Hapless Bills Fan Posted September 19, 2016 Posted September 19, 2016 http://www.buffalobills.com/team/coaches/lee_david/49968f10-6ab2-488d-abc0-852291512e71?qwr=fullsite_temporary This could be the **** show of all NFL coaching resumes. Helped Fitz to a 24 TD season (no mention of INT's). Then to NYJ to coach Geno Smith who "started all 16 games" (yeah, that's the only fluff they could muster). Before that, coached Chad Pennington and Chad Henne. Sign me up. This guy is a keeper. Fitz certainly seemed to devolve under Lee's tutelage. It seemed as though it took him a year or so to recover. He's overall looking like a much better QB today, but when he's interviewed about the alleged improvement, he credits Bill O'brian, certainly not Lee. (We'll see what goes down this year)
TANK2 Posted September 19, 2016 Posted September 19, 2016 His QBs include Quincy Carter -Dal Vinny Testerverde - Dal Drew Bledsoe - Dal Tony Romo - Dal Chad Henne- MIA Chad Pennington - MIA Sanchez - NYJ Smith -NYJ Matt Simms - NYJ Fitz Manuel Etc no real elite QB development going on there Good list that shows talent matters. Bledsoe and Romo very good over a long period of time.Fitx and Pennington average to above average over a long period of time. The rest below average to really bad over a long period of time. Doubt that's David Lee's fault. Or that they excelled only because of him.
mob16151 Posted September 19, 2016 Posted September 19, 2016 (edited) Quincy Carter initially far exceeded expectations in Dallas. To lazy to look up how both of thier careers overlap. Edited September 19, 2016 by mob16151
billyudi Posted September 19, 2016 Posted September 19, 2016 Last year in the preseason Taylor had a lot of zip on his passes, so much so that I remember commentators saying he needs to ease up a bit at times, everything was coming out a fastball. Then the season started and that zip wasn't quite the same, and this year it is non existent. Almost like they have coached him out of just going out there and sling it around the field. Him and EJ now seem to have the same ugly mechanics, that short step, all arm kind of thing. Just my uneducated observation.
MAJBobby Posted September 19, 2016 Posted September 19, 2016 Good list that shows talent matters. Bledsoe and Romo very good over a long period of time.Fitx and Pennington average to above average over a long period of time. The rest below average to really bad over a long period of time. Doubt that's David Lee's fault. Or that they excelled only because of him. Point of that list is he did not develop one young QB into something. Surely not a list of a QB Whisperer, in which he is described
TANK2 Posted September 19, 2016 Posted September 19, 2016 Point of that list is he did not develop one young QB into something. Surely not a list of a QB Whisperer, in which he is described It's a bad list. And a bad way to make a point. Can't make garbage out of garbage. David Lee is the least of my worries at the moment.
Hapless Bills Fan Posted September 19, 2016 Posted September 19, 2016 I thought he made a mess of Fitz the first time he was here. Fitzpatrick doesn't play Quarterback conventionally because he is not conventional. He doesn't have what most Quarterbacks have so giving him the textbook technical pointers and telling him to move his feet like this and rotate his body like that was never going to help him. All of a sudden we ended up with a Fitzpatrick who was even less accurate because he was too busy trying to throw like David Lee wanted him to throw. Fitz is a guy who you just have to say "this is what he is and this is how he plays" and then put pieces around him to help..... you know.... kind of like the Jets have. Meddling with his "technique" is never going to improve him. Timing may matter. Lee tried to mess with Fitz technique starting in OTAs. That's too late. Fitz is a curious beast. A couple years ago I was all "he is what he is". Football Outsiders, which has a curious mixture of stats, actually shows him moving up in their complex DVOA statistics (sort of like total QBR with an attempt to make it more objective). He took a significant jump with Hou from -3.6% to 6.7%, which is about where he is so far this year. His ranking in their system accordingly jumped from 23 to 10th or 11th the last 2 years. In interviews, Fitz credits Obrien with "helping him think differently about the game". Hmmm. Be that as it may, the eyeball test when I've watched Fitz, shows differences. Yes, he's now got big and athletic receivers who help him out by going up or coming back for balls, but unless I was hallucinating I actually saw some very good throw, spirals even, last Thurs. In civilian clothes, his arms and upper body look stronger. I thought he was making throws he couldn't have made when he was with us. Again, unless I misheard, the announcers said something about him leading the league last year in long passes. That sounds incredible (as in "not credible" ) to me, but NFL.com shows him moving up from a consistent ~20th to 10th last year. I think it's possible that Fitz finally 'invested in himself', went out in the off-season and quietly found his own QB whisperer to work with him in the off-season and improve his mechanics, then leave him alone during the season. I could see several years of off-season work potentially making a difference. OTAs, that's too late. Anyway, if he continues to look good and Taylor continues to look bad, I wonder if at some point this board will "turn coat" and start pining for him. I personally think Lee should have been told to pack his bags along with Roman. Me, I think if we'd kept him, we would have gotten "more of the same", so I don't repine.
