I was wrong, and I don't mind saying it..

[Nihilarian]

Again with the old and antiquated talk? As I said last week, you know what's older than the 46? Wade Philips' 34, which goes back to the 70s when Bum Philips first experimented with the under looks. And that itself was a variation of the old Oklahoma 44. And to say nobody else uses the 46 is a misnomer as both the Panthers and Rams use variations just like Ryan does. Actually, I think Ryan's hybrid 46 resembles the original 46 less than those of the Panthers and Rams as RR runs it through a 34 front instead of the 43 of it's original iteration.

 

Regardless what we want to call it, today's offensive formations really dictate other schemes, anyway. But every team brings it's SS up from time to time for that "8 in the box" look and many teams will put two LBs on the strong side as well. Point is, it's not a one fit for all and not even RR is dumb enough to insist that it is. That syrupy pre-game piece last week where Rex says he will honor his dad by lining up in the 46 for the first play every game notwithstanding.

Rex's defensive scheme is old fashioned in his running a two-gap the majority of the time and most teams simply don't run it that much anymore. The biggest problem with that two-gap is it asks the pass rushers to stay put and to control the gaps so that when the ball is snapped instead of instantly teeing off on the QB they are forced to wait and read which direction the play is going in and then react. This kills the pass rush and puts the DB's on an island in coverage for far too long. We saw this last year in going from second in 2013, first in the NFL in sacks in 2014 to next to last under Ryan in 2015.

 

Then Ryan over complicates the defense with far more plays and reads involved that are needed and unless the players are familiar with the system there are far too many delays in reading and reacting.

 

OTOH, Wade Phillps uses a 3-4 one-gap scheme as do most teams that run a 3-4. Mike Pettine used a one-gap scheme in Buffalo in 2013 which is why his defense was #2 in the NFL in sacks and not so good against the run. If you look at how Rob Ryan fared in NO you would see that teams eventually caught up with his scheme. Not only that you need specific types of players to make that scheme work in that the D-line players should be big, strong maulers that can take on a 320Lb plus O-linemen.

 

JMHO

[Luxy312]

I can honestly say that I was spot on 100% in terms of what could happen and what has happened thus far. The offense has sputtered. Let's be honest in the Jets game, 45% of the offense was on only 3 plays. The other 55% earned was on 47 plays. That is anemic to say the least. Last year, I posted on TBD that for the offense to get better, Taylor had to make more anticipatory throws to mid-range targets. Basically he had to throw to where the receiver was going, not where he is. Last year I said that teams would play 2-deep safeties to take away the long ball and for the most part, that's what has happened. Thursday, we saw an offense that either threw to the line of scrimmage or threw a bomb, with hardly anything going to the middle. I'll withhold judgement until we see whether it appears that's Roman or whether that's Taylor at fault. I do think it's the latter, but 2 games isn't enough data to say with certainty. Defensively, we saw a tale of two teams. They looked solid against Baltimore, despite the inability of the offense to do anything. +1 on turnovers and they should have won the game. Against the Jets though, it's all Rex. His refusal to give safety help to the corners getting beat on play after play is baffling. Just seems like another instance where Rex just thinks he's smarter than everyone else and it made Ryan Fitzpatrick look like Tom Brady. He did the same thing last year and I was afraid it was going to spill over into this year. Yet again, it seems like there's truth there. Buffalo opened as 6.5 point dogs in Vegas to the Cardinals. I really don't give them much hope to win that game. There's always a chance in Buffalo, but then on the road to Foxboro next says 0-4 to start.

[John from Riverside]

Let me say congrats on admitting your mistaken predictions. I too must also apologize, for being too right. If you are too right on this board you will be banned. It often takes an extra year for most here to see what I see and then becomes the most commonly cliche thing to say.

 

I said after 2 games last year that TT just throws deep or to the sideline and wasnt using the middle. It wasnt til the off-season it suddenly became the most common criticism of his play.

 

I said Mario should be cut after about 3 games in last year and got flamed hard.

 

I said Rex is just plain dumb and his team plays dumb and out of control evidenced by ridiculous 15 yard penalties and bad clock management.( no one argued this but I saw it week 2)

 

I said we shouldnt have let fitz go, well he cant throw deep but he wins 10-11 games a year and tore us apart last thurs with the MIDDLE range throws down the MIDDLE of the field. Now one EJ and TT later how are we looking at QB?

 

I said from the get go that Watkins looked tentative and was dropping balls thrown in traffic since his rookie year. Has that changed?

