MAJBobby Posted September 19, 2016 Posted September 19, 2016 (edited) God that is such crap..... Can and Has Taylor thrown inside the numbers? Can and has Taylor thrown anticipatory throws? Don't even get me started on the presnap read issues and the ghost pressure problems Edited September 19, 2016 by MAJBobby
John from Riverside Posted September 19, 2016 Posted September 19, 2016 Can and Has Taylor thrown inside the numbers? Can and has Taylor thrown anticipatory throws? Don't even get me started on the presnap read issues and the ghost pressure problems Still waiting for the alternative that you cant give
MAJBobby Posted September 19, 2016 Posted September 19, 2016 (edited) Still waiting for the alternative that you cant give Right now... Force him too and then if he continues to fail do not pick him his option. No reason to "hide" your QB issues and leave yourself with ???? when it comes time to pick his option up. I mean afterall the FO put themselves in this position by doing this contract when it wasn't needed to be done in the first place. Edited September 19, 2016 by MAJBobby
Nihilarian Posted September 19, 2016 Posted September 19, 2016 Or maybe neither is a true franchise qb and Roman was hiding a lot of their faults. Time will tell. Very true! Plus, Roman was attempting to develop both QB's in different situations and sometimes different people learn at different speeds. Kaepernick was failing at becoming a pocket QB and when opposing teams stopped the run game and forced him to pass to beat them he failed, a lot! Things looked to be going the very same way with Taylor this year in asking him to be more of a pocket passer rather than run so often. This new Bills OC may accelerate Tyrod's learning curve and help him or ruin him if he isn't ready to make that pocket passer jump to all out down field throwing. Like you said, Time will tell.
Bleeding Bills Blue Posted September 19, 2016 Posted September 19, 2016 (edited) Can and Has Taylor thrown inside the numbers? Can and has Taylor thrown anticipatory throws? Don't even get me started on the presnap read issues and the ghost pressure problems I'm not sure we call a ton of plays designed with this in mind. I'm not saying he doesn't have issues - he does. But at the same token, any college kid we draft is going to have issues in one way or another. We don't line up under center or run from under center, he doesn't have much freedom to change plays, we don't play action, we don't bootleg, we only do designed QB runs on 3rd and 1/2. And those designed runs tended to be towards the sidelines, with the rest of Roman's offense. He's not good enough of a pocket passer for that to be his whole game, unless we're going to rock some little short passes to backs/slot guys. We can't do a ton of RB screens, since we typically have linebackers playing contain closer to the line, who can blow up screens if they aren't blocked. But WR screens should open up more with the deep passing game as DBs start playing off more. He needs to master that throw, because its like free yardage if you get it where the receiver can run right after they catch it. We don't run these much since 90% of our formations have the receivers really close to the o-line. Slant window's should also open up as linebackers play closer to the line. This also requires that our receivers play out wider so they can get a step on the coverage. I'd also like to see packaged plays in the repertoire. You need to be at the line quick to read the defense, but basically receivers run routes, and theirs usually a zone read built in as well. Make the call at the line and snap. There's usually a slant/bubble-screen/zone read all on the same play. Receivers run their routes and the QB decides what we actually do. Edited September 19, 2016 by dneveu
GunnerBill Posted September 19, 2016 Posted September 19, 2016 Still waiting for the alternative that you cant give There is no alternative for now John. The question is not is there an alternative "for now." This season is sunk. The question is can Tyrod show the things he needs to show to earn the potential big money deal that is on the table for him next year. If he can't then I am not for paying him huge money in 2017 and my alternative would be simple - draft a Quarterback and let a new staff bring him on the way they feel they need to. If you have to find a vet to tide them over then pick one up and accept that you probably won't make the play-offs in 2017 unless your rookie turns out to be special.
FLFan Posted September 19, 2016 Posted September 19, 2016 God that is such crap..... You are wasting your time. I am hopeful rational discussion will return to TSW soon, but we are clearly not there yet.
