the Patriots in week 3, I couldn't help but notice what strategy they brought to the table against the Texans. The Patriots are defensive polygamists. They aren't married to one system. The only system they're married to is the one that best matches up against the opponent they face. BB wanted to force Brock to throw short passes and drive the field. He played two safeties back the entire game. His corners always had help over the top. They took the deep ball away completely.

 

Rex is in an exclusive relationship. He will attempt to dictate what the offense does, not the other way around. In his first preseason game as Bills coach we saw what we witnessed in the Thursday night game against the Jets. Carolina has BIG WR's. At the time, Benjamin was not hurt, Funchess also got the start, another very tall WR. In the first quarter of that game it was the start of the Ronald Darby panic show. Cam picked off Bills corners in single man coverage multiple times on either deep passes or intentional under throws. Our corners looked lost against larger WR's. If Rex's system has any concentrated flaw it's in the way he utilizes corners in today's passing game. The Jet's ended up Panthering us in the worst way and it's scary to me that we refused to respond or attempt to adjust.

 

The Jet's gameplan was not in anyway complex or hard to copy. We know you will not double our WR's, our WR's are much bigger than your corners, we will play catch all game long. That's exactly what they did. Fortunately for us we didn't see the size at WR with the Cardinals and we won't with the Patriots. Jet's figured us out and we just kept letting them throw passes to a guys over 6'2 against guys under 5'10. Go figure, playing catch worked. The genius was simplicity.

 

It frustrates me that we got torched by tape you could review the first preseason game Rex was our HC. If anything, it's shocking we didn't get attacked more with that angle last season. I don't use pitch forks on Rex. Reality is, this team is very low on talent right now. Injuries have buried us. Even in saying that, I'm just frustrated we don't adjust at times. We have to dictate, even when it's to our detriment we will keep trying to dictate. We saw similar things last year. Again, it was Rex saying this is our system. It wasn't what is the best system for these players? Very few excel at changing and adapting styles as well as the Patriots do. Very few seem to be so married to styles in the way Rex Ryan is. A simple HC change isn't changing our course anytime soon. Not with this talent level. That said, we need to get with the times. This isn't an era of the 46 defense where you impose your will against offenses. It's an era of match up football.

Edited September 28, 2016 by KzooMike

[White Linen]

I don't know what the temperament is around here lately. Hate Rex, hate Sammy, hate Tyrod, hate people who hate people, love people who hate people. In any event, I found this interesting to me. Perhaps a week late, but interesting.

 

In watching the Patriots in week 3, I couldn't help but notice what strategy they brought to the table against the Texans. The Patriots are defensive polygamists. They aren't married to one system. The only system they're married to is the one that best matches up against the opponent they face. BB wanted to force Brock to throw short passes and drive the field. He played two safeties back the entire game. His corners always had help over the top. They took the deep ball away completely.

 

Rex is in an exclusive relationship. He will attempt to dictate what the offense does, not the other way around. In his first preseason game as Bills coach we saw what we witnessed in the Thursday night game against the Jets. Carolina has BIG WR's. At the time, Benjamin was not hurt, Funchess also got the start, another very tall WR. In the first quarter of that game it was the start of the Ronald Darby panic show. Cam picked off Bills corners in single man coverage multiple times on either deep passes or intentional under throws. Our corners looked lost against larger WR's. If Rex's system has any concentrated flaw it's in the way he utilizes corners in today's passing game. The Jet's ended up Panthering us in the worst way and it's scary to me that we refused to respond or attempt to adjust.

 

The Jet's gameplan was not in anyway complex or hard to copy. We know you will not double our WR's, our WR's are much bigger than your corners, we will play catch all game long. That's exactly what they did. Fortunately for us we didn't see the size at WR with the Cardinals and we won't with the Patriots. Jet's figured us out and we just kept letting them throw passes to a guys over 6'2 against guys under 5'10. Go figure, playing catch worked. The genius was simplicity.

