Are the Pegula's meddling owners?

[CommonCents]

It's my toy dmmit and i wanna play with it!!

You'll go blind.

[What a Tuel]

 

He says that and goes on about how he is going on to build a winning football program, hiring coaches, being forward thinking, restoring Buffalo Bills football, creating a robust analytics department.... he has failed as a leader of this organization in every one of those aspects.

 

I added another article that details how he had a huge role in the "search" (to use the term lightly) for Buddy Nix.

 

 

 

How much in his presser did he talk about business? Nowhere does he sound like a 'yes man' (despite his brief and insincere disclaimer he throws around and then contradicts 10 seconds later and gets away with it).

 

He had a huge role in the search for Buddy Nix because he was the former GM and transitioned to CEO at that point.

 

Q: You mentioned Buddy will handle the football side. Where does the head coaching search fit into that?

RB: It’ll be a team effort and Buddy will lead the team.

 

Edit: He says this when he was in complete control. And you think he had more power to choose Rex Ryan in the midst of Pegula's and Whaley's opinions? It had to be more of a consensus than anything. Even with Whaley on the fence.

Edited September 21, 2016 by What a Tuel

[BillsVet]

So in other words. The NE Patriots before Robert Kraft bought the team. He didn't need a consultant did he. He hired HC and found a QB. That is how you win in this league.

 

What is your point? The NFL from of the 90s is long gone and no one operates today the way teams did back then. Everything's more competitive and ff we're banking on luck happening here, well, that's like your retirement plan being to win the lottery.

 

For the record, Robert Kraft bought his franchise in 1992, the team went to the SB in 1996 under Parcells, but was mediocre by 1999 when he hired a previously fired HC named Bill Belichick. Kraft identified someone who has been wildly successful that remarkably found a QB in the 6th round.

 

The Pegula's are being led by Brandon and Whaley, neither of whom have much of any success in this league. I'd want someone advising me better than those two.

[MAJBobby]

 

What is your point? The NFL from of the 90s is long gone and no one operates today the way teams did back then. Everything's more competitive and ff we're banking on luck happening here, well, that's like your retirement plan being to win the lottery.

 

For the record, Robert Kraft bought his franchise in 1992, the team went to the SB in 1996 under Parcells, but was mediocre by 1999 when he hired a previously fired HC named Bill Belichick. Kraft identified someone who has been wildly successful that remarkably found a QB in the 6th round.

 

The Pegula's are being led by Brandon and Whaley, neither of whom have much of any success in this league. I'd want someone advising me better than those two.

 

 

And how where those Patriots before Kraft bought the team, and then hit on a coach and lucked into a QB?

[CommonCents]

 

 

And how where those Patriots before Kraft bought the team, and then hit on a coach and lucked into a QB?

They were perfect!! Tony Eason, Steve Grogan, Irving Fryar etc etc....so perfect that they were blacked out and I could enjoy the Bills games. Then Kraft had to come and ruin everything.

[Billznut]

Nope. It is their team and their money. Talking to the coaches and the players is not meddling, if anything it could create a beneficial atmosphere if done properly.

 

At year end, after our 5-11 finish, just hope they do these things:

 

1. Keep Bandon away from football decisions - I think they reclassified his role to do just that, so they need stick to that.

 

2. Replace Whaley with a proven GM ... and knock off all this Football Czar talk, just hire a GM that eats and sleeps football.

 

3. Let the new GM evaluate the team, let the new GM fire Rex, let the new GM pick the coach, let the new GM run the draft, let the new GM run free agency, let the new GM handle all that is football.

 

4. Be willing to suck up the money to eat the salary's they have in place from listening to Brandon and Whaley in the first place.

Amen to all this. Only thing to change is 5-11 to 3-13

[DriveFor1Outta5]

I don't think they are "meddling owners" in the sense of the term, but all of this makes the franchise look bad. These debates don't get out into the media with successful franchises. Please don't mention Jerrah either. Everything that team has done is in spite of his presence. When rumors like this leak out it means that we decrease our odds of drawing any quality people to this franchise.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

You'll go blind.

 

Or just break it

[Fadingpain]

Voted yes but only because the choices were overly simplistic.

 

The correct answer is "sort of, in a particular kind of way."

 

Pegula has demonstrated that he is a rather unsophisticated sports fan with regard to both hockey and football.

 

His inability to realize immediately that both organizations needed to be totally gutted and rebuilt is his first sin.

Nope. It is their team and their money. Talking to the coaches and the players is not meddling, if anything it could create a beneficial atmosphere if done properly.

 

At year end, after our 5-11 finish, just hope they do these things:

 

1. Keep Bandon away from football decisions - I think they reclassified his role to do just that, so they need stick to that.

 

2. Replace Whaley with a proven GM ... and knock off all this Football Czar talk, just hire a GM that eats and sleeps football.

 

3. Let the new GM evaluate the team, let the new GM fire Rex, let the new GM pick the coach, let the new GM run the draft, let the new GM run free agency, let the new GM handle all that is football.

 

4. Be willing to suck up the money to eat the salary's they have in place from listening to Brandon and Whaley in the first place.

