Are the Pegula's meddling owners?

[GunnerBill]

You're right. Arians did a great job of filling in for Chuck Pagano in Indy while Pagano was going through cancer treatment. Russ didn't even bother to interview him and Arians has been very successful in Arizona.

He didn't fit the profile of what they were looking for. They were looking for someone experienced in turning around losing programmes.

 

They missed out on a good coach because of that, no doubt, but the alternative of a scattergun interview process gives you a guy who interviews impressively whether he is a fit for the job or not. Rex Ryan.

 

I'd prefer they identify the type of coach and type of fit they want.

[Nihilarian]

 

Ralph was always a meddling owner, which is why Chuck Knox left, John Butler left as well as others. The Bills GM back in the 80's died and Bill Polian who was the assistant GM got promoted due to the GM's passing. It was by luck that Polian got the job as GM and turned the franchise around. Polian was the one who convinced Jim Kelly to come to Buffalo as he did not want to play here back in 1983 when he was drafted.

Chuck Knox left Buffalo because he wanted a raise even though the team went 4-5 in a strike season in 1982. Now, when Knox was hired Wilson made him one of the highest-paid head coaches in the NFL and when you consider that the man saved Wilson from having to move the team out of Buffalo! That was a real concern because stadium attendance and season tickets had dropped to 20k or so after 2-12, 3-11 seasons. Knox got the team to the playoffs in three years and managed to beat Don Shula's Dolphins, a division opponent that the Bills hadn't beaten in the entire decade of the 1970's.

 

What did Wilson care that Knox would leave for more money in Seattle as his stadium was now filled and season tickets sales were at an all-time high! The team was now filled with quality talented players and Wilson expected the team to keep winning. Not only that, Wilson had managed to keep Knox's chief scout that Knox had brought with him from the Rams so he must have figured he could keep bringing in quality talent through the draft. Ralph Wilsons next hire as HC was Kay Stephenson who was Knox's QB coach.

 

The one problem through all this was the current Bills GM was a complete fool and it was Knox who also had a great eye for talent and a superb ability to motivate young players. So, while Knox was with the Bills he took over as de facto GM and made all the personnel decisions. And yes, Knox was also very unhappy with Wilson's bean counters which made it difficult to bring in top dollar free agents that the players strike had just managed to change. In actuality, Wilson was smart enough to allow others who were better at judging NFL player talent to make the personnel decisions and did the same when Polian came along. These men had to fight for what they wanted, though.

 

 

In regards to Butler. John Butler's contract with the Buffalo Bills was nearly up and he wanted to be paid equal to what his peers were being paid and Wilson was notoriously frugal. Butler had quietly made inquiries to other NFL teams in need of a decent GM and he had found future prospect with the San Diego Chargers so when Wilson lowballed him he declined to sign with Buffalo. Wilson the told Butler, "if I can't hire you then I'll fire you"!

 

 

In regards to how Bill Polian came to be hired by Buffalo. It was that chief scout that came to Buffalo with Chuck Knox who recommended hiring Polian to the Bills as pro personnel director under then-GM Terry Bledsoe. After Bledsoe suffered a debilitating back injury, Ralph Wilson asked Polian to take the GM job after he had seen how well he did with Bruce Smith's contract. Kay Stephenson who was the Bills head coach at that time was also instrumental in getting Polian hired in Buffalo as he worked closely with that VP of player personnel.

 

Ralph Wilson as an NFL owner was very meddlesome and just not in the same way that others were as Mr. Wilson needed his team to make a profit to help support him and his family. Wilson also lived in Detroit so he wasn't always around the team's facilities like Dallas Cowboys owner / GM Jerry Jones. St Louis Cardinals owner the late Bill Bidwell would sit with each and every player on the team and personally offered them a contract to sign and if you think Wilson was frugal, Bidwell was the real Ebeneezer. The late Jim Irsay who owned the Colts once gave his star QB a house in Baltimore to go along with his contract and when he dumped that QB he took back the house.

 

 

Bottom line: the fact that the owners made the hire of the head coach and didn't allow the GM to make that choice means that they are far more involved than they should be. Meddling, yes!

[May Day 10]

Thanks nihilarian. Great post

[billsfan89]

if you own a business (which is what this is) and your leadership/management team is failing, you have every right to do whatever needs to get done to right the ship. it's your money. where does this idea come from that you just buy a $2B team, put leaders in place and trust the process?!

 

Now owners of a team aren't the same as they where 50 years ago. The owners make money doing other things and then get into sports as a novelty. Back 50 years ago the owners main source of money was the team, so it was more likely an owner would be closer to the product and more capable of running a team. But today someone who runs a tech company or another business and makes enough money to buy a NFL team isn't going to have the understanding of the game to run an NFL operation.

 

I think you have to know enough to know that you don't know enough. Of course big decision are the owners to make but running the ins and outs of an organization shouldn't be done by a guy who was running a completely different industry for the previous 30 years of his life.