 

It frustrates me that we got torched by tape you could review the first preseason game Rex was our HC. If anything, it's shocking we didn't get attacked more with that angle last season. I don't use pitch forks on Rex. Reality is, this team is very low on talent right now. Injuries have buried us. Even in saying that, I'm just frustrated we don't adjust at times. We have to dictate, even when it's to our detriment we will keep trying to dictate. We saw similar things last year. Again, it was Rex saying this is our system. It wasn't what is the best system for these players? Very few excel at changing and adapting styles as well as the Patriots do. Very few seem to be so married to styles in the way Rex Ryan is. A simple HC change isn't changing our course anytime soon. Not with this talent level. That said, we need to get with the times. This isn't an era of the 46 defense where you impose your will against offenses. It's an era of match up football.

 

I vehemently disagree with you on our talent level.

[Mikie2times]

 

I vehemently disagree with you on our talent level.

Then elaborate. What areas on the team do you feel good about, injuries or not.

[K-9]

I just want to be clear; is it your premise that Ryan ran the same schemes vs. the Jets this season that he ran against the Panthers in the opening preseason game of a year ago because he played man coverage? Really?

 

Why didn't Decker and Marshall have the same success vs. our small CBs last season in two games against them?

 

One answer: Fitz literally played the best game of his career this season.

[boyst]

Then elaborate. What areas on the team do you feel good about, injuries or not.

 

OL

DT

DE

OLB

WR

P

[White Linen]

Then elaborate. What areas on the team do you feel good about, injuries or not.

 

Corners

MLB's

Edge Rushers/OLB

D Tackles

OL

Sammy

Clay

Safeties

Special Teams

Edited September 29, 2016 by Triple Threat

[Boatdrinks]

I just want to be clear; is it your premise that Ryan ran the same schemes vs. the Jets this season that he ran against the Panthers in the opening preseason game of a year ago because he played man coverage? Really?

 

Why didn't Decker and Marshall have the same success vs. our small CBs last season in two games against them?

 

One answer: Fitz literally played the best game of his career this season.

 

That answer , while factor, isn't the entirety of what happened. The coverage wasn't awful, just nobody made plays on the ball. The Bills also got zero pressure on Fitzpatrick after the 2nd Jets series. That made it a lot easier for Fitz to well, not be Fitz. If they had gotten pressure he would have served up a few INTs.

[Mikie2times]

I just want to be clear; is it your premise that Ryan ran the same schemes vs. the Jets this season that he ran against the Panthers in the opening preseason game of a year ago because he played man coverage? Really?

 

Why didn't Decker and Marshall have the same success vs. our small CBs last season in two games against them?

 

One answer: Fitz literally played the best game of his career this season.

No, single man coverage is a given. That's just what he does. That was the first time since that game that our corners got attacked with a similar approach as the Panther game and it looked exactly the same. I don't think Fitz "played out of his mind". Decker is 6"3, Enunwa is 6"2, and Marshall is 6"4. Gilmore is 6'0 and Darby is 5'11, and that 5'11 seems very generous. Fitz playing out of his mind consisted of repeated throws to his taller WR's playing jump ball, isolated, against our smaller corners. They did it all game. They did not play us like that last year, nor did they have Enunwa.So I don't see the relevance.

 

 

 

Corners

MLB's

Edge Rushers/OLB

D Tackles

OL

Sammy

Clay

Safeties

Special Teams

 

Corners- Sure, can we resign Gilmore?

 

MLB's- Preston Brown and Zach Brown, yes, a real strength. Real sideline to sideline guys that cover in space.

 

Edge Rushe ®/OLB- Hughes- I'll give you Hughes, who else are you talking about? A street free agent Rex said he didn't want to have to start in Alexander? Kyle WIlliams, who while productive, is at the end and out of position? Our Rookie End?

 

OL- Glenn is currently not playing, if he was, sure. Richie, sure, how long? Who knows. Wood, never really saw him being above average and the right side certainly isn't, nor do we have any evidence that it will be yet

 

D-Tackles- We have Bryant, who I like, but amounts to a 3-4 NT run plug. You can't count a guy who was willing to get suspended for 4 games and assume he isn't willing to get suspended for more.