The term "CZAR" should not be used because no one really knows what that means.

 

Insofar as the "CZAR" would be a Pat LaFontaine trusted voice of wisdom stepping in from outside the organization, temporarily, to find the right GM and get the foundation started, I am all in favor of a "CZAR."

 

If we don't go that route, who the hell is going to pick the GM?

Edited September 21, 2016 by Fadingpain

[jumbalaya]

if i paid 1.4 billion for a team i'd be calling plays from the owners box

No kidding. They have been more than patient with this putrid product.

Amen to all this. Only thing to change is 5-11 to 3-13

Where are the 3 wins?

[Lofton80]

Ralph Wilson meddled for 40 years. Why is this a thing? I hope they want better results than last weeks embarrasment

[Fadingpain]

Ralph Wilson meddled for 40 years. Why is this a thing? I hope they want better results than last weeks embarrasment

It's a thing because meddling owners don't achieve success, by and large, and good owners who write checks, hire good people, and then get the hell out of the way do.

 

People are interested in discussing which sort of owner we have. It's relevant to the whole "success" thing.

[Jerry Jabber]

Voted yes but only because the choices were overly simplistic.

 

The correct answer is "sort of, in a particular kind of way."

 

Pegula has demonstrated that he is a rather unsophisticated sports fan with regard to both hockey and football.

 

His inability to realize immediately that both organizations needed to be totally gutted and rebuilt is his first sin.

 

+1 You're absolutely right. Part of the reason the Bills became successful was high draft picks for a few years back in the 80's, such as #1 in 1985 when the Bills drafted arguably the best DE in NFL history, Bruce Smith. The Bills need to do what the Sabres did, trade off assets for high draft picks, tank for two to three years so they can get Top 3 picks in the draft and draft a franchise QB.

[DirtDart]

Here is my issue.

 

Lets say they decide to fire Whaley. I am agnostic either way actually, but lets say they do.

 

What GM would want to come here, that has......

 

1. The Coach reporting directly to the Owner, and not me as a GM.

2. A Contract guy that is responsible for the Contracts, and his budget is set by a Managing Partner.

3. My football Administration Budget is also set by this Managing Partner that doesn't report to me, Instead directly reports to owner.

 

So really as a GM I am nothing more than a Head Scout. Tell me what GM would like to come into that structure?

That is a big issue, The Gm should be all things Football.

[Peter]

if i paid 1.4 billion for a team i'd be calling plays from the owners box

Exactly.

 

The premise of the initial post and question is just as wrong as when Bucky argues they are meddling owners.

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

The problem with that argument is you have no idea what the other 31 teams in the league are doing. They may all be having similar interactions. If they are just going to Rex or Whaley and saying the players are saying this..... what is your take, I wouldn't call that meddling.

 

 

It's a thing because meddling owners don't achieve success, by and large, and good owners who write checks, hire good people, and then get the hell out of the way do.

 

People are interested in discussing which sort of owner we have. It's relevant to the whole "success" thing.

[Nihilarian]

 

 

So in other words. The NE Patriots before Robert Kraft bought the team. He didn't need a consultant did he. He hired HC and found a QB. That is how you win in this league.

 

 

 

And how where those Patriots before Kraft bought the team, and then hit on a coach and lucked into a QB?

 

The 1991 NE Patriots (6-10) were owned by Victor Kiam who sold the team to James Orthwein. So in 1992 the team went 2-14 and there were many rumors that ownership was very shaky and the team might be moved to St Louis to become the Stallions.

 

Behind the scenes to us Bills fans, Robert Kraft had been a Patriots season ticket holder since 1971 and had wanted to buy the team and wasn't able to get it done. In 1985 in his quest to own the team he bought Foxboro raceway next to the stadium and later on bought the stadium out of bankruptcy. When he bought the stadium he also bought the Patriots lease which lasted until 2001. Victor Kiam also wanted to move the team to Jacksonville at one point.

 

It was in 1993 that Orthwein made sweeping changes to the entire FO in NE and the entire coaching staff was fired. He then hired Bill Parcells as the new HC of the Patriots and also gave him power over all football personnel as de facto GM. Parcells went 5-11 his first year while drafting Drew Bledsoe #1 overall.

 

In 1994 Patriots owner Orthwein made an offer to Robert Kraft to buy the stadium rights and he refused to sell and had Kraft sold those rights the team probably would have moved to St Louis. After this Orthwein decided to make an offer of 175 million to Kraft to buy the team from him and he accepted. That season the team went 10-6 under Parcells and made the playoffs. Parcells was still the head coach and de facto GM when the team went to the super bowl in 1996 with Drew Bledsoe at QB and Curtis Martin at RB.

 

At the end of 1996, Bill Parcells decided to leave the Patriots as Robert Kraft wanted to take away Parcells involvement in the personnel area as Parcells was overruled by Kraft in that draft of their #1 pick. Parcells stayed that season but was done with NE after that year. The NFL wouldn't let Parcells coach in 1997 so he went to the Jets as a consultant and took assistant HC Bill Belichick with him to NY.

