simpleman Posted September 18, 2016 Share Posted September 18, 2016 With the recent firing of Roman we hear team spokesmen and TBD posters preaching the supreme importance of coaching stability. I do not believe that the turnover in coaches is the problem with the Bills over the years. Yes, a stable Offensive and Defensive scheme from year to year gives vets time to learn and practice those schemes, to get comfortable in them. But that is not the true sign of a winning team in the NFL in 2016. Yesterday I read a quote from a Miami coach about playing the Patriots. He said you watch 4 different New England games and see 4 completely different NE teams. Their offensive and defensive schemes are tailored specifically to the strengths and weaknesses of the team and the players they are playing in that particular game. And that even in a game, the Patriots adjust the schemes during the game according to what is happening during the game. Flexibility, adjustment and preparation are what makes coaches and teams great. Great teams and coaches look at their own team and select and design schemes and plays that build on the strengths of the players they have and attempt to hide their weakness. No one is perfect, not even million dollar NFL pro stars. Truly great coaches and teams take the time and make the effort to look at the opponents that week and do the same with their game plan. They scheme to exploit their opponents team’s and the individual players weaknesses, and try to protect themselves from their strengths. And they plan alternate scheme adjustments if their original scheme does not work. You don’t blindly follow inflexible fixed schemes game after game or try to put square pegs in round holes when plugging the players you have in your positions of that scheme. Success as a NFL team in the current NFL requires competent coaches, HC, OC & DC down that are able to design their schemes around the talents of the players they have to maximize the team’s ability to win. They have to be willing and able to put in the effort each game to evaluate the opponent that week to scheme the best ways to defeat it. Both the offense and the defense need to have an available catalog of practiced plays to choose from when designing those schemes. And be ready to adjust by swapping out the other plays from that catalog each week during the game if they selected the wrong plays. Rex is the opposite of that, he is arrogant, lazy and tries to follow his own plans no matter what. We wasted a draft dismantling a top defense to remove players that didn’t fit his scheme and drafting players that did. In doing so we left intact an offensive line with a whole questionable right side. And it is not just Rex. Management has to look for and recruit young smart coaches that are creative and flexible who have shown they have the ability to adapt and adjust their schemes to the players the team has, rather than try to adjust the players to their predetermined fixed inflexible scheme. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PolishDave Posted September 18, 2016 Share Posted September 18, 2016 With the recent firing of Roman we hear team spokesmen and TBD posters preaching the supreme importance of coaching stability. I do not believe that the turnover in coaches is the problem with the Bills over the years. Yes, a stable Offensive and Defensive scheme from year to year gives vets time to learn and practice those schemes, to get comfortable in them. But that is not the true sign of a winning team in the NFL in 2016. Yesterday I read a quote from a Miami coach about playing the Patriots. He said you watch 4 different New England games and see 4 completely different NE teams. Their offensive and defensive schemes are tailored specifically to the strengths and weaknesses of the team and the players they are playing in that particular game. And that even in a game, the Patriots adjust the schemes during the game according to what is happening during the game. Flexibility, adjustment and preparation are what makes coaches and teams great. Great teams and coaches look at their own team and select and design schemes and plays that build on the strengths of the players they have and attempt to hide their weakness. No one is perfect, not even million dollar NFL pro stars. Truly great coaches and teams take the time and make the effort to look at the opponents that week and do the same with their game plan. They scheme to exploit their opponents team’s and the individual players weaknesses, and try to protect themselves from their strengths. And they plan alternate scheme adjustments if their original scheme does not work. You don’t blindly follow inflexible fixed schemes game after game or try to put square pegs in round holes when plugging the players you have in your positions of that scheme. Success as a NFL team in the current NFL requires competent coaches, HC, OC & DC down that are able to design their schemes around the talents of the players they have to maximize the team’s ability to win. They have to be willing and able to put in the effort each game to evaluate the opponent that week to scheme the best ways to defeat it. Both the offense and the defense need to have an available catalog of practiced plays to choose from when designing those schemes. And be ready to adjust by swapping out the other plays from that catalog each week during the game if they selected the wrong plays. Rex is the opposite of that, he is arrogant, lazy and tries to follow his own plans no matter what. We wasted a draft