[keepthefaith]

 

 

Bottom line: the fact that the owners made the hire of the head coach and didn't allow the GM to make that choice means that they are far more involved than they should be. Meddling, yes!

 

I disagree to some extent. Where is it written that rich owners need to delegate all decisions to their GM and senior staff? Nothing wrong with a more hands on owner if they want to be that way and certainly they shouldn't be criticized for wanting to make a reasonable profit. There are probably many examples of very successful teams that have coaches hired by their owners. Jerry Jones/Jimmy Johnson, Bob Kraft/Bill Belichick, Al Davis and some of his coaches. Probably many others. In the case of the Bills, Whaley in my view not experienced enough to hire a coach on his own. Probably can say same for other owners. Pegula (in his mind) probably feels he has far more hiring know how and rightfully so but he's about to be 0 for 1.

Edited September 23, 2016 by keepthefaith

[3rdand12]

 

This is a valid point, like if I'm trying to help my kid and she expresses a strong desire to do something that's not my first choice, I'm "OK then, if that's what you really want, let's talk about how to make it happen for you."

 

The thing is, Rex as HC was such a PR bonanza for the team last year that it's hard to imagine marketing-man Russ not being "all in" for hiring him.

So Bills set the record for season ticket sales last year and come in second this year. Interesting coincidence perhaps ? I think it is job well done, even if short sighted. and stupid

 

Maybe now it is about time to win some games. The message can change, as the the end game can.

 

Pegula got some ROI , but now the fan base is going to get pissed about no playoffs yet.

 

I am sure they all see this

Pegulas are learning on the fly about this organization. Until it is sorted out, up and humming along, they should delve into the details.

Its not like they are calling the plays or telling Caoche get the ball to Watkins because he told me he is unhappy.

 

Let them learn the truths before they can sit back and let the GM run the operations

[dayman]

I voted yes, as any good owners should be when they have a losing team.

 

Once you have a Brady/Belichick combo in place you can fade into the background, but right now they have idiots running things and should get all up in there so they're ready to make a better hire this offseason.

Edited September 23, 2016 by dayman

[Samwell Tarly]

This is a tough one to nail as an owner. Too hands on, you're a meddler. Too hands off, you're an absentee owner. Hire a good gm and pray to God he drafts an elite qb and hires a great Coach. Winning hides a lot of warts.

[John from Riverside]

I mean it is one continuous beating right? Some would like to think so even though times and ownership has changed

 

but hey...carry on with the crusade

[BarleyNY]

i agree with you.

 

I hesitate to give them a label yet though and would rather wait until the dust settles. The organization seems to be undergoing continued turmoil since Ralph stepped away after the 2012 season. The Sabres had a similar thing happen and now it seems Pegula is just along for the ride. They want to be very involved in keeping players and their families happy and comfortable.

 

I agree on not labeling them. (I did not vote.) There's big a difference between calling out a move or decision as terrible and labeling a person as terrible at what they're doing. The Pegulas screwed the pooch here, but that doesn't mean they won't learn from it, move on and be better next time. That's what I'm hoping for.

[jms62]

Many of us thought Rex's failure in NY was due to his GM and his owners sudden reluctance to spend money. Given prior to that he had reached the AFC championship game twice. It is understandable the attraction the Pegula's had and they certainly were sold on it by their non football decision making /marketing guy president. I think they are realizing that it now was a bad decision and as successful businesspeople are making moves to correct the situation. Personnally I don't see this move saving the season. I think we get a complete house cleaning after this season and start from scratch. In my opinion it is better doing it sooner than floundering around for a few more years and doing it then.

[zow2]

The Pegulas kind of remind me of how Dan Snyder acted when he first bought the Redskins. He was buddies with players, coaches, GM- and had meetings all the time with anyone and everyone. If you win with that method then great, it's fine...but if things go bad (like they did with Snyder), then you gotta change things up. Now you rarely see Dan Snyder in the public eye, he's very low profile compared to what he used to be. The team Prez, GM and coach are the only one's who talk publicly and make football moves.

 

Personally, if I was an owner I'd be involved. Not to the point of being a nuisance and distraction, but I'd want to have insight into everything going on and have a say.

[Jerry Jabber]

The Pegulas kind of remind me of how Dan Snyder acted when he first bought the Redskins. He was buddies with players, coaches, GM- and had meetings all the time with anyone and everyone. If you win with that method then great, it's fine...but if things go bad (like they did with Snyder), then you gotta change things up. Now you rarely see Dan Snyder in the public eye, he's very low profile compared to what he used to be. The team Prez, GM and coach are the only one's who talk publicly and make football moves.

 

Personally, if I was an owner I'd be involved. Not to the point of being a nuisance and distraction, but I'd want to have insight into everything going on and have a say.

+1

 

I feel we're going to have to go through growing pains with the Pegula's until they figure out how to run a successful football organization.

[nucci]

I don't think they are meddling but I think they made a poor choice in Rex Ryan as coach and it seems like they also gave him more power over the team than Whaley. I haven't heard or read anything from Whaley regarding the Roman firing. Seems to me he's been pushed aside.