I was wrong, and I don't mind saying it..

[PolishDave]

Rex took a top 5 defense and made it the laughing stock of the league. The race to the bottom churned into a new gear when he hired his brother. Brandon, Whaley and the Pegulas should have known better. The Browns were better than this sorry team until McCown went down.

 

He's allowed Sammy Watkins to be invisible in half the games he played. And there are no receivers on the team that are anything but a #4 at best on most every other team, but thy won't get Sammy involved? Idiotic.

 

He has no control over his players:

• Rex let a rookie of the year candidate turn into a fat, pothead and had to cut him lose.
• Rex allows a starting RT, a known pothead when drafted, and does nothing to change him and he had to be caught and fined three times before he's suspended. Where is the foresight to fix his issues? He was a problem when you drafted him after he was busted at the combine and he still can't figure it out? His major problem isn't Crohns disease it's between his ears.
• Rex allows his all pro DT to turn into or stay a pothead. Who knows if this jerk will even be out of rehab by the time his suspension is up or what kind of shape the overgrown baby will be in.

Rex is a players coach my ***. Rex' head is up his players ***es. As I stated when he hired his fat ***ed brother, it will be nothing but a ****show. I had no problem Rex attending his son's Clemson game this Saturday. I had a big problem that Rob -- who should have been fired -- went to the game instead of trying to fix his lousy defense.

 

Shaq Lawson will be a bigger bust than the lightweight we had from Penn State.

 

Dude...Rex isn't their dad..

 

Even if he was and told them to quit hitting the weed and quit eating 4 cheeseburgers at dinner time, it is very unlikely they would have listened to him.

 

You can blame Rex for a lot, but not any of that. Those are all personal character issues that are not Rex's fault at all.

 

Sorry, they're not.

 

Hate Rex all you want....But don't blame him for **** he doesn't control.

[John from Riverside]

Rex took a top 5 defense and made it the laughing stock of the league. The race to the bottom churned into a new gear when he hired his brother. Brandon, Whaley and the Pegulas should have known better. The Browns were better than this sorry team until McCown went down.

 

He's allowed Sammy Watkins to be invisible in half the games he played. And there are no receivers on the team that are anything but a #4 at best on most every other team, but thy won't get Sammy involved? Idiotic.

 

He has no control over his players:

• Rex let a rookie of the year candidate turn into a fat, pothead and had to cut him lose.
• Rex allows a starting RT, a known pothead when drafted, and does nothing to change him and he had to be caught and fined three times before he's suspended. Where is the foresight to fix his issues? He was a problem when you drafted him after he was busted at the combine and he still can't figure it out? His major problem isn't Crohns disease it's between his ears.
• Rex allows his all pro DT to turn into or stay a pothead. Who knows if this jerk will even be out of rehab by the time his suspension is up or what kind of shape the overgrown baby will be in.

Rex is a players coach my ***. Rex' head is up his players ***es. As I stated when he hired his fat ***ed brother, it will be nothing but a ****show. I had no problem Rex attending his son's Clemson game this Saturday. I had a big problem that Rob -- who should have been fired -- went to the game instead of trying to fix his lousy defense.

 

Shaq Lawson will be a bigger bust than the lightweight we had from Penn State.

This has to be either the most sarcasm post in the history of the board or straight troll bait

[Nihilarian]

I play this game where I count how many words into your posts before I see the term "2 gap." Only 11 today, so we set a new record.

 

I admit he sometimes prefers a two gap fit in more obvious running downs, but not all that much, really, as it's mostly dictated by offensive personnel and formation. It's just not as prominent as some like to believe. Much of the time vs the Jets for example, he had his DL playing one gap or shading, for example. Yeah, there were a few snaps where KW was in a 0 technique, but it wasn't often.

 

And before you go into your "Mario was wasted in the two gap philosophy" just know that is part and parcel to an being a strong side edge player in a 34 front. We can say he was wasted in that role but that's another argument as MW certainly had the athletic chops to play the technique. And not for nothing, after the bye last season we saw less and less of our down lineman playing 2 gap responsibilities.

 

Anyway, this particular discussion pertained to the assertion that Ryan's "46 is antiquated" when he really didn't use much of it in the losing effort last week.

You can claim that Ryan didn't use his two-gap run-stopping scheme all that much last season but the stats say something different. You don't go from #2 in the league in sacks in 2013 utilizing a 3-4 scheme and then go to #1 in the league in sacks utilizing a 4-3 scheme. To Rex Ryan's defense that went to 31st in the league in sacks and then last in the league in QB pressures by mostly using anything other than that two-gap.

 

It was also clear to see the games in which Ryan ran a mostly one-gap scheme. Like in that second game against the Patriots without Mario, Kyle and Aaron Williams. Then against the 10-6 Jets in the final game of the season while knocking them out of the playoffs with an injury-depleted Bills roster while getting tremendous pressure on Fitz. So the injury excuse for Buffalo made by some doesn't fly either.