dismantling a top defense to remove players that didn’t fit his scheme and drafting players that did. In doing so we left intact an offensive line with a whole questionable right side. And it is not just Rex. Management has to look for and recruit young smart coaches that are creative and flexible who have shown they have the ability to adapt and adjust their schemes to the players the team has, rather than try to adjust the players to their predetermined fixed inflexible scheme. I stopped right after you used the Patriots as your example when in fact the Patriots have been pretty stable at head coach for a while now - haven't they? Poor choice of examples to try and make your point with. You shot yourself in the foot there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted September 18, 2016 Share Posted September 18, 2016 With the recent firing of Roman we hear team spokesmen and TBD posters preaching the supreme importance of coaching stability. I do not believe that the turnover in coaches is the problem with the Bills over the years. Yes, a stable Offensive and Defensive scheme from year to year gives vets time to learn and practice those schemes, to get comfortable in them. But that is not the true sign of a winning team in the NFL in 2016. Yesterday I read a quote from a Miami coach about playing the Patriots. He said you watch 4 different New England games and see 4 completely different NE teams. Their offensive and defensive schemes are tailored specifically to the strengths and weaknesses of the team and the players they are playing in that particular game. And that even in a game, the Patriots adjust the schemes during the game according to what is happening during the game. Flexibility, adjustment and preparation are what makes coaches and teams great. You do realize that in selecting the Pats** as an example against the "supreme importance of coaching stability", you have chosen one of the longest-tenured head coaches in NFL history (16 years)? I think the principle you're getting at is encapsulated by the saying "consistancy: it's only a virtue if you're not a screw-up" Moreover, it's not true that you see a completely different Patriots** team for different opponents. Yes, Bill Belichek** does tailor his approach to the opponents weaknesses and make good in-game adjustments. But the Pats** have a repertoire of things they do well, and they do them consistently. Having stability at coaching and at QB has enabled them to expand that repertoire through the years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simpleman Posted September 18, 2016 Author Share Posted September 18, 2016 (edited) I stopped right after you used the Patriots as your example when in fact the Patriots have been pretty stable at head coach for a while now - haven't they? Poor choice of examples to try and make your point with. You shot yourself in the foot there. You just in fact shot yourself in the foot admitting you didn't even bother to read my post. If you had read, and were able to comprehend, you would have read that it was not about stability, but about the the ability to adapt, adjust rapidly, being flexible, making an effort,and having a catalog of available practiced plays to choose from to create a weekly game plan. Something that the Patriots do. You might have thought, "Maybe that is why the Patriots have been so successful for so long and their coach has been there so long, because those qualities contribute to winning. Winning coaches tend to stay longer than losing coaches. Of course it also helps to have a QB like Brady,lol. But success is more than just about a winning offense, ask Denver. Edited September 18, 2016 by simpleman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted September 18, 2016 Share Posted September 18, 2016 You just in fact shot yourself in the foot admitting you didn't even bother to read my post. If you had read, and were able to comprehend, you would have read that it was not about stability, but about the the ability to adapt, adjust rapidly, being flexible, making an effort,and having a catalog of available practiced plays to choose from to create a weekly game plan. Something that the Patriots do. You might have thought, "Maybe that is why the Patriots have been so successful for so long and their coach has been there so long, because those qualities contribute to winning. Winning coaches tend to stay longer than losing coaches. Of course it also hopes to have a QB like Brady,lol. But the Patriot success is more than just about a winning offense, ask Denver. I did read your post, and your contention is not well supported by choosing as your example a franchise that's had the same HC for 16 years and the same starting QB for 14 of those. That is the ultimate stability, and you simply can't construct a viable argument that "stability doesn't matter, flexibility and adjustment do" without separating them out in some manner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simpleman Posted September 18, 2016 Author Share Posted September 18, 2016 You do realize that in selecting the Pats** as an example against the "supreme importance of coaching stability", you have chosen one of the longest-tenured head coaches in NFL history (16 years)? I think the principle you're getting at is encapsulated by the saying "consistancy: it's only a virtue if you're not a screw-up" Moreover, it's not true that you see a completely different Patriots** team for different opponents. Yes, Bill Belichek** does tailor his approach to the opponents weaknesses