 

Sammy plays in pain and he's no pansy, but he can't be himself for more than 8 weeks, until he can show that, I can't trust him, certainly not when you put nobody behind him

 

Clay had one good season in Miami, outside of that he plays stiff and has been either underutilized, over promised, our overpaid.

 

Safeties- Aaron Williams is a concussion away from being out half the year. Duke Can't step up. Corey Graham is a reliable vet, not a difference maker

 

ST's- Dan Carpenter, I really don't have to say anything else

 

In my initial post I put "Injured" to contribute in describing our depleted talent, you include many injured players. I took that qualifier off and still don't see what type of foundation you're looking at. Contract, Disciplinary, Injury, Age issues. This team is on the brink of rebuild.....

[BringBackFergy]

I just want to be clear; is it your premise that Ryan ran the same schemes vs. the Jets this season that he ran against the Panthers in the opening preseason game of a year ago because he played man coverage? Really?

 

Why didn't Decker and Marshall have the same success vs. our small CBs last season in two games against them?

 

One answer: Fitz literally played the best game of his career this season.

Yes

[GunnerBill]

I don't necessarily disagree that this team feels like it could be heading for something of a rebuild - but I do think a lot of the key "cornerstone" pieces are here and in place, it is a case of rebuilding some of what is around them and, as ever, finding a Quarterback.

 

We have our franchise LT tied down;

We have a top tier pass rusher tied down;

We have one of the top interior disrupters in the league tied down (maybe we should tie him down in the offseason stop him reaching for the pot);

We have a top level cornerback tandem (question admittedly about Gilmore's contract);

We have a game breaking wide receiver;

 

As for KzooMike's other points.....

 

- Alexander has played really well so far - he has the same number of sacks as Jerry.... it is as big of a surprise to me as anyone but the idea of him as depth when Shaq is healthy makes me suddenly feel good about our outside rushers.

 

- As for the right side of the line - watch the tape. John Miller has been our best offensive player through 3 games.

 

- Corbin Bryant is not a NT run plugger. That is to miscast him completely. He has had some snaps in the middle of the line (really liked last week the way they rotated who played that spot, I think that had a major impact in Kyle looking much more dominant because it confused the 'zona blockers.

 

 

I said pre-season I put the talent level of this roster somewhere between 16-20 across the league as a whole. Last year I thought we had a top 12 roster, hence my level of frustration with 8-8 against a powder puff schedule.... if ever the stars aligned for us it was 2015..... Both years if you are looking at the roster without the QB position I think the Bills get a bump of 3-4 places. At this point (and I am not Tyrod bashing) I do not want us guaranteeing him his next two years come March.

[fansince88]

So you are a Bills fan because.....?

[BarleyNY]

Totally disagree on the talent being low. The exception is at QB. Taylor doesn't seem to be taking the step forward that we all hoped for. An improvement at that position would help this team immensely. But to be successful it will need improvement in coaching as well. Rex has been a very big disappointment. It's not news that he puts too much pressure on the corners, but what I really didn't expect was that he'd be so inflexible with his scheme and personal. I also thought he'd have no choice but to help his corners more due to the rule changes over recent years. I honestly did believe that he'd be able to work with the talent here and adjust to current rules rather than have to re-tool an already excellent squad and continue to leave his CBs on islands so much. But he couldn't or wouldn't adjust. The coach's job is to get the most out of his players and the best do that very well. Rex's inability to do so is why he isn't a good coach and that's why he needs to go.

[Mikie2times]

So you are a Bills fan because.....?

I like 20 years of misery. Can we not go there? Anybody who is a Bills fan is part of a special group of people. Sane or not, emotionally stable or not. You're a Bills fan or you aren't. We don't get to pick teams in the way you make it sound.