 

There is also the fact that the best Bills D-line player on Ryan's defense in Marcell Dareus went public about his misuse in Rex's scheme since training camp last 2015. Although Mario, the best pass rusher was more concerned about how often he was being asked to drop into pass coverage, he also stated he didn't like what he was being asked to do in Ryan's scheme. Both those all pro's complaining about how they were wrongly being utilized in Ryan's scheme corroborates him using that two-gap far too often.

 

How does a supposed defensive guru who is a players coach manage to upset and alienate two all pro's who are the very best in the league at what they both do... and somehow it's the players fault.

 

I liken Ryan's two-gap scheme to Jauron's Tampa Two in that both need sets of very talented players in specific positions to make those defenses work to maximum efficiency and even then the better teams have learned how to defeat those schemes.

 

What's sad is the Bills FO thought they were getting one of the most talented defensive minds in the league only to find that in reality, the man only knows how to run one kinda outdated scheme that requires a completely different set of defenders in the front seven that were already on the roster. JMHO.

[Beef Jerky]

1 very good game and 1 completely putrid game. Big test this week.

1 good week won't work they NEED to win these next 2 and maybe the three after just to make people believe again. This team has no ability to be consistent. They might destroy the Cardinals next week but get **** on by the (Bradyless) Pats after.

Edited September 21, 2016 by Beef Jerky

[26CornerBlitz]

1 good week won't work they NEED to win these next 2 and maybe the three after just to make people believe again. This team has no ability to be consistent. They might destroy the Cardinals next week but get **** on by the (Bradyless) Pats after.

 

They have most definitely been inconsistent in Ryan's 18 game tenure. They have nothing to hang their collective hats on.

[vorpma]

 

Dude...Rex isn't their dad..

 

Even if he was and told them to quit hitting the weed and quit eating 4 cheeseburgers at dinner time, it is very unlikely they would have listened to him.

 

You can blame Rex for a lot, but not any of that. Those are all personal character issues that are not Rex's fault at all.

 

Sorry, they're not.

 

Hate Rex all you want....But don't blame him for **** he doesn't contry

 

Try drafting and signing players of character? Just a thought dude!

 

I'd just like to point out that the Pats are winning without Tom Brady

They could start the cleaning lady and win!

[Captain_Quint]

Rex took a top 5 defense and made it the laughing stock of the league. The race to the bottom churned into a new gear when he hired his brother. Brandon, Whaley and the Pegulas should have known better. The Browns were better than this sorry team until McCown went down.

 

He's allowed Sammy Watkins to be invisible in half the games he played. And there are no receivers on the team that are anything but a #4 at best on most every other team, but thy won't get Sammy involved? Idiotic.

 

He has no control over his players:

• Rex let a rookie of the year candidate turn into a fat, pothead and had to cut him lose.
• Rex allows a starting RT, a known pothead when drafted, and does nothing to change him and he had to be caught and fined three times before he's suspended. Where is the foresight to fix his issues? He was a problem when you drafted him after he was busted at the combine and he still can't figure it out? His major problem isn't Crohns disease it's between his ears.
• Rex allows his all pro DT to turn into or stay a pothead. Who knows if this jerk will even be out of rehab by the time his suspension is up or what kind of shape the overgrown baby will be in.

Rex is a players coach my ***. Rex' head is up his players ***es. As I stated when he hired his fat ***ed brother, it will be nothing but a ****show. I had no problem Rex attending his son's Clemson game this Saturday. I had a big problem that Rob -- who should have been fired -- went to the game instead of trying to fix his lousy defense.

 

Shaq Lawson will be a bigger bust than the lightweight we had from Penn State.

Dont forget that he allowed Manny Lawson to beat up his old lady (or whatever he did) and then had to cut him. But to be fair, the bi*** had it comin.

[PolishDave]

Try drafting and signing players of character? Just a thought dude!

 

That's not on Rex. That is on Whaley.

[D521646]

Well, the OP certainly did and it was when I refuted his position that you chimed in with the old "Model T" analogy. That's not be making crap up so much as you now deciding to move the goalposts.

 

Whatever defense he uses is indeed getting beaten over and over and over. That doesn't mean it's antiquated or is every defense that gets beaten over and over and over also antiquated?

 

Stick to the comedy.