and make good in-game adjustments. But the Pats** have a repertoire of things they do well, and they do them consistently. Having stability at coaching and at QB has enabled them to expand that repertoire through the years. That is exactly what I am stating, that it is not stability at coaching that is most important. It is exactly those qualities that is most important. And as you mentioned, once you have those qualities. you then have the luxury of building on them. But you need those qualities first and foremost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick the Greek Posted September 18, 2016 Share Posted September 18, 2016 (edited) Cam Cameron was the coach of the Dolphins when they went 1-15. He was fired after 1 year. Sprorano steps in and takes the fish to the playoffs. That's not consistency. Rex Ryan was 4-12 with the Jets his last year (can you believe we hired a guy who was coming off a 4-12 season?) Bowles steps in and the Jets are 10-6.. Yea yea they missed the playoffs, but 10-6 is a good record. That's another example of "consistency". Edited September 18, 2016 by Idandria Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2020 Our Year For Sure Posted September 18, 2016 Share Posted September 18, 2016 Moreover, it's not true that you see a completely different Patriots** team for different opponents. Yes, Bill Belichek** does tailor his approach to the opponents weaknesses and make good in-game adjustments. But the Pats** have a repertoire of things they do well, and they do them consistently. Having stability at coaching and at QB has enabled them to expand that repertoire through the years. I think offensively NE* has a lot of staples they go to, defensively they're more about taking away what the opponent does best. You have to be able to win games different kinds of ways in the NFL. If a Jim Schwartz or another 4-man-rush DC has injuries up front or for whatever reason his front 4 isn't getting it done by themselves, he needs to know how to bring additional rushers and vary his coverages, he can't just keep playing standard wide-9, rushing the same 4 guys every snap when its not working. You have to have the versatility to say 'the hell with what I usually do,' and for a day, coach like you have a different name. The same goes for someone like Roman who wants to run as much as possible and limit passing attempts. On a day where either the run is stymied or the defense falters and you're down multiple scores, you have to have west coast concepts you can turn to that substitute for a running game, and your players need to be prepared for that flexibility. Compared to someone like Sean Payton, Greg Roman is half a coordinator. He's the part of Payton that wants to go power run and play action, grind out wins, but doesn't have the part that goes run n shoot and wins through the air when that becomes necessary. No matter what philosophy a team approaches the game with (outscore the opponent vs. grind it out) there are going to be days where it doesn't go according to script and you need to do the opposite. It sounds simple but it isn't always so easy to find a coordinator who is prepared to scrap what he does, who truly has his guys prepared for anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BUFFALOKIE Posted September 18, 2016 Share Posted September 18, 2016 Consistency and flexibility are not the same thing. Although, one without the other doesn't mean much either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PolishDave Posted September 18, 2016 Share Posted September 18, 2016 (edited) You just in fact shot yourself in the foot admitting you didn't even bother to read my post. If you had read, and were able to comprehend, you would have read that it was not about stability, but about the the ability to adapt, adjust rapidly, being flexible, making an effort,and having a catalog of available practiced plays to choose from to create a weekly game plan. Something that the Patriots do. You might have thought, "Maybe that is why the Patriots have been so successful for so long and their coach has been there so long, because those qualities contribute to winning. Winning coaches tend to stay longer than losing coaches. Of course it also helps to have a QB like Brady,lol. But success is more than just about a winning offense, ask Denver. I did finish reading it dude. And I get the point you were trying to make. But what you said there is that good coaches make adjustments for each game depending on the team. Of course they do. Every team does. Some are good at it - like the Patriots. Some suck at it. And many, many of them - over think it. You are acting like the Patriots present a completely different team each week which is actually total B.S. You misinterpreted what the Miami coach was trying to say. The Patriots have been making hay with the same plays on offense for many, many years now. In fact, the difference between the Patriots and a lot of other teams' offenses is that the Patriots execute many of the same plays over and over and over again with precision. If you have watched them over the years then you must have already seen this. It is pretty obvious. They are just damn good at executing a core suite of plays. And teams can't stop them from doing it. That is how they succeed. They don't come out and play a different game every week. That is nonsense. In fact, what you are describing as "what good teams should be doing" are what it seems like the Bills try to do every week. They try to throw new strategies out there hoping they will