 

Sound like most are bullish on the talent, much more so than I. So be it. I do like what Alexander has done, even if he isn't considered a high level contributor, more a FA steal that has stepped up. He's good for Rex, Rex can get more out of inferior talent on the defensive front 7 than most.

 

Miller and Bryant intrigue me as well, flashing good signs. So we could call them neutral positive?.

 

Watching other NFL teams the last few weeks, something I tend to not focus on at a high level. It seemed like they could execute and do things we just aren't capable of. For a talented roster, that would not seem to sync up. At the least, something isn't syncing up.

[GunnerBill]

 

 

Watching other NFL teams the last few weeks, something I tend to not focus on at a high level. It seemed like they could execute and do things we just aren't capable of. For a talented roster, that would not seem to sync up. At the least, something isn't syncing up.

 

The difference is a Quarterback. I hoped we had found one. I am losing faith by the snap.

[White Linen]

 

 

 

 

Corners- Sure, can we resign Gilmore?

 

MLB's- Preston Brown and Zach Brown, yes, a real strength. Real sideline to sideline guys that cover in space.- Yep

 

Edge Rushe ®/OLB- Hughes- I'll give you Hughes, who else are you talking about? A street free agent Rex said he didn't want to have to start in Alexander? Kyle WIlliams, who while productive, is at the end and out of position? Our Rookie End? Yes, Hughes and Shaq - gotta feel good about our first round pick

 

OL- Glenn is currently not playing, if he was, sure. Richie, sure, how long? Who knows. Wood, never really saw him being above average and the right side certainly isn't, nor do we have any evidence that it will be yet - Glenn is hurt but that doesn't factor into your lack of talent narrative. Woods is very good - maybe not great, but he's not hurting us.

 

D-Tackles- We have Bryant, who I like, but amounts to a 3-4 NT run plug. You can't count a guy who was willing to get suspended for 4 games and assume he isn't willing to get suspended for more. - we don't play a 3-4 that needs a nose and um I like Dareus and when Kyle is finished Washington is someone to feel good about.

 

Sammy plays in pain and he's no pansy, but he can't be himself for more than 8 weeks, until he can show that, I can't trust him, certainly not when you put nobody behind him - fine, but you said "lack of talent" and he's got an abundance of that.

 

Clay had one good season in Miami, outside of that he plays stiff and has been either underutilized, over promised, our overpaid. - don't switch to being overpaid - you said talent and he's got it. I'd think Tyrod throwing for measly yards has something to do with his production, no?

 

Safeties- Aaron Williams is a concussion away from being out half the year. Duke Can't step up. Corey Graham is a reliable vet, not a difference maker - ok, don't feel great about the next 5 years but I'm reasonably satisfied with Williams and Graham both playing well.

 

ST's- Dan Carpenter, I really don't have to say anything else - no you don't because he's been reliable. he's missed one extra point but it's not like he's kicked all that much.

 

In my initial post I put "Injured" to contribute in describing our depleted talent, you include many injured players. I took that qualifier off and still don't see what type of foundation you're looking at. Contract, Disciplinary, Injury, Age issues. This team is on the brink of rebuild.....

[Jauronimo]

No, single man coverage is a given. That's just what he does. That was the first time since that game that our corners got attacked with a similar approach as the Panther game and it looked exactly the same. I don't think Fitz "played out of his mind". Decker is 6"3, Enunwa is 6"2, and Marshall is 6"4. Gilmore is 6'0 and Darby is 5'11, and that 5'11 seems very generous. Fitz playing out of his mind consisted of repeated throws to his taller WR's playing jump ball, isolated, against our smaller corners. They did it all game. They did not play us like that last year, nor did they have Enunwa.So I don't see the relevance.

 

 

 

Corners- Sure, can we resign Gilmore?

 

MLB's- Preston Brown and Zach Brown, yes, a real strength. Real sideline to sideline guys that cover in space.

 

Edge Rushe ®/OLB- Hughes- I'll give you Hughes, who else are you talking about? A street free agent Rex said he didn't want to have to start in Alexander? Kyle WIlliams, who while productive, is at the end and out of position? Our Rookie End?

