Owners met with players WITHOUT Rex before Roman let go

[John from Riverside]

I disagree. The FO remembers that the former Bills DC Mike Pettine was a Rex Ryan disciple who worked for the Jets as DC under Ryan before coming to Buffalo and he ran a one-gap 3-4 in 2013. I'm positive that the owners, Russ Brandon and Doug Whaley all thought they were getting another one-gap scheme coach much like Pettine was in Buffalo and like Wade Phillips or they simply wouldn't have hired Rex Ryan as HC. They didn't think they would need to retool the defense to fit Ryan's needs! It appears the man can't get anything other than his 3-4 to work and even then unless he has specific players it won't work.

 

Remember his words that he had never had this much talent on a defense before. This was the reason why Ryan attempted to run Schwartz's wide nine and the 4-3 quite a bit but the majority of the time he ran a two-gap run-stopping scheme that hamstrung the high priced pass rushers on that vaunted Bills D-line from 2014. The Bills D- linemen were more suited for all out rushing the passer and Ryan had them running gap control and dropping into pass coverage. In effect, he simply screwed up the best defense the team has had in a decade. Now he has the team drafting different players to fit his antiquated 3-4 two-gap scheme that few NFL teams run and it's what got his brother fired in New Orleans for running.

 

The thing is it takes no big change to the Bills roster to run a 3-4 one-gap except adding more linebackers. Jerry Hughes would be a perfect fit as would Mario if all he was asked to do is rush the passer, except he wasn't asked to rush the passer and instead was asked to cover two gaps!!

I dont agree with you much.....but there is so much truth to this in my opinion.

 

To take it one step further....I think front office thought they were getting the Pettine defense WITH THE ADDITION OF RUN STOP......as Rex defenses have been good against the run......basically getting the understudy's high sack defense plus the master's final ingredients of run stop.

 

Do we blame the front office for thinking this way? I certainly would have put that 2 and 2 together.

 

I along with everyone else am really unhappy about the way that turned out

[Mr. WEO]

I think a lot of people mistake Terry Pegula's humility and soft spoken manner.

 

The man made billions in the gas and oil industry. He got over on a lot of cutthroat, driven, sharp businessmen who could only dream of that type of success.

 

It's worth remembering. He will get it right.

 

He had been the owner for a couple months when Marrone quit.

 

Big deal, Jimmy Haslam made billions getting over on (ripping off) hundreds of thousands of truckers and many sharp trucking company owners.

 

He still hasn't gotten it right.

 

Being a smart businessman in a business other than pro football doesn't mean much in this league, unfortunately.

Edited September 19, 2016 by Mr. WEO

[Boatdrinks]

I disagree. The FO remembers that the former Bills DC Mike Pettine was a Rex Ryan disciple who worked for the Jets as DC under Ryan before coming to Buffalo and he ran a one-gap 3-4 in 2013. I'm positive that the owners, Russ Brandon and Doug Whaley all thought they were getting another one-gap scheme coach much like Pettine was in Buffalo and like Wade Phillips or they simply wouldn't have hired Rex Ryan as HC. They didn't think they would need to retool the defense to fit Ryan's needs! It appears the man can't get anything other than his 3-4 to work and even then unless he has specific players it won't work.

 

Remember his words that he had never had this much talent on a defense before. This was the reason why Ryan attempted to run Schwartz's wide nine and the 4-3 quite a bit but the majority of the time he ran a two-gap run-stopping scheme that hamstrung the high priced pass rushers on that vaunted Bills D-line from 2014. The Bills D- linemen were more suited for all out rushing the passer and Ryan had them running gap control and dropping into pass coverage. In effect, he simply screwed up the best defense the team has had in a decade. Now he has the team drafting different players to fit his antiquated 3-4 two-gap scheme that few NFL teams run and it's what got his brother fired in New Orleans for running.

 

The thing is it takes no big change to the Bills roster to run a 3-4 one-gap except adding more linebackers. Jerry Hughes would be a perfect fit as would Mario if all he was asked to do is rush the passer, except he wasn't asked to rush the passer and instead was asked to cover two gaps!!

 

You have your theory and I have mine. I can't believe an NFL team , owners , FO personnel etc. could possibly buy orange juice by mistake because they thought they were buying apple juice . Just doesn't seem believeable that they would not have talked extensively about what kind of defense would be run. Mario Williams is perfectly capable of playing in Rex 's scheme . He is a physical specimen , a monster. He just doesn't want to do it. Too much dirty work for him. His scheme worked fine to get a few teams to the playoffs and even beat the Pats in the playoffs. That's the same Pats offense they run now. Anyway, if the Pegulas were so concerned about the defense getting screwed up they would have hired Shwartz or insisted he sat as DC. They obviously weren't. If they had, I would have no problem with it. Seems like a more practical approach. Keep the D. Fix the O. I have no idea why they didn't.

[jimmy10]

 

You know damn well that nothing is ever debunked on the internet.

So what you're saying is... everything is actually bunked on the Internet?