 

 

You didn't refute anything. The 46 defense relies heavily on isolating corners man on man, plugging up the middle of the field with safeties, and bailing linebackers. The 46 defense was inspired by stopping the run and short quick read game. Generally speaking this defense is ideal for that kind of offense. Problem is that outside of maybe a few teams in the NFL using the pure West Coast offense, most teams have deep threats, and larger, much more athletic WR's, and TE's. It's antiquated in that, in the 70's and 80's receivers were much smaller, TE's were used to block, and most teams had running first on their minds. If you're playing a team like that, then the 46 is your boy, if not, then you need to adjust. Granted, Rex doesn't always run the 46, he DOES use variations of the 34, and 43, but his base, his STANDARD model if you will, is the 46. He teaches to his players, and then makes variations on this basic principle. Stack the box, (Or show it), force the offense to kill the run, and then bail the OLB, and FS/SS in short intermediate zones. No cover 2, and rarely if ever does Rex run a cover 3, in fact, I'd like you to show me on the All-22 a single example of a true cover 3 this year.

 

So, no, you did not refute anything other than your strawman argument, and we all know how easy there are to beat.

 

Tim-

[rockpile]

i know every team deals with injuries, but we are down 2 very important pieces(Dareus & Lawson), our 2 top tiered draft picks are injured, teams need time to heal those wounds, and training camp just doesn't cut it, I hate to throw out 4 games, but once Dareus is back i think we will see a marked improvement(not saying he's superman, but he is a very very important part of this overall scheme)

 

This is NOT a shot at you, Poojer, but doesn't it seem like we are saying this every year now?

[The Poojer]

yes, absolutely, but i am the eternal optimist...i have to be

 

 

 

This is NOT a shot at you, Poojer, but doesn't it seem like we are saying this every year now?

[blargo]

I will admit I was wrong also. I was wondering why they hired Rex, with a strong D already, but thought that the D would have still been good under him and if they could get the O working better. Last year I thought many times if we had that O with the previous years D the playoff drought would be over.

 

Coming into this year I was even more hopeful. If the D could buy in and get better and the O improve a bit more this team could be real strong. With Brady out for us I really thought we could start 4-0. The the last 2 weeks happened. The D was better against a bad Baltimore O and just terrible against a good Jets O. Our O is feast or famine and does not put together long time consuming drives. But we can hit the big play.

 

This team is totally mismanaged and now I am wondering when the quit on the season? If the Cards go up 14-0 early does the team just quit? Do we have to be in games early to stay interested? If we start the season 0-4 is that enough to give Rex the boot? 0-9? I am now feeling that the season is out of our reach, I could be wrong and they all pull together and use the us against the world, we will see this week.

[OP Class75]

People, the season just started. The Bills will get Dareus, Sh. Lawson, S. Henderson, and M. Easley back very soon. Help is on the way.

So I guess all we needed was Lawson last year to make the playoffs....We had the others. I am just waiting with baited breath for these four to join roster....That was not an earthquake you just felt, it was BeliCheat shaking in his boots!!!!

[boyst]

Why won't anyone tell me how Rex hasn't screwed up the defense and has no understanding of it. Honestly... I keep hearing people demand a debate on this and putting others down.

 

I want x's and o's... I want to know how Rex's amazing d is succeeding

[K-9]

You didn't refute anything. The 46 defense relies heavily on isolating corners man on man, plugging up the middle of the field with safeties, and bailing linebackers. The 46 defense was inspired by stopping the run and short quick read game. Generally speaking this defense is ideal for that kind of offense. Problem is that outside of maybe a few teams in the NFL using the pure West Coast offense, most teams have deep threats, and larger, much more athletic WR's, and TE's. It's antiquated in that, in the 70's and 80's receivers were much smaller, TE's were used to block, and most teams had running first on their minds. If you're playing a team like that, then the 46 is your boy, if not, then you need to adjust. Granted, Rex doesn't always run the 46, he DOES use variations of the 34, and 43, but his base, his STANDARD model if you will, is the 46. He teaches to his players, and then makes variations on this basic principle. Stack the box, (Or show it), force the offense to kill the run, and then bail the OLB, and FS/SS in short intermediate zones. No cover 2, and rarely if ever does Rex run a cover 3, in fact, I'd like you to show me on the All-22 a single example of a true cover 3 this year.out

 

So, no, you did not refute anything other than your strawman argument, and we all know how easy there are to beat.

 

Tim-

Please tell me, EXACTLY, what percentage of the time Rex Ryan runs his father's 46 defense. Never mind, because the answer is little bordering on never.

 

People see man coverage and automatically associate that with the 46 and say that's all we run without paying attention to the fronts, which is what REALLY identifies the scheme. Man coverage is used in all schemes at one time or another. It's worth mentioning we were beaten for big pass plays while incorporating zone concepts as well last Thursday.

 

Or people see us bringing a safety into the box and again automatically assume the 46 without paying attention to what side he's lined up on or if there are two LBs bracketing the strong side.

 

Perhaps people should get a better idea of what they are proclaiming is being run and saying is antiquated before doing so.

 

I am not offering any strawman argument, just trying to bring some clarity to the issue. The OP clearly stated it was about the 46. Closer scrutiny reveals that our defense sucked for other reasons. That's all. No need to get defensive about that.