MAJBobby Posted September 19, 2016 Posted September 19, 2016 I'm not sure we call a ton of plays designed with this in mind. I'm not saying he doesn't have issues - he does. But at the same token, any college kid we draft is going to have issues in one way or another. We don't line up under center or run from under center, he doesn't have much freedom to change plays, we don't play action, we don't bootleg, we only do designed QB runs on 3rd and 1/2. And those designed runs tended to be towards the sidelines, with the rest of Roman's offense. He's not good enough of a pocket passer for that to be his whole game, unless we're going to rock some little short passes to backs/slot guys. We can't do a ton of RB screens, since we typically have linebackers playing contain closer to the line, who can blow up screens if they aren't blocked. But WR screens should open up more with the deep passing game as DBs start playing off more. He needs to master that throw, because its like free yardage if you get it where the receiver can run right after they catch it. We don't run these much since 90% of our formations have the receivers really close to the o-line. Slant window's should also open up as linebackers play closer to the line. This also requires that our receivers play out wider so they can get a step on the coverage. Slants are an anticipatory throw... IE throw to the window, reason we don't see them is Taylor needs to see WR open before he throws, this is no different than EJ was. And yes those plays are all called you can see Clay open in the seams all the time when watching the all 22. When a team doesn't have to respect the middle of the field past 9 yards, it makes everything you try to do as an offense impossible. And going into year 2 Taylor has shown defenses they do not need to worry about getting beat over the LBer and between the Safeties, so they can squat on the short stuff, kill running, blitz more often, spy Taylor. When the Defense as the freedom of ignoring an area of the field because the QB wont go there it is like having another defender on the field. Still waiting for the alternative that you cant give As a Front office you have a 27M dollar decision to make at the end of the season. So if I am making that decision I better be darn sure my QB can actually play QB
flaz Posted September 19, 2016 Posted September 19, 2016 So you are saying forcing him to be a QB. With the exception of size, Tyrod and Cam have similar skill sets. You sure wouldn't want to force Cam to stay in the pocket would you??
Fadingpain Posted September 19, 2016 Posted September 19, 2016 Maybe a silver lining... but so far weeks 1 and 2 of the 2016 season resulted in a version of Tyrod similar to Collin Kapernick's year 2 under Roman.... As if he was forced to stay in the pocket, read defenses, and use his legs only as a last resort... I'm hopeful that Tyrod is going to let loose this week in Arizona and run a bit more based on comments from Rex on Roman's firing. Your thinking is pennywise and pound foolish. I agree Tyrod is likely to be slightly more productive, near term, if he ad libs and runs around. The problem is that this is not a winning equation in the NFL. A QB who plays in this manner will never achieve consistent results or avoid injury. A QB who can not sit in the pocket, read defenses, anticipate, and make accurate throws in tight windows while exposing the weaknesses of a given defensive scheme will never enjoy long term success in the NFL. Tyrod is not that guy.
MAJBobby Posted September 19, 2016 Posted September 19, 2016 With the exception of size, Tyrod and Cam have similar skill sets. You sure wouldn't want to force Cam to stay in the pocket would you?? Cam is a throwing QB that can run. He makes the throws I am complaining Tyrod wont. Big difference sorry you cant see that.
boyst Posted September 19, 2016 Posted September 19, 2016 The reality that Taylor is maybe not a starting calibre QB should only be more bitterwsweet that we just got beat not Fitz
Jobot Posted September 19, 2016 Author Posted September 19, 2016 Your thinking is pennywise and pound foolish. I agree Tyrod is likely to be slightly more productive, near term, if he ad libs and runs around. The problem is that this is not a winning equation in the NFL. A QB who plays in this manner will never achieve consistent results or avoid injury. A QB who can not sit in the pocket, read defenses, anticipate, and make accurate throws in tight windows while exposing the weaknesses of a given defensive scheme will never enjoy long term success in the NFL. Tyrod is not that guy. Cam?
snafu Posted September 19, 2016 Posted September 19, 2016 He can run all he wants I really don't care. Where Tyrod is lacking for me and has been since last year is in two areas. 1. Anticipated Throws 2. Using more of the field than just the alleys. And in 2 games Same issues apply. Maybe so, but have you ever heard any reports that Tyrod wasn't doing the things he was told to do?
MAJBobby Posted September 19, 2016 Posted September 19, 2016 Cam? Throw 1st QB.... Hits the middle, throws anticipatory routes. 6ft 5 245 LBs y
Fadingpain Posted September 19, 2016 Posted September 19, 2016 Cam? Cam is much better than a run around ad lib sort of QB, though when he ran into a strong defense in the Superbowl last year, he was pretty well shut down.
MAJBobby Posted September 19, 2016 Posted September 19, 2016 (edited) Maybe so, but have you ever heard any reports that Tyrod wasn't doing the things he was told to do? Have you ever heard Rex call out one of his boys? Edited September 19, 2016 by MAJBobby
MDH Posted September 19, 2016 Posted September 19, 2016 So you are saying forcing him to be a QB. So the defenses the first two weeks didn't need to do this, his OC was already doing it?
snafu Posted September 19, 2016 Posted September 19, 2016 Have you every heard Rex call out one of his boys? Rarely, but yes -- if you're talking about players. But that's not part of Rex's M.O. He's the front guy when it comes to criticism -- at least to the press. Actually that's the way it should be IMO.
CodeMonkey Posted September 19, 2016 Posted September 19, 2016 With the exception of size, Tyrod and Cam have similar skill sets. You sure wouldn't want to force Cam to stay in the pocket would you?? Size is pretty important for durability if nothing else if you are a running QB. And Newton has shown he can stay in the pocket and be effective. TT is not in the same universe as Newton, at this point in time anyway.
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