 

I said that trading for shady would end up costing us 5 players and that he wasnt worth even losing Kiko, well it worked out that Shady cost us Fred Jackson, Bryce Brown (and his 4rth rounder we traded away), Kiko, and would have cost us Glenn had we not found Mario suddenly expendable, but thats still 5 and his contract still may cost us Gilmore. This was before I knew he was a psycho, and all hes been doing is losing yards on first down lately. All Kiko did Sunday was make 7 tackles, recover a fumble, and knock Garapalo out of the game when it was 24-0 giving the fish a chance to come back.

 

I was banned for that and each of the opinions I posted above. I guess I should just post the opposite of what I think and make everyone happy then ill apologize a year later when im "wrong"

shush

[GunnerBill]

 

Dareus is arguably the best player on the team. That hasn't been brought up a whole lot now that the Rex Sux Crusade is back in full force.

Crusade??? Cru-!@#$ing-sade???

 

You are damn right it is a crusade the bloke is an incomptent idiot and he has ruined this team. The next 14 will be ugly but then he will be gone. And you will still be making excuses for him.

Edited September 20, 2016 by GunnerBill

[K-9]

Rex's defensive scheme is old fashioned in his running a two-gap the majority of the time and most teams simply don't run it that much anymore. The biggest problem with that two-gap is it asks the pass rushers to stay put and to control the gaps so that when the ball is snapped instead of instantly teeing off on the QB they are forced to wait and read which direction the play is going in and then react. This kills the pass rush and puts the DB's on an island in coverage for far too long. We saw this last year in going from second in 2013, first in the NFL in sacks in 2014 to next to last under Ryan in 2015.

 

Then Ryan over complicates the defense with far more plays and reads involved that are needed and unless the players are familiar with the system there are far too many delays in reading and reacting.

 

OTOH, Wade Phillps uses a 3-4 one-gap scheme as do most teams that run a 3-4. Mike Pettine used a one-gap scheme in Buffalo in 2013 which is why his defense was #2 in the NFL in sacks and not so good against the run. If you look at how Rob Ryan fared in NO you would see that teams eventually caught up with his scheme. Not only that you need specific types of players to make that scheme work in that the D-line players should be big, strong maulers that can take on a 320Lb plus O-linemen.

 

JMHO

I play this game where I count how many words into your posts before I see the term "2 gap." Only 11 today, so we set a new record.

 

I admit he sometimes prefers a two gap fit in more obvious running downs, but not all that much, really, as it's mostly dictated by offensive personnel and formation. It's just not as prominent as some like to believe. Much of the time vs the Jets for example, he had his DL playing one gap or shading, for example. Yeah, there were a few snaps where KW was in a 0 technique, but it wasn't often.

 

And before you go into your "Mario was wasted in the two gap philosophy" just know that is part and parcel to an being a strong side edge player in a 34 front. We can say he was wasted in that role but that's another argument as MW certainly had the athletic chops to play the technique. And not for nothing, after the bye last season we saw less and less of our down lineman playing 2 gap responsibilities.

 

Anyway, this particular discussion pertained to the assertion that Ryan's "46 is antiquated" when he really didn't use much of it in the losing effort last week.

Edited September 20, 2016 by K-9

[boyst]

 

From a defensive perspective, game 1 was very good with game two being putrid as I'm sure you already knew.

game 1 was horrible defensively. The ravens had nothing and have nothing on offense and we still had them take all the time in the world to do whatever they want

[CardinalScotts]

give us browns and bears and were 2-0......keep supporting this team

[4merper4mer]

I play this game where I count how many words into your posts before I see the term "2 gap." Only 11 today, so we set a new record.

 

I admit he sometimes prefers a two gap fit in more obvious running downs, but not all that much, really, as it's mostly dictated by offensive personnel and formation. It's just not as prominent as some like to believe. Much of the time vs the Jets for example, he had his DL playing one gap or shading, for example. Yeah, there were a few snaps where KW was in a 0 technique, but it wasn't often.

 

And before you go into your "Mario was wasted in the two gap philosophy" just know that is part and parcel to an being a strong side edge player in a 34 front. We can say he was wasted in that role but that's another argument as MW certainly had the athletic chops to play the technique. And not for nothing, after the bye last season we saw less and less of our down lineman playing 2 gap responsibilities.

 

Anyway, this particular discussion pertained to the assertion that Ryan's "46 is antiquated" when he really didn't use much of it in the losing effort last week.