[4merper4mer]

Please tell me, EXACTLY, what percentage of the time Rex Ryan runs his father's 46 defense. Never mind, because the answer is little bordering on never.

 

People see man coverage and automatically associate that with the 46 and say that's all we run without paying attention to the fronts, which is what REALLY identifies the scheme. Man coverage is used in all schemes at one time or another. It's worth mentioning we were beaten for big pass plays while incorporating zone concepts as well last Thursday.

 

Or people see us bringing a safety into the box and again automatically assume the 46 without paying attention to what side he's lined up on or if there are two LBs bracketing the strong side.

 

Perhaps people should get a better idea of what they are proclaiming is being run and saying is antiquated before doing so.

 

I am not offering any strawman argument, just trying to bring some clarity to the issue. The OP clearly stated it was about the 46. Closer scrutiny reveals that our defense sucked for other reasons. That's all. No need to get defensive about that.

 

 

How about we just agree to call it the "pile of crap defense" and move on. I propose this terminology because it accurately describes the results and allows refocus on the essential point:

 

It doesn't matter if it is cover 1, cover 2, 46, 52 or 93 defense. Whatever it is, it is failing miserably, players don't understand it and Rex is unable to fix it. So if he goes with a cover 1 look on first down and the Jets gain 20 then he goes 46 and the Jets game 35 then he goes cover 2 and the jets throw a TD, calling it the "pile of crap" defense is accurate and does not cast aspersions on one scheme or another. This debacle deserves its own name and "pile of crap" seems fitting. I could also live with "albatross", "cyanide" or "2 on 11" as monikers.

[K-9]

How about we just agree to call it the "pile of crap defense" and move on. I propose this terminology because it accurately describes the results and allows refocus on the essential point:

 

It doesn't matter if it is cover 1, cover 2, 46, 52 or 93 defense. Whatever it is, it is failing miserably, players don't understand it and Rex is unable to fix it. So if he goes with a cover 1 look on first down and the Jets gain 20 then he goes 46 and the Jets game 35 then he goes cover 2 and the jets throw a TD, calling it the "pile of crap" defense is accurate and does not cast aspersions on one scheme or another. This debacle deserves its own name and "pile of crap" seems fitting. I could also live with "albatross", "cyanide" or "2 on 11" as monikers.

 

Works for me. I'll just keep the closer scrutiny to myself then.

[CommonCents]

 

 

How about we just agree to call it the "pile of crap defense" and move on. I propose this terminology because it accurately describes the results and allows refocus on the essential point:

 

It doesn't matter if it is cover 1, cover 2, 46, 52 or 93 defense. Whatever it is, it is failing miserably, players don't understand it and Rex is unable to fix it. So if he goes with a cover 1 look on first down and the Jets gain 20 then he goes 46 and the Jets game 35 then he goes cover 2 and the jets throw a TD, calling it the "pile of crap" defense is accurate and does not cast aspersions on one scheme or another. This debacle deserves its own name and "pile of crap" seems fitting. I could also live with "albatross", "cyanide" or "2 on 11" as monikers.

Call me Cover 1, 2, 46, 53, 93, Just don't call me Cover WR.

[4merper4mer]

Works for me. I'll just keep the closer scrutiny to myself then.

I wasn't discouraging you from posting.

 

My point is that whatever we are running is not working and we are getting beaten over and over and over again. There is a reason for this which is scheme based perhaps with its roots in some specific scheme. Maybe it is too many schemes being run at once. Maybe it is poor disguising, poor communication or poor something else.

 

Whatever the causes, Rex's scheming is failing. Because we played Thursday and 6 days have passed and Big Cat thinks he has looked at film or read an article on the internet does not mean what we saw on that broadcast worked or should have worked. It didn't. And it won't. Pointing out that someone is technically incorrect calling it a 46 or whatever won't change that. It is Rex's scheme and it is a complete and utter failure. From this point forward I will call it the Cyanide Defense but you can call it whatever you'd like. I enjoy reading the details you provide until people start saying this is how it could have worked or that is how it should have worked. It isn't working. The D worked well before Rex arrived.

 

Now here we are needing a 42 round draft to stock our defense with guys no other team wants while we ignore offensive needs only to have people point to the offense as the "real" problem. It's ridiculous.

[Billznut]

The beautiful thing about all this back and forth arguing, the pro Rex vs anti-Rex crowd, the blind homers vs the pessimists, everyone can voice their opinion and insist they at right BUT it's all played out, on the field, every Sunday. Rex will either coach himself out of town or get things fixed. Tyrod will either learn to become a semi-franchise QB or he won't, and if not he will be gone as well. No one's opinions are changing due to these posts. The only thing remaining to be seen is which camp is right and whichever side loses will they admit they were wrong in hindsight.

Edited September 21, 2016 by Billznut