 

OL- Glenn is currently not playing, if he was, sure. Richie, sure, how long? Who knows. Wood, never really saw him being above average and the right side certainly isn't, nor do we have any evidence that it will be yet

 

D-Tackles- We have Bryant, who I like, but amounts to a 3-4 NT run plug. You can't count a guy who was willing to get suspended for 4 games and assume he isn't willing to get suspended for more.

 

Sammy plays in pain and he's no pansy, but he can't be himself for more than 8 weeks, until he can show that, I can't trust him, certainly not when you put nobody behind him

 

Clay had one good season in Miami, outside of that he plays stiff and has been either underutilized, over promised, our overpaid.

 

Safeties- Aaron Williams is a concussion away from being out half the year. Duke Can't step up. Corey Graham is a reliable vet, not a difference maker

 

ST's- Dan Carpenter, I really don't have to say anything else

 

In my initial post I put "Injured" to contribute in describing our depleted talent, you include many injured players. I took that qualifier off and still don't see what type of foundation you're looking at. Contract, Disciplinary, Injury, Age issues. This team is on the brink of rebuild.....

Larry Fitzgerald 6'3"

Michael Floyd 6'3"

Jaron Brown 6'2"

[K-9]

No, single man coverage is a given. That's just what he does. That was the first time since that game that our corners got attacked with a similar approach as the Panther game and it looked exactly the same. I don't think Fitz "played out of his mind". Decker is 6"3, Enunwa is 6"2, and Marshall is 6"4. Gilmore is 6'0 and Darby is 5'11, and that 5'11 seems very generous. Fitz playing out of his mind consisted of repeated throws to his taller WR's playing jump ball, isolated, against our smaller corners. They did it all game. They did not play us like that last year, nor did they have Enunwa.So I don't see the relevance.

 

 

Per the bold text, that's just not accurate. Teams with bigger receivers have been testing our CBs in man coverage since day one, especially Darby. He even manned up on Gronk and broke up a pass last year on a go pattern.

 

True, Enunwa wasn't there last year, but Marshall and Decker both tested us last year like they did this year. It may be less relevant without Enunwa's impact last year, but having two out of the same three big receivers makes it relevant none the less. If the point is that teams with THREE bigger receivers are the litmus test, I think it's a stretch because most teams just can't trot out three wideouts that size.

 

Fitz had the best game of his career. Both in terms of recognition and execution; something he doesn't come close to doing with any consistency as we all know. He put it all together that night and was the difference in the game. Unless we should think that Geno Smith or anybody else could put the ball in places for his guys to make plays. I guess we'll agree to disagree on that point.

[Beef Jerky]

You mean they got some good ST plays and Blount went crazy? Yes that is what I saw.

Per the bold text, that's just not accurate. Teams with bigger receivers have been testing our CBs in man coverage since day one, especially Darby. He even manned up on Gronk and broke up a pass last year on a go pattern.

 

True, Enunwa wasn't there last year, but Marshall and Decker both tested us last year like they did this year. It may be less relevant without Enunwa's impact last year, but having two out of the same three big receivers makes it relevant none the less. If the point is that teams with THREE bigger receivers are the litmus test, I think it's a stretch because most teams just can't trot out three wideouts that size.

 

Fitz had the best game of his career. Both in terms of recognition and execution; something he doesn't come close to doing with any consistency as we all know. He put it all together that night and was the difference in the game. Unless we should think that Geno Smith or anybody else could put the ball in places for his guys to make plays. I guess we'll agree to disagree on that point.

 

How did Fitz do last week?

[K-9]

You mean they got some good ST plays and Blount went crazy? Yes that is what I saw.

 

How did Fitz do last week?

Not relevant to the discussion, but he Fitzed.

[Beef Jerky]

Not relevant to the discussion, but he Fitzed.

 

Exactly the biggest receivers in the league couldnt help that day.