Dude. Analyze it any way you want but the friggin defense cannot stop anyone. That is on the defensive genius coach that keeps saying he is going to fix it. It's a joke,

[boyst]

2 games

18 games of what Rex Ryan is capable of in Buffalo and 6 years of those capabilities in NY.

 

You can't say it takes 3 yrs to install a defense and team and hold your hat on Rex Ryan's first 3 seasons a decade ago. That's one hundred years.

 

What I saw Rex Ryan and his brother not do on defense was disgusting.

[DC Tom]

Let me say congrats on admitting your mistaken predictions. I too must also apologize, for being too right. If you are too right on this board you will be banned. It often takes an extra year for most here to see what I see and then becomes the most commonly cliche thing to say.

 

I said after 2 games last year that TT just throws deep or to the sideline and wasnt using the middle. It wasnt til the off-season it suddenly became the most common criticism of his play.

 

I said Mario should be cut after about 3 games in last year and got flamed hard.

 

I said Rex is just plain dumb and his team plays dumb and out of control evidenced by ridiculous 15 yard penalties and bad clock management.( no one argued this but I saw it week 2)

 

I said we shouldnt have let fitz go, well he cant throw deep but he wins 10-11 games a year and tore us apart last thurs with the MIDDLE range throws down the MIDDLE of the field. Now one EJ and TT later how are we looking at QB?

 

I said from the get go that Watkins looked tentative and was dropping balls thrown in traffic since his rookie year. Has that changed?

 

I said that trading for shady would end up costing us 5 players and that he wasnt worth even losing Kiko, well it worked out that Shady cost us Fred Jackson, Bryce Brown (and his 4rth rounder we traded away), Kiko, and would have cost us Glenn had we not found Mario suddenly expendable, but thats still 5 and his contract still may cost us Gilmore. This was before I knew he was a psycho, and all hes been doing is losing yards on first down lately. All Kiko did Sunday was make 7 tackles, recover a fumble, and knock Garapalo out of the game when it was 24-0 giving the fish a chance to come back.

 

I was banned for that and each of the opinions I posted above. I guess I should just post the opposite of what I think and make everyone happy then ill apologize a year later when im "wrong"

 

No one's banned here because of their opinions. More likely you were banned for being an insufferably smug prick.

[boyst]

 

Since we're going there....Two AFC Championship Game Appearances. But really, WGAS about what he did with the NYJ.

why does his first 3 yrs in buffalo not matter but his first 3 in NY do?

 

History only matters when it is relevant.

[4merper4mer]

18 games of what Rex Ryan is capable of in Buffalo and 6 years of those capabilities in NY.

 

You can't say it takes 3 yrs to install a defense and team and hold your hat on Rex Ryan's first 3 seasons a decade ago. That's one hundred years.

 

What I saw Rex Ryan and his brother not do on defense was disgusting.

Add Rob's recent years to the mix and you're approaching a football eternity.

[DC Tom]

 

I think with the way the game has changed in terms of how penalties are called and how it is turned into a passing league the 46 defense no longer is sustainable.

You cannot leave your CB's isolated for an entire game and not expect them to get burned.

 

THAT is an interesting observation.

[K-9]

Dude. Analyze it any way you want but the friggin defense cannot stop anyone. That is on the defensive genius coach that keeps saying he is going to fix it. It's a joke,

I think I freely admit our defense can't stop anyone. Have always been when that's the case.

 

I just want you to be smarter in the reasons why. I'm just saying the "46" and "two gap" aren't the reason. I understand it's a buzz kill for the crusade though. Carry on, soldier!

[boyst]

People, the season just started. The Bills will get Dareus, Sh. Lawson, S. Henderson, and M. Easley back very soon. Help is on the way.

what many are seeing has nothing to do with talent. That's what no one gets.

 

His lack of adaptive scheming. His inability to achieve success in basic form. Sure he can stop the run and a lousy ravens offense... but he bets bent over on the passing and still let Forte look all pro.

 

Its a lot of x's and o's that won't do much for conversation except cause the kool aiders to get upset.

[4merper4mer]

I think I freely admit our defense can't stop anyone. Have always been when that's the case.

 

I just want you to be smarter in the reasons why. I'm just saying the "46" and "two gap" aren't the reason. I understand it's a buzz kill for the crusade though. Carry on, soldier!

Rex is awesome.

 

Am I supposed to feel better now?

Edited September 20, 2016 by 4merper4mer

[Original Byrd Man]

Let me say congrats on admitting your mistaken predictions. I too must also apologize, for being too right. If you are too right on this board you will be banned. It often takes an extra year for most here to see what I see and then becomes the most commonly cliche thing to say.