[#34fan]

Rex deserved it... But so do the Pegulas for letting Jim Schwartz walk... That move was the OPPOSITE of the gift that keeps on giving...

[Nihilarian]

You have your theory and I have mine. I can't believe an NFL team , owners , FO personnel etc. could possibly buy orange juice by mistake because they thought they were buying apple juice . Just doesn't seem believeable that they would not have talked extensively about what kind of defense would be run. Mario Williams is perfectly capable of playing in Rex 's scheme . He is a physical specimen , a monster. He just doesn't want to do it. Too much dirty work for him. His scheme worked fine to get a few teams to the playoffs and even beat the Pats in the playoffs. That's the same Pats offense they run now. Anyway, if the Pegulas were so concerned about the defense getting screwed up they would have hired Shwartz or insisted he sat as DC. They obviously weren't. If they had, I would have no problem with it. Seems like a more practical approach. Keep the D. Fix the O. I have no idea why they didn't.

When they hired Ryan they all thought they were getting a better version of Mike Pettine. No way do they hire Ryan if they knew they would need to retool the defensive line they gave three players 100 million dollar contracts to rush the passer!!. The owners, the GM, the team president were all fooled by a can man who only knows how to one specific scheme.

 

First, you need to learn the difference between the 3-4 one-gap and two-gap schemes to understand that neither Marcell Dareus nor Mario Williams would work well in a two-gap scheme. It's why Dareus was complaining about it from the start of training camp last year and then after a few games, Mario started complaining too. Mario hated that two-gap scheme.

 

To give a basic explanation between the two schemes. A one-gap scheme utilizes a 3-4 and the front 3 D-linemen pick a gap to rush the passer and the linebacker behind them then takes the other gap between the offensive linemen. This scheme doesn't require a big overhaul to the lineman or linebackers because you want speed players like Mario, Kyle Williams and, Hughes.

 

In a two-gap 3-4, the D-linemen need to stay in position to take on the opposing offensive blocker to control two gaps on either side of their linemen. Meanwhile, instead of rushing the passer the linemen need to wait to see what direction the offense is going in so there is very little pass rush unless a blitzer is being sent. The two-gap is an older scheme that is better at stopping the run and usually requires bigger, stronger D-linemen to be able to handle the 325+lb O-linemen they are required to wrestle.

 

Mario is 6'6'' 290 lbs and the very last thing he wants to do is wrestle a 300lb O-linemen and in Schwartz's wide nine he lined up outside the OT so he could simply run by him. Not only was it stupid to ask Mario to play in a two-gap it was even more moronic to ask Jerry Hughes to do it at 6'2'' 252lbs. Then, Mario was also complaining about being dropped into pass coverage so often.

 

READ THIS! http://www.sbnation.com/2015/10/21/9581575/mario-williams-marcell-dareus-rex-ryan-buffalo-bills-defense

 

"Well, it seems like Rex Ryan is suddenly determined to put square pegs into round holes by putting his scheme over talent, at least he was Sunday. We know that the Bills have four dominant defensive linemen who fit best in an attacking 4-3 scheme. However, Ryan has mostly been a 3-4 guy as a head coach.

 

Instead of putting his best players in the best positions to not only be successful and productive, Ryan seems to be clinging to his 3-4 roots a bit too fiercely and holding them back. While the Bills lined up 19 times in either an over or under alignment (4-3) against the Bengals, they lined up in a base version of a 3-4 defense 22 times (those numbers do not include third-down plays).

I'm not a math major, but I'm pretty sure 22 is more than 19.

It's much worse than just Ryan having his best pass rushers dropping into coverage too much rather than actually, yanno, pass rushing.

One edge guy, either Williams or Hughes, generally gets to stand up and either set the edge/pass rush on the edge or drop into coverage when they line up in a base 3-4. The other edge rusher often has to line up on the offensive tackle rather than being on an edge. That's pretty much the opposite of an ideal situation for most highly skilled pass rushers.

"Even having Mario Williams, a human cheat code with his ridiculous combination of size, strength and athletic ability, two-gapping an offensive tackle is a pretty dumb thing to do on a regular basis because it's obvious he doesn't like doing it! I greatly admire Williams' game, but he's just not that guy who wants to be lined up head-up and wrestle with a 300-pounder all game."

 

That lame two-gap scheme is the biggest reason the team went from #2 in the NFL in sacks in 2013 under Mike Pettine. #1 in the NFL in sacks under Jim Schwartz in 2014 to 31st in sacks in 2015 under Ryan. Plus the 2015 Bills were dead last in QB pressures. Sure, Mario, Hughes, and Dareus can play in it because they are pro's. But they all hated it because it killed their ability to rush the passer and the reason they were getting those big $$$$!

[The Frankish Reich]

 

Big deal, Jimmy Haslam made billions getting over on (ripping off) hundreds of thousands of truckers and many sharp trucking company owners.

 

He still hasn't gotten it right.

 

Being a smart businessman in a business other than pro football doesn't mean much in this league, unfortunately.

Trump never won the USFL title with the New Jersey Generals (a real USFL team even though it sounds like the Globetrotters famous opponent)