 

 

The Point of all this is, Robert Kraft's first head coach hire was Pete Carroll, who took over the Patriots in 1997 going 10-6 and then 9-7 in 1998 to 8-8 in 1989 and then was fired. Also, the Patriots were a super bowl team before Kraft got there.

 

At the end of 1999 Patriots owner Robert Kraft fired Pete Carroll and wanted to hire Bill Belichick away from the NY Jets who was the teams DC at that time. Jets owner Leon Hess had recently passed away so Belichick was uncertain of the situation in NY and future ownership. Parcells was promoted to GM and stepped down as HC so the Jets could hire Belichick and not liking this at all Belichick took the NFL to court so he could be hired by NE.

 

 

Now, clearly, Robert Kraft identified who the smartest man in the room was on that NY Jets team and went after him!! The 2000 Patriots went 5-11 in Belichick's first season. But for 2001 Belichick hired Charlie Weis and Romeo Crennel who had been Parcells OC and defensive assistant with the Jets under Parcells. New Jets HC Al Groh wanted to hire his own people so they were let go to Belichick's delight.

 

 

So, I'd say comparing Robert Kraft to the Pegula's in knowing who to hire is way off base as this was the Pegula's very first year in owning an NFL team and they were basically clueless as who to hire.

 

I'd liken the Patriots hiring of Bill Parcells to Ralph Wilson's hiring of Chuck Knox as both were well-known winners. Parcells brought Belichick with him to NE. Knox also brought a very brilliant, talent evaluator with him to Buffalo and that man went on to help hire Bill Polian and John Butler.

Edited September 22, 2016 by Nihilarian

[QCity]

No, they aren't meddling.

 

If they stayed away from the team we'd be getting articles titled, "Where have the Pegulas been throughout this mess?" and "Do the Pegulas even care about their football team?"

 

Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

Edited September 22, 2016 by QCity

[Nihilarian]

I don't believe for one second that the Pegula's told Doug Whaley to pound sand and hire who they wanted. They all had a vote in the process. Was the pool of HC candidates really that thick? Or, did they hire the guy that had the most background/familiarity in the AFC East? We have to beat those teams to win the division, and make the playoffs. That scenario makes a whole lot of sense to me.

The head coaching search was led by Doug Whaley with Russ Brandon as a consultant and those two along with Terry and Kim would be doing the interviewing for the Buffalo Bills next head coach. Whaley amassed quite a few names (At least 10)for the new owners to interview and that consultant (Brandon) told the new owners that "they" would know who to hire after talking with all the candidates.

 

It has been reported that Doug Whaley wanted to hire Hue Jackson as HC and retain Jim Schwartz as DC!!! Whaley wanted to hire an offensive minded head coach that would work with EJ!

 

"The source said that Whaley is making it clear he wants the new coach to make the progress in developing Manuel, the Bills' first-round draft pick in 2013, that former coach Doug Marrone and his staff never made."

 

http://www.buffalorumblings.com/bills-news-notes/2015/1/6/7504485/buffalo-bills-doug-whaley-new-coach-ej-manuel

 

From Hue Jackson,

 

"They wanted to find someone to leave the defense in place because they were very good there and really help on the offensive side of the ball, help with the decision of the quarterback," Jackson said Wednesday at the Super Bowl media center."

 

"That's where I thought they were headed."

 

Then the Bills were bowled over by Rex Ryan's charm."I thought I was a pretty good fit," Jackson said. "I walked out of there feeling good that I had answered what they asked.

"They just felt Rex was the best fit for them, which I understand. I thought it was a fair process."

Jackson said Terry Pegula ran the interview, but Kim Pegula and Whaley were active participants in the Q&A.

http://bills.buffalonews.com/2015/01/28/hue-jackson-gives-insight-bills-interview-process-absolutely-kept-jim-schwartz/

There is no question that the Pegula's hired Rex Ryan after interviewing all the candidates! I feel the new owners along with Brandon and Whaley were conned by a man who could sell ice to an Eskimo. I admit it that Rex Ryan had me fooled into thinking the Bills would make the playoffs in 2015. (So, irrefutably these new owners made the choice of hiring Rex Ryan! So yes, they did meddle)

 

The sad reality is that these new owners were fooled into thinking that they were getting an NFL defensive genius and what they really hired was a man who only knows how to run one outdated scheme that requires a different set of front seven players that were already on the Bills roster. Sure, he thought he could make it work in 2015. Clearly, that didn't happen and Ryan took the best pass rush in the league with three pro bowlers and forced them to play a scheme that didn't suit their abilities. 1st in the NFL to 31st in sacks. 1st in the NFL in QB pressures to last!

 

 

What's so ironic here is that Russ Brandon has picked the brains of all the Bills head coaches the team has hired since his coming into power the last 10 years so now he has a better understanding of the NFL. The ironic part is that he picked the brains of morons, idiots, and losers so he doesn't know a good head coach from a bad one either. "Don't let him (Rex Ryan) leave the building!

Edited September 22, 2016 by Nihilarian

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

The marketing guy wanting Rex makes perfect sense to me. A celebutant coach= National media relevance no matter win, lose or draw.