 

I said after 2 games last year that TT just throws deep or to the sideline and wasnt using the middle. It wasnt til the off-season it suddenly became the most common criticism of his play.

 

I said Mario should be cut after about 3 games in last year and got flamed hard.

 

I said Rex is just plain dumb and his team plays dumb and out of control evidenced by ridiculous 15 yard penalties and bad clock management.( no one argued this but I saw it week 2)

 

I said we shouldnt have let fitz go, well he cant throw deep but he wins 10-11 games a year and tore us apart last thurs with the MIDDLE range throws down the MIDDLE of the field. Now one EJ and TT later how are we looking at QB?

 

I said from the get go that Watkins looked tentative and was dropping balls thrown in traffic since his rookie year. Has that changed?

 

I said that trading for shady would end up costing us 5 players and that he wasnt worth even losing Kiko, well it worked out that Shady cost us Fred Jackson, Bryce Brown (and his 4rth rounder we traded away), Kiko, and would have cost us Glenn had we not found Mario suddenly expendable, but thats still 5 and his contract still may cost us Gilmore. This was before I knew he was a psycho, and all hes been doing is losing yards on first down lately. All Kiko did Sunday was make 7 tackles, recover a fumble, and knock Garapalo out of the game when it was 24-0 giving the fish a chance to come back.

 

I was banned for that and each of the opinions I posted above. I guess I should just post the opposite of what I think and make everyone happy then ill apologize a year later when im "wrong"

No offence but you said 5 players and only listed 3 players, a draft pick who may or may not be on some ones roster and speculation on whether or not the Bill's could have inked Glenn . Two of the players Jackson and Brown I believe are out of the league. I will give you Alonso but at the time he was coming off a major injury and to be honest no one knows for sure how much longer he will play. And I will agree with you about Mario. I would have sat him until he was ready to play.

[boyst]

 

You don't know which game the defense played well in and which it did not?

what did we do well against the ravens? I just don't see it? Gilmore and Darby looked awful.

 

Tired analogies don't disguise that fact that you don't know anything about Football or Hockey for that matter. Delete your account.

OK what would you like to know about Rex's defense? Because I can answer these questions if you ask a question which is something that can be answered. Otherwise a vague schematic answer is all you'll get.

 

You prove you know nothing more than he, so lay off the harsh insults.

Yes, the defense was beaten. But in all the Jet big plays I've reviewed, including all of the Cover1 plays, aside from man coverage on the corners, I didn't see elements of the 46 being used. Or are you going to insist that all man coverage is the 46 defense? And at least one big play occurred with our secondary playing a zone concept.

 

Again, our defense sucked last year and sucked last Thursday. But to simply say it's because Ryan is using the "antiquated 46 defense" is incorrect. It's a personnel issue more than anything else at the moment.

46 or not whatever scheme Rex tried did not work. Cover 0, 1. And 3 were tried a lot. Cover 6 even.

 

Rex could not find ways to keep the WR's out of the middle of the field. And it was because he stuffed our safeties in the box or let the wrs get behind them every single time. Which against the ravens was opposite. It was... mind blowing

[K-9]

Rex is awesome.

 

Am I supposed to feel better now?

Please find a post where I even came close to saying Rex was awesome. You won't because they don't exist. But that is your go to move when people offer a more nuanced analysis of the situation than just the tired "the 46 is antiquated" or "nobody runs a 2 gap 34" arguments that aren't supported by closer scrutiny. And that's been my only point in this thread but you insist on seeing it as a defense of Ryan when it's just a clarification of mistaken information.

 

I don't think you'll feel better until Rex is fired.

... 46 or not whatever scheme Rex tried did not work. Cover 0, 1. And 3 were tried a lot. Cover 6 even.

 

Rex could not find ways to keep the WR's out of the middle of the field. And it was because he stuffed our safeties in the box or let the wrs get behind them every single time. Which against the ravens was opposite. It was... mind blowing

I don't know how many more ways I can say I don't disagree as I've said the defense sucks. I just want to be clear on why. It starts with Rex, but it certainly doesn't end with the "46" and "two gap." Personally, I think we have a huge personnel issue at the moment. That's not a defense of Rex either, by the way. Just an observation.

[4merper4mer]

 

I don't think you'll feel better until Rex is fired.

 

 

I will feel better when our defense consistently stops the other team. My guess is that this occurrence will come some time after the one you mention.