work instead of focusing on a core suite of things they do very well. That is why the Bills are so damn unpredictable and you never know what you are going to get. Edited September 18, 2016 by PolishDave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted September 18, 2016 Share Posted September 18, 2016 That is exactly what I am stating, that it is not stability at coaching that is most important. It is exactly those qualities that is most important. And as you mentioned, once you have those qualities. you then have the luxury of building on them. But you need those qualities first and foremost. No, it is not exactly what you are stating. Agree or disagree, but don't cherry-pick points from my post to support your theory. You can not choose the current performance of one of the most stable coaching-QB franchises in NFL history to support a contention that stability doesn't matter. You need to pick a franchise where the HC has only been there 1-2 season and they are noted for being exceptionally flexible and varied in their approach, or go back and look at what was said of the Patriots in 2000 or 2001. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simpleman Posted September 18, 2016 Author Share Posted September 18, 2016 I did read your post, and your contention is not well supported by choosing as your example a franchise that's had the same HC for 16 years and the same starting QB for 14 of those. That is the ultimate stability, and you simply can't construct a viable argument that "stability doesn't matter, flexibility and adjustment do" without separating them out in some manner. I will not get into the debate of what comes first, the chicken or the egg. Success breeds stability, stability breeds success. I used the recent mention of the Patriots by this weeks opponent as an example of how NFL coaches view the value the flexibility, not as an endorsement of the Patriots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed_Formerly_of_Roch Posted September 18, 2016 Share Posted September 18, 2016 Yes but the things below rarely will work without consistency so you don't have to spend time each week learning new basics, you can concentrate on wrinkles instead. You just in fact shot yourself in the foot admitting you didn't even bother to read my post. If you had read, and were able to comprehend, you would have read that it was not about stability, but about the the ability to adapt, adjust rapidly, being flexible, making an effort,and having a catalog of available practiced plays to choose from to create a weekly game plan. Something that the Patriots do. You might have thought, "Maybe that is why the Patriots have been so successful for so long and their coach has been there so long, because those qualities contribute to winning. Winning coaches tend to stay longer than losing coaches. Of course it also helps to have a QB like Brady,lol. But success is more than just about a winning offense, ask Denver. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freddie's Dead Posted September 18, 2016 Share Posted September 18, 2016 When you picked the wrong guy, you picked the wrong guy. The mavens of continuity who were all over this board at the end of last season are nowhere to be found now. I think we all realize now that Ryan is the wrong guy, and the sooner the Bills realize that and start anew, the better off we are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pneumonic Posted September 18, 2016 Share Posted September 18, 2016 It's bizarre and odd that you picked the Patriots - the ultimate current example of coaching stability and the success that such stability breeds - to argue against the importance of having such stability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2020 Our Year For Sure Posted September 18, 2016 Share Posted September 18, 2016 They are here. They've just changed their tune pretty quickly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PlayoffsPlease Posted September 18, 2016 Share Posted September 18, 2016 This is the stupidest issue in all of sports. Success results in continuity. Teams don't fire winning coaches and players. Continuity does not make an inept coach or GM good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KOKBILLS Posted September 18, 2016 Share Posted September 18, 2016 I think I can summarize this pretty easily... Stability means nothing if your HC sucks... I think Mike Schopp pretty much nailed the Rex-factor this week when he (basically) said we're supposed to believe Rex is great, and Rex's brother is great not based on results, but based upon the fact that Rex says so... The Bills could very well blow the next hire too...But whenever Rex is sent packing, it won't be soon enough... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apuszczalowski Posted September 18, 2016 Share Posted September 18, 2016 The very top of the Patriots Coaching staff, and some of the lower ranked guys have stayed the same, but they have been through a few different co-ordinators over the years that you can't say the coaching staff is always consistent. problem with being good is that it also leaads to other teams poaching guys from your staff to take over on their teams. But with the HC being consistent, that usually means the philosophies and styles of play are consistent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted September 18, 2016 Share Posted September 18, 2016 What a fail of original post Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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