Captain_Quint Posted September 19, 2016 Posted September 19, 2016 Hitler was once calle a "whisperer", too...
The Frankish Reich Posted September 19, 2016 Posted September 19, 2016 Timing may matter. Lee tried to mess with Fitz technique starting in OTAs. That's too late. Fitz is a curious beast. A couple years ago I was all "he is what he is". Football Outsiders, which has a curious mixture of stats, actually shows him moving up in their complex DVOA statistics (sort of like total QBR with an attempt to make it more objective). He took a significant jump with Hou from -3.6% to 6.7%, which is about where he is so far this year. His ranking in their system accordingly jumped from 23 to 10th or 11th the last 2 years. In interviews, Fitz credits Obrien with "helping him think differently about the game". Hmmm. Be that as it may, the eyeball test when I've watched Fitz, shows differences. Yes, he's now got big and athletic receivers who help him out by going up or coming back for balls, but unless I was hallucinating I actually saw some very good throw, spirals even, last Thurs. In civilian clothes, his arms and upper body look stronger. I thought he was making throws he couldn't have made when he was with us. Again, unless I misheard, the announcers said something about him leading the league last year in long passes. That sounds incredible (as in "not credible" ) to me, but NFL.com shows him moving up from a consistent ~20th to 10th last year. I think it's possible that Fitz finally 'invested in himself', went out in the off-season and quietly found his own QB whisperer to work with him in the off-season and improve his mechanics, then leave him alone during the season. I could see several years of off-season work potentially making a difference. OTAs, that's too late. Anyway, if he continues to look good and Taylor continues to look bad, I wonder if at some point this board will "turn coat" and start pining for him. I personally think Lee should have been told to pack his bags along with Roman. Me, I think if we'd kept him, we would have gotten "more of the same", so I don't repine. Really interesting post. Lots to chew on here. Bills fans still obviously focus on Fitz's late-season and late-in-game failures. But overall, his level of play has been .... kind of 2nd tier starting QB beginning with Houston, and he's keeping it up this year. There are a few recent examples of late bloomers at QB who made a similar shift from good backup type to very good starter - Rich Gannon comes to mind. But as you note, with Fitz we seem to be seeing better throws and not just better skill at breaking down defenses, and that's weird. Maybe it was nagging injuries, maybe it's a new offseason workout regime, maybe it's magic supplements, but whatever it is, his late in career surge is getting to be too sustained to ignore. I know everyone will immediately say "just wait, he'll let the Jets down again." And that's probably true. But I'm talking about him becoming Andy Dalton, not Ben Roethlisberger. And I might as well go ahead and say it: in retrospect, we would have been better off keeping him. That's not to say it was smart to give him the huge extension. I just think that with the benefit of hindsight, the Bills doubled down on their mistake (when have they ever done that before or since?): the extension was ill-advised, but then eating the remainder of the contract and panic drafting EJ was